Prices

[Couger]

Is it just me or are Esprit prices, most notibly early Stevens models, dropping lately

[s4simon]

Dunno about dropping, cos last week I saw an early ('93) S4 advertised at the evil place for

[Couger]

Dunno about dropping, cos last week I saw an early ('93) S4 advertised at the evil place for

[Mark Blanchard]

Prices of the Stevens are all over the place. Some are going for

[WayneB]

Are you on about the asking price of the Esprits, or the actual price the owner takes to sell the car? If they are not moving, the price will go down(in order to sell), sorry!

[Couger]

Are you on about the asking price of the Esprits, or the actual price the owner takes to sell the car? If they are not moving, the price will go down(in order to sell), sorry!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes the actual price people are willing to sell them for... Ive had a few disscusions with owners of cars for sale, and some not even up for sale.. and they all seem very flexible and willing to negotiate,down a`long way from the asking price, there is the odd one or two who just wont budge, but there cars have been up for sale for over a year on some sites, its great for a potential buyer I suppose but not too good for the Esprit in the long term.

[WayneB]

Ian, the problem the X180 is suffering from(at the moment) is that it is too old to be current and trendy, but not old enough to be regarded as a classic. Most cars go through this phase ,the Esprit Turbo is no exception. Values should start to rise again in about 5 yrs. on that model(in my opinion) Now is probably a great time to buy any model Esprit!

[Loose Cannon]

Ian

I'd not noticed that the market was "crashing" until a few people mentioned it the last few days! I think most of the trouble is there has been a lack of really nice cars for sale, especially 4-potters; its a different world to just a few years ago.

Must admit I had always wondered what would happen when the V8s started to depreciate, after all most people will percieve the 4 pots to be the poor relation, and the V8s can't maintain a premium for too long as buyers in that segment move on to Sagaris's and Nobles. I've always believed that there are enthusiasts who buy cars they love no matter what, and new-car buyers, who eventually move on to the next thing. As Wayne says the Stephens stuff is going through the "black hole" the Giugiaro cars went through before becoming proper classics. At least there are people like us to nurse them through this difficult patch! Pity other more prosaic cars, still worthy of design and concept, whose numbers and image are decimated by eventually being "chav-chariots".

[nicksoldies]

Was this posted by a F*****i owner or something. Talk about doing the marque down. I've never heard such bollocks in my all life. Lots of early Esprits are purchased by dreamers who wouldn't know a good one if it run them over, then they try to run them on a shoestring. Worse still, they think they know better than Colin Chapman and the Lotus factory so they decide to modify them to "improve performance". Result, a high mileage, badly maintained, non standard piece of shit which they can no longer keep funding, so they try to unload it to some other dreamer for whatever they can get. The result is Esprits on offer which seem cheap because that's what they're worth. Unmaintained tired old examples, mostly altered from standard by varying degrees, they need a fortune spending on them to bring them back to something like desireable. Start going and actually viewing what's on offer and you will soon find that for cheap money, all you can buy is a piece of crap. My local dealer, who doesn't sell crap, has increased his asking prices steadily recently, and he still sells all he can get. Look for a good low mileage example with a service history and low mileage and see if the price has dropped on that. It really pisses me to see people trying to do the Esprit down. I thought the practice of undervaluing them had stopped now that CL has allowed the dealers to value them, but it appears I'm wrong. Go look what they're asking for other mostly inferior marques and realise your car, if it's a nice one, is already undervalued. A 308 which is happily rusting away, has completed at least it's it's second restoration, will be offered for at least

[Couger]

Was this posted by a F*****i owner or something. Talk about doing the marque down. I've never heard such bollocks in my all life. Lots of early Esprits are purchased by dreamers who wouldn't know a good one if it run them over, then they try to run them on a shoestring. Worse still, they think they know better than Colin Chapman and the Lotus factory so they decide to modify them to "improve performance".  Result, a high mileage, badly maintained, non standard piece of shit which they can no longer keep funding, so they try to unload it to some other dreamer for whatever they can get. The result is Esprits on offer which seem cheap because that's what they're worth. Unmaintained tired old examples, mostly altered from standard by varying degrees, they need a fortune spending on them to bring them back to something like desireable. Start going and actually viewing what's on offer and you will soon find that for cheap money, all you can buy is a piece of crap. My local dealer, who doesn't sell crap, has increased his asking prices steadily recently, and he still sells all he can get. Look for a good low mileage example with a service history and low mileage and see if the price has dropped on that. It really pisses me to see people  trying to do the Esprit down. I thought the practice of undervaluing  them had stopped now that CL has allowed the dealers to value them, but it appears I'm wrong. Go look what they're asking for other mostly inferior marques and realise your car, if it's a nice one, is already undervalued. A 308 which is happily rusting away,  has completed at least it's it's second restoration, will be offered for at least

