delco brakes get them working successfully and well

[dodge1979]

Sorry I missed it

[philip600]

Hi Darren, are you any closer with regards the cost & availability of this new switch. I'm having problems with mine again & I'm keen to get it sorted. I did send a PM but appreciate you will be busy.

Kind regards, Phil.

[OwenGT3]

Recently because of one of my replacement abs switches going wrong, I refitted the Esprits original abs switch. I gave it a usual clean before fitting and for a while it's behaved all right until last Monday. The switch started doing it's favourite, causing the motor relay to chatter, so I knew it was time for another clean.

 

Although I have a new replacement switch for my two switch set up, I didn't want to refitted this set up until the weekend and in day light, so I thought I would just give the old original switch another clean as it's not a major job to remove and refit. In the process of refitting once I had cleaned the switch I was tightening it up using my usual method of a big single sided socket, but on the final tightening the switch had finally had enough and broke into two parts.

 

The now broken switch presented another headache of removing the body of the switch still in the abs unit, but long story short I was able to remove it with some vice grips and freeing the abs unit from it's mounts to allow me to get easy access to the switch area. With the now broken original switch removed from the abs body unit, I fitted the new two switch system so it wasn't sitting with nothing in the unit. All I need to do it set the pressures, which I will do at the weekend.

 

Although the old switch is now useless, I thought I would see what's actually in the switch, so took it to work today and got the cable connector end steel body part machined off on a lathe. The picture below is all the component parts of the switch, with parts number 7 and 11 being the two parts that separated.

 

 

 

Seeing inside the switch now I personally can't see why the switch problem is as big as it is. yes I know they are not available, but the switch looking at it is a very simple design and I can't understand why its proving difficult to replicate. Parts 1 to 7 being the contacts and 8 to 11 being the pressure side in-contact with the brake fluid. I don't see parts 1 to 7  being the problem area of the switch, 8 to 11 are, especially 10 and 11, the plunger that operates it all in the body part 11.

 

The picture of the parts are cleaned up parts, but when part 10 was first removed from part 11 it was not clean, coated in a film built up over the years, so I could see why it would stick and cause problems. Talking with another engineer at work I've decided I'm not going to waste the old switch, but instead utilise the parts and create a new switch from the old one. The plan is to design a new body for the switch for most of the component parts, removing just parts 7 and 11. Even the plunger is in good condition so I see no reason for it not to work in a new body. Luckily I have a good engineering department at work to make the new body.

 

Also the new body will be possible to dismantle after assembly, so if it does work and over time becomes sticky, then it can be cleaned easily. Now I have no original switch to fit to my car and no real proven replacement, I think a switch body replacement seems a realistic possibility. If it works then it could be a cheap and effective alternative to buying expensive multiple switches and at least it's proven to work as it's using original parts. If this works the beauty of this idea is everyone has a switch and the parts required to assemble a new switch, it just needs the new body.

 

I'm going to produce a CAD drawing of the new body so the engineer at work can machine the part. I will let you know how it goes hopefully soon.

Edited October 29, 2014 by OwenGT3

[markw996]

Posts like that are why I like this forum so much

Please do let us know how you get on, I'd love to get my brakes working properly again so I can really enjoy driving again rather than just cruising around leaving huge gaps to the traffic in front

[PaulEspritGT3]

This is excellent Owen, like you I've also fitted the two switch solution but I'd much rather reuse the original switch in the way you're investigating. 

[OwenGT3]

With all my abs switch parts cleaned up, I reassembled the original abs switch today. To retain the contact part to the pressure senor side, the switch now has six grub screws drilled in the side of the main body. Unsure if it will hold, but going to give it a try, also I now have all the measurements required to design the new switch body.

The body will consist of three, maybe four parts. There will be a main body, a screw in disc part to shut off the fluid side after assembly and finally a screw on ring to hold the plastic body to the metal part. The forth part will be the stainless end that you see in the end of the switch. The body will be steel and a flat will be added to tighten it up as the main body will now be round in shape.

I hope to do some of the drawing over the weekend, if this works I don't see myself making hundreds of bodies for people to refurbish thier switch in the future. I will however make the drawing available so its up to the indiviual to decide if they want to get one made and fit to thier car.

[steve lord]

Hi,  I’m new to the forum gust joined today, I had a GT3 last year and it’s been of the road for most of the time I’m hoping to get it on the road this month but the abs tell tale is constantly on. I have found out that when I turn the ignition on it blows the 30A front solenoid fuse which is by the ABS controller. It has the delco system on it. Can anyone help please?

