Elise vs Esprit Public Perception

[mamovaka]

It's funny

I had an 05 ST Elise that I sold for numerous reasons..One of which the car had NO POWER so much so that it was frustrating that such a track oriented car was so ahem.. lacking in the testicles department.. 190 HP.. pathetic..

So I bought a Viper which was totalled (not by me) and I decided to go back to the esprit, I purchased Feffman's here.. In my opinion the Best car of the three in pretty much every way..

However..

It's suprising that I usually got the most "wow how much was that thing" in the little elise.. Seems like Viper's and Esprits don't get the same level of attention..

You guys notice this?

Many of the girls I date thought the Elise was the most expensive car of the bunch, when in reality the new MSRP of the elise is less than HALF that of the Viper/Esprit..

Anyone else share this opinion? Now obviously people in the know with cars will respect.. but I notice a lot of the opposite.. I am assuming it's because the Elise is new and unknown..

[jimmybondi]

Pano,

If you know Chapman's philosophy, you would know that his focus was not on power in the first place. But that is up to personal taste.

All three cars are following 3 different directions, whereas the Viper is the least desireable for me...

But you are right, the Elise is the most appealing one to the female...maybe this is why they rate it so high?

[mamovaka]

Yes of course, Chapman believed that less weight is better than more power..

I am not speaking of Chapman's legacy.. More the fact that the Esprit was the "supercar" of the Lotus Brand in the last 30 years and that the Elise, while very unique and fun.. isn't in that league.. but due to it's exotic styling (I was a victim of it, I purchased it the DAY AFTER I saw it) it gets the looks from the ladies..

Personally I think the Esprit is the timeless looker.. Though I wouldn't mind owning both in my garage..

[karluk29]

your not in the uk are ya pano?

i find here that ppl just think the elise is a normal car but quite funky and has a lotus badge, where as the esprit is more wow look at that. i used to do loads of modded car shows, and the esprit was on stands for companys etc etc, and kids to older ppl loved it as there rare. to make a elise stand out and be noticed you need to do serious work to it.

my best quote so far was by a 40yo bloke who stopped me and asked "wow is that a factory special edition, sorry for asking but i assume its about 50k ish"

everytime i drive it, even to work i would say over 80% of road users stare at it, some dont like it of course thats human nature but most do and want to eithier ask you about it or take a pic.

[jimmybondi]

The best effect that I had in the Elise:

A guy in his Corvette stared at my Elise while approaching a red light...and crashed into the car in front of him...

The best effect in the Esprit (RHD):

Esprit was parked at the gas pump, my GF sitting in the passenger seat. A bimmer pulled up behind it (while I was inside paying the bill) and start honking like crazy...

Edited November 28, 2006 by jimmybondi

[tonyp]

All I can say is that up here in't North I will probably see 2 - 3 Elises everyday. Last saw an Esprit (of any age) 6 months ago. Rarer beasts you see. As for getting looked at, who cares ?

[Mark Blanchard]

. . . the Esprit was the "supercar" of the Lotus Brand in the last 30 years and that the Elise, while very unique and fun.. isn't in that league.. but due to it's exotic styling (I was a victim of it, I purchased it the DAY AFTER I saw it) it gets the looks from the ladies..

I guess most Ladies think the Elise is newer, so it must be better and the wedge shape is a bit naff now. From my experience, most Ladies remember what colour the car was, rather than what make / model it was, or whether it looked old or new (not all mind you, ie the Ladies on this forum. My Wife's seems to appreciate the Esprit too). Most of the Ladies at my work think my car is old and a "Medallion Man's car" and they say "wasn't that the car of Magnum PI." They think the Elise is better because it's "curvy and newer."

[mayevora]

I think you're right right when you say 'curves are more modern' or so the perseption is. Sure Elize is a very curvy car and alot of the ladies like it because of the curves. Same with anybody who has an Audi TT - comments will be, nice car, I like the curves.

However we know best. Angles are still king and long live the wedge!!!!

[iainskea]

Hit and miss opinions from my expirience, Girls (or ladies at my age now - 42), reminisce about my car and some boyfriend years ago...and say they love the car (or what they did in it more like).

Same 'girls' went all giggles over a firecracker red elise three streets away from where I live - go figure.

Like anyone knows what they really think anyway!

Iain

[Mark Blanchard]

However we know best. Angles are still king and long live the wedge!!!!

Yea, The Wedge Rules!

Here's the ultimate wedge: (Just a cheap excuse to show the Carabo again).

[Jussi]

Haven't seen Elises around here Maybe cause there's only one in here

I saw my first Elise at Factory tour and when I came back home one of the first things I told to Heli was: Now I really want one. Allright it's a small car but still it's fun looking car (and I like small cars)

[docf]

One thing about the elise.. that toyota motor/tranny can be purchased in a junkyard for $500 and there is a goldmine of aftermarket performance parts for it. You can also easily swap in the old 2.0 turbo from the mr2 and celica all-trac for < $5000 parts and labor. I met a couple of owners at a local drag strip pushing over 300hp in daily driven cars.. it is a toyota powerplant after all.

As far as the girls thing.. I have a nice comfy mercedes for dates which has a smooth ride, doesnt stink of hydrocarbons in various states of combustion, doesnt rattle and shudder driving over nyc potholes, and lets me devote my attention to something other than keeping the car on the road and not grinding gears. Besides.. my car has a terrible jealous streak and punishes me in very expensive ways whenever I let another woman come between us.

[mamovaka]

Yes but it's painfully powerless..