[DanR]

...Was this posted by a F*****i owner or something... if you can't say anything positive about the Esprit, don't say anything at all...

Sorry Nick I can't agree with this part of your post. As for the rest, fine. There will always be both positive and negative issues about anything. And we all should be able to comment, discuss and learn from each other regardless of our individual views. I'll get off the soapbox now, dinner's calling.

[scoule]

>>Nick I do not own a Ferrari because I cant afford one, and that prob goes for a few Esprit owners....

And those who could, probably don't want one or they wouldn't be on this board :-)

If you think Esprit prices are low, checkout Excel prices ... absolute bargains, they had the same 180bhp N/A engine and a toyota gearbox that doesn't break. It's probably the most reliable car Lotus ever made .. so they stopped making it!

[Advantage]

I wish Sport 350 prices would fall to about

[scoule]

>>I wish Sport 350 prices would fall to about

[WayneB]

Nick, I have been fortunate enough to own a few cars that have actually risen in value markedley in the period I have owned them. None of them were bought because I thought this would happen, I just liked the cars.As I have said before on this forum, that the Esprit is THE Exotic car bargain(at the moment). I bought my car relitively cheap(one of the poorly maintained examples you speak about) and have put alot of time and money into it. I have a few freinds that own Ferraris, and not one of them has critisised or insulted my car, to the contary they all like it!F.Y.I. Ferrari also has some cars that are the kiss of death as far as value goes( 308GT4, Mondial8, 330GT2+2) As far as your comments on the mods go, once you own it you can do what you like to it (for better or worse) It would be a Really dull world if everyone owned a white 1983 Turbo Esprit like mine............

[ukrocketcar]

hello,

Esprit is a very rare gt and with a extrem rare higth pedigree signed "B.C. Chapman"but a lot of them have been not well follow.

I think that if we have a good example, maintained in hight level : motor...+paint+inside, and all Esprit of the forum are or will be like that the price of each of one will be higher more and more and.... imagine if China become crazy about this truly fantastic Lotus gt as Japan with Europe Painters......A question in Pekin is it a Lotus Dealer!

[Guest esprit geoff]

Well - looking at prices I think the Turbo SE is going up in value, there are very few around at the moment as well. But there is cheap stuff out there but that can merely mean that they're dogs!

Lotus cars have always suffered high depreciation, it's only when they're much older and become true classics that prices stabilize, look at the old Elan. The Excel and later Elan are now suffering. But at the end of the day, cars are never an investment.

Geoff.

[Couger]

Well - looking at prices I think the Turbo SE is going up in value, there are very few around at the moment as well. But there is cheap stuff out there but that can merely mean that they're dogs!

Lotus cars have always suffered high depreciation, it's only when they're much older and become true classics that prices stabilize, look at the old Elan. The Excel and later Elan are now suffering. But at the end of the day, cars are never an investment.

Geoff.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I dont subscribe to this being the only reason a car is cheap, there is lots of reasons, owners are skint... they need a family car.. etc etc.. you know all the usual reasons, I do agree the SE seems to be holding its own, although they are still all for sale... eg the pacific blue one on LEW, it ticks all the boxes but its been on a while now

[rocket63]

I dont subscribe to this being the only reason a car is cheap, there is lots of reasons, owners are skint... they need a family car.. etc etc.. you know all the usual reasons, I do agree the SE seems to be holding its own, although they are still all for sale... eg the pacific blue one on LEW, it ticks all the boxes but its been on a while now

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I do not believe the market has changed that much. Having spent a considerable amount of time looking for a decent Esprit to purchase, its apparent, I believe, that prices for cars of similar age will fluctuate wildly. The proof of the pudding or asking price is generally dependent on what you see physically when you go look at a car. Perhaps its not so much what it is worth, but how much will you have to spend on it to realise the condition, mechanically and asthetically to meet your own expectations. Thats the difficult part. Correction. Thats the expensive part