 

[fflyingdog]

Was it a case of that the  'shuttle' part of the switch/valve is sticking in the housing in which it slides ? or a combination of sticking shuttle and a weak contact breaker ? Following this with interest good man Owen.

[OwenGT3]

Was it a case of that the  'shuttle' part of the switch/valve is sticking in the housing in which it slides ? or a combination of sticking shuttle and a weak contact breaker ? Following this with interest good man Owen.

 

As there is not many components in the switch and after examining the parts, I would say it was the shuttle part that's the problem. I can't see the contacts to see if they are pitted from contact arcing, but there is no problem with the movement of the contacts.

 

The shuttle had a coating on the outside, like a build up of fluid grim, which has now been cleaned off. there's also a small nylon washer behind the O ring on the shuttle, that was what looked like damaged and worn, I have now cleaned it up. Also there is a small 1mm hole that goes out to the small O ring on the outside of the switch, a return for the fluid I assume, I made sure this was free so no problems with pressure build up inside the switch.

 

I'm going to have a go at making this new body, it may not work, but anything is worth a try, but when I cleaned the hydraulic side of my switch it always worked for a while before requiring another clean some months later, so to me it seems most problems are on the fluid side, not the contact side.

 

The reason I'm hoping a new body for the old switch works is we all have the parts to build the new switch, also it works. If it is just a sticking shuttle then a new case and the old switch parts cleaned up in the new case, it should perform like a new switch.

 

Anything is worth a try to solve this problem.

Edited November 1, 2014 by OwenGT3

[fflyingdog]

I agree that a build up of grime/film on the shuttle may cause it to stick and simply being able to clean it so it slides without hinderance may be a fix.i cant see properly from the pictures but has the shuttle got a kind of PTFE/nylon back up ring behind the O ring?

 

it may even be a 'split'  which would mean that it puts pressure on the o ring (deliberately)  to cause it to swell and creating and good seal when under pressure. .As you have said ,the contacts look good and the only really moving part is the shuttle  part of the valve.If the shuttle has a glaze on it then simply soaking the part in a de-greasent may not be enough to 'bust' the glaze and a more aggresive form of cleaning may be requires which can only be accomplised by stripping  the unit,i think that all 3 o rings should be replaced as they are probably degraded through age and perhaps even temperature.Looking forward to hearing your results. 

 

 

Nick S4s

[OwenGT3]

Well I got my car back on the road again Sunday with a working abs system. Andy C came over and gave me a hand on Sunday as Saturday I had no luck getting the new switch I purchased to work, I thought it was faulty, but in the end it was me!

 

On Saturday I could not get the new switch to adjust the switching pressure of the accumulator motor regardless of where I set the adjuster screw. I could get the pump to run, but it wouldn't cut out at the correct pressure, so I was beginning to wonder if I had got the right switch rating of operating pressure of 1000 to 3000 psi.

 

On Sunday I found out why I wasn't getting any adjustment, well Andy found out for me. He adjusted the what you would think was the adjustment screw in the top of the switch until it came out, then we discovered it wasn't the actual adjustment screw. The company that supplied the switch fit another grub screw in the top to lock the actual adjusting screw once set, so all my adjustments were the locking screw, no the adjuster underneath.

 

It might sound a silly mistake, but all the other switches I have had didn't have any locking grub screw, plus the travel on the grub screw was so great you would naturally think it was the pressure adjusting screw. needless to say I felt a right idiot, but also pleased the switch was not faulty. After some adjusting the switch works fine and now the pump switches off exactly where I want it to, just around 2700 psi, it also repeated bang on every time.

 

The other pressure switch for the abs warning light was adjusted and both are operating well, I've had no problems of the light going on travelling to work today, I've also removed the gauge and blanked off the end.

 

So if you do buy a switch and have no luck with the screw to adjust the pressure, just screw it all the way out to check it's not just a locking grub screw, it will save you a lot of hassle.

 

I tried my reassembled old switch, but that got no response in the system, so unsure what to do about that now as I don't know what's not working inside the switch, so I will take it apart again.

[ramjet]

Hi,  I’m new to the forum gust joined today, I had a GT3 last year and it’s been of the road for most of the time I’m hoping to get it on the road this month but the abs tell tale is constantly on. I have found out that when I turn the ignition on it blows the 30A front solenoid fuse which is by the ABS controller. It has the delco system on it. Can anyone help please?

 

Steve, if you read through this thread (and there are others as well) you should find most of your answers to how to get to the bottom of things. Espritmon will read the ABS system. You just need a laptop, cable to connect to the car and the software. There are also topics covering everything to do with that as well.

[Marco84]

Hi guys, I think I need to replace my pressure switch.. Any news on new pressure switch?is it available?

Another question..