[Guest Troy Halliday]

I nought my S3 cheap,

[pitstoppete]

Was this posted by a F*****i owner or something. Talk about doing the marque down. I've never heard such bollocks in my all life. Lots of early Esprits are purchased by dreamers who wouldn't know a good one if it run them over, then they try to run them on a shoestring. Worse still, they think they know better than Colin Chapman and the Lotus factory so they decide to modify them to "improve performance".  Result, a high mileage, badly maintained, non standard piece of shit which they can no longer keep funding, so they try to unload it to some other dreamer for whatever they can get. The result is Esprits on offer which seem cheap because that's what they're worth. Unmaintained tired old examples, mostly altered from standard by varying degrees, they need a fortune spending on them to bring them back to something like desireable. Start going and actually viewing what's on offer and you will soon find that for cheap money, all you can buy is a piece of crap. My local dealer, who doesn't sell crap, has increased his asking prices steadily recently, and he still sells all he can get. Look for a good low mileage example with a service history and low mileage and see if the price has dropped on that. It really pisses me to see people  trying to do the Esprit down. I thought the practice of undervaluing  them had stopped now that CL has allowed the dealers to value them, but it appears I'm wrong. Go look what they're asking for other mostly inferior marques and realise your car, if it's a nice one, is already undervalued. A 308 which is happily rusting away,  has completed at least it's it's second restoration, will be offered for at least

[USAndretti42]

I have already modified mine form standard. I have Poly Bushes because they last longer.I have uprated the suspension so that I can adjust the ride to suit my needs. I have uprated the brakes because as most people pointed out the Esprit brakes are not very good. I have uprated my cooling system because their is a damn site more trafic on the road today than there was 22 years ago. I have ugraded my clutch hose beacuse Lotus in their devine wisdom put a shit piece of plastic that swells when it gets hot into our cars in the first place. 

I could continue on for quite a while on upgrades/updates that I have done or am doing. My car will still look like an original Esprit and the things that I have changed can be swoped back. I have in fact kept all of the parts that I have changed so that if the next owner wants an out of the factory car then they can put it all back on again.

The reason for these changes are simple I love Esprits and want to enjoy mine for as long as I can without the short sited, money pinching problems that were built into the car. I want a car to drive not to bring out on Sunday and polish so I have tried to rectify some of the problems that time has taught us.

My pet hate is 'thats not original spec' so that kind of remark really chafes my nipples! So sorry for the rant I'm putting the soap box away now. We are all individuals and as such our wants and needs are different,  respect it, don't attack it.

...............soap box secured. Deep breath ................and exhale. Ahhhhhhhhhh

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, Troy. What set that off. I agree with what you say. I can't style cars better than Giugiaro and I can't set up the suspension better than the Lotus engineers so I don't fiddle with the styling or suspension. If I can make my car more reliable, though, I do.

BUT, if I did want to add spoilers or change the wheels and tyres, well it's my car and I can take the consequences, including people's complaints about the descration of their cars.

[Guest Troy Halliday]

I think it may have been the "non standard pieces of shit" comment.

But who knows its been a bad week at my end what with work and the engine in my mates Lotus Seven Kit Car snaping a piston rod sending pieces of the block flying all over the country side. And guess who has got to rebuild it! Yep thats more time out of getting my S3 back on the road

Like I said bad week.

[gpz900r]

I note that a lot of people will search Ebay for matching car prices and at the end of the day a lot of the examples on ebay are rather (and not all) upset models that are being ditched, but then at the end of the day there is another way of looking at this. Some owners who buy the tatty ones are busying away producing much better cars at the end of the work, mine for example was a nightmare and after months of time she is the dream I allways wanted. Thing is, now its all fixed and running perfect im a bit bored, I have to confess that I have enjoyed sorting out mine as driving it. Think I might get a dogish S3 next and give myself another challenge.......

Its all part of the fun and I think you have to go through bit of a "bonding" with your car.

Small steps everyday make the car better in every way

[Paul C]

Thing is, now its all fixed and running perfect im a bit bored...

Drive it!

All fixed and running perfect!

Never been able to truthfully

say that of my Esprits at any

time...

You lucky man, revel in your time!