If the pressure switch is faulty will the pump stop working?

Thanks

[sid1]

Hi Marco,

In my case the switch gots faulty on my 91 SE and the pump did still nothing. I can stop the car, but no assistance and no MOT :-(

Cheers Andre

[Marco84]

Thanks Andre!

[sanj]

Based on the photo you posted in another thread, the relay that turns on the pump is missing from your car, so the pump will never turn on.

[uzz32soarer]

On 5/1/2013 at 08:44, OwenGT3 said:

I've been having issues with my Esprit GT3 abs, started last year. I did the obvious cheap thing first and cleaned the switch, first time went for about four month, but I think the harsh winter just made it play up again. So cleaned it again and this time it's stayed off, only going on once.

 

I did correspond with Steve in Oz regarding the brakes and his abs switch replacement, I finally purchased one last month. Steve has been great with his help regarding the issues with this system. also new switch arrival was within a week, really surprised how little time it took to arrive from half way around the world. I fitted the new switch last week as I felt the brakes weren't working as well as they had done, even though the switch was working and no light on.

 

After fitting the switch, all was ok, but the new switch only highlighted another fault in the system, which I have now hopefully found. With the help of the manual and Andy Clements, plus trying a snap-on diagnostic tool, which didn't work in the end, Andy and I decided a good bleed of the system was required.

 

Andy and I bled the system last Saturday, removed about a litre of fluid, did some further procedures similar to the Tech 1 bleed system and have finally got a good solid brake pedal with the light staying off and the switch operating as it should.

 

The only thing that seems to be a problem now is the accumulator. Before the bleed it ended up pressurising on every press of the pedal, after the bleed it's now gone to every second press of the pedal. So with the light out, the system seems ok apart from how often the pump charges, so I hope a new accumulator will sort that problem and return to the every 3 or 4 pumps before the pump runs.

 

I'm now in the process of trying to find a suitable accumulator for a reasonable price. I've read most threads regarding this item, so it will be either a Jag XJ6 or the Range Rover P38 version. I did also find companies locally that would do a recharge, but as the item is 15 or more years old I don't think this will be worth it as I don't know if the diaphragm is leaking because of age, so didn't want to risk it.

 

The pedal so far is the best it has been for some time. I reckon when I fitted the braid hoses some time back, although I did bleed them well, it wasn't bled as the manual said, so it might be down to that. Again, have to thank Andy for his help, he's a saint and has a good bleed foot! 

 

I don't know how the system is driving as the car is still on axle stands, I'm doing a load of other jobs while it's up on the stands, but will report back when I have fitted the accumulator and given it a good test run.

I'd love the contact details for Steve in Oz if you have them. I'm also in Oz and the pedal on my 1996 S4 is terrible and pulses badly.

[OwenGT3]

35 minutes ago, uzz32soarer said:

I'd love the contact details for Steve in Oz if you have them. I'm also in Oz and the pedal on my 1996 S4 is terrible and pulses badly.

http://www.lotusmarques.com/parts/datasheets/823-esprit-abs-replacement-switch

[uzz32soarer]

Thanks Owen. Didn't even know they existed and less that ten minutes from me.

After reading through all 9 pages here I must say that it's a shame Darren didn't come back with a price for his super LED switch and an accumulator all in one kit. After all the work he put into it, there would have been a great market for a bolt in, two part solution.

Great cars, but mine has a few small issues, clearly the brakes being a major part of it. I've looked at the service books back 11 years and even way back then it was diagnosed that it needed an ABS unit replacement.

I'm trying to get a cable sorted, but everyone I try is out of stock or cant do one any more. I thing Espritmon and a cable is the first tool in the trunk, and then start to sort the ABS issues once I can code read the car.

 

There was a reference to a user named 'internet' or similar that did a cable. Is he still around?

[ramjet]

Welcome to TLF Robert.

You should duck over to the Introductions area and say hi in there as well.  

[sanj]

20 hours ago, uzz32soarer said:

I'm trying to get a cable sorted, but everyone I try is out of stock or cant do one any more. I thing Espritmon and a cable is the first tool in the trunk, and then start to sort the ABS issues once I can code read the car.

I can provide a laptop cable and USB adapter, PM me for details, or visit my website at http://home.earthlink.net/~turboesprit2/bitsforsale.html.

Edited December 3, 2016 by sanj

[Richard123]

I disassembled my switch, but rather than milling off the entire "folded" portion of part #7, I just took off the corners.  Then the 6 tabs can be folded back, switch dismantled, then folded back together.  I did another 1000-1500 kms (say 2 months) on the car before parking it for winter with all brake function good.  (I didn't disassemble the 7 to 11 components).