I remember reading the performance figues that lotus released.. and Car and Driver even accomplished a 4.4 to 60.. with a warranty voiding clutch drop! without dropping the clutch I am un able to get any faster than a 5.6 0-60 on the elise.. sorry but for a car that costs as much as a corvette or boxster S should be below 5 0-60..

Then I bought the car, a gorgeous Storm Titanium Loaded Elise for 50k plus and had my ASS handed to me by pretty much everyone on the road..Including a Dodge Charger SRT 8! (embarassing)

I know I know.. these cars are made for the track.. they are fun and handle extremely well.. but if ANY car needed a turbo/supercharger.. it is the Elise..

The car has the super hot looks, it has the badge.. it just lacks power in such a big bad way I can't believe Lotus was serious with this..

Then then release the Exige S, WOW 30 more HP and TORQUE.. You Still need to drop the clutch at 5k rpm to get 4.1 0-60.. and the quarter mile is STILL 13.00..

It's just piss poor for the money when you can get a corvette that can do 4.2 to 60 and 12.4 QM without any clutch dropping..

Yes I know it's not about straight line acceleration.. regardless.. this car needs 280hp at least in my eyes.. and I don't want to turbocharge the car.. I want it to have that from the factory..

I love the car every time I see one I miss my elise.. but I would rather take the Esprit, especially a chipped Esprit, When I put my foot down at 80 MPH in the Esprit the car TAKES OFF like a bat out of hell, it sounds/feels incredible.. I just LOVE that sensation.. the Viper had it too, but with the Viper you felt like you were out of control, in the esprit it just buckles down and launches! When I would floor the Elise at 80 mph the engine would scream but the car would crawl towards 100+.. it was painfully inadecuate and ruined the experience in an otherwise thrilling car for me..

[esprit22]

I was lent a new elise last year by the factory, in gold leaf colours, looked stunning. This is what I thought;

crap brakes due to no servo, complete lack of top end power and worst of all, winders to get the window down! But great fun. My esprit gets more attention on the road and I prefer driving it as it has all the things the elise did not. (still like to have one though, just for fun)

[mamovaka]

Well my elise was loaded, it had power inside etc.

Here why the lack of power bothered me so much, for 50k+ you are getting a car that has barely any amenities, barely any real comfort and interior.. and I had a loaded model.. So what is that 50k getting you? well it should get you the best performing track car in it's price bracket right? No.. it doesn't at all..

No high end power at all.. after that 0-60 high rev launch pretty much everyone will catch and surpass you by 100.. on a track.. your only chance to get ahead and catch up is in the turns.. without turns your a goner.. For the same price a corvette will eat you up all day.. It's just too expensive for such a small motor..

Sure you are paying for the Marquee, I understand.. It's just not enough.. and the fact that made an Elise S with even LESS power is just ridiculous..

I do understand the concept of the car (low weight, don't need a big engine) but why doesn't lotus take a cue from Noble and go with low weight but a nice sized engine or a strong turbo/supercharger to give the car the SPEED it needs (even high end)..

I was actually banned from elisetalk.com for this very complaint.. and it gets my blood up every time I start talking about it..

Just bothers me to no end this shortcoming of the car in stock form.. I mean you get in the car and it FEELS like a racecar.. from the sparse interior to the lack of power steering.. then you FLOOR it and it sounds like a racecar.. it just doesn't have the POWER anywhere near to where it should..

If your going to charge that much money for a spartan car like the elise.. give it an edge to compete in the market.. like a fast engine.. that is why you can buy a 05 elise for 30k now.. that is 40% depreciation in 1 year people..

[Jonathan]

I used to get similar and different when I had my little Elise (gone to a very good home ).

The main thing is people never felt intimidated by it becuase it was a fun car, the Esprit is much more intimidating - I used to drive around here and the same Saxo Bois used to try it on vs the Elise never even dreamt to have a go at the Esprit off the lights - however I know (because of the lag on the Esprit and the control on the Elise) I could go faster off the stops with the Elise - to about 40-50 in which time you've left Nova boy well behind

On the power front - OK it has not got the grunt compared to a V8 but it's not far off an S4/GT3. Where you're not commanding it is through the corners. I done the Scare yourself Sensible course 4 weeks before driving the same track at Hethel in the Esprit and my god can you tell the difference.

You have to sit in with a Lotus driver to experience it, the cornering is where it does not lose speed compared to other cars - it's incredible what that car can do (see various videos on the net of Elises making a mess of other supercars on the track). I've had the fortune of being driven in the Exige S and the Elise fed/R by Lotus drivers and it's something to behold, you do come away with the "I'm not worthy" feeling...

TBH you bought the wrong car, the Elise isn't the balls out model - I dont think you can get the Exige S out there which is a shame but you have an extra 30-40hp and miles more grip - they are immensly quick and will out handle everything in its weight class, if that doesn't please you you're buying the wrong car again - go get a tuned rice rocket for straight line racing with 3 times the HP of your Esprit.

It's not what Lotus is about, never was never will be (hopefully), thats what used to piss everyone off who went racing - getting beaten by a car that was 1/2 the size and 1/3rd of the power.

Those who went to the Factory day saw the GT3 Exige on video wasting the Astons, Ferraris and so on.

Either that or drop the Audi TT quatro engine into it...10 sec 1/4 mile un-tuned (if you can stop wheel spin in 4th)

[Paul C]

everytime i drive it, even to work i would say over 80% of road users stare...

It's the lycra, not the car mate.

As with other replies i see Elises every day to the point i don't notice them,

it stands alone as the Lotus model that probably won't flash back at you when

you flash them in your Esprit. It's easy to forget the great little track cars (and

how very Lotus) they are. But so many are bought by people that merely had

them on a list of 'possibles' including MR2's, S2000's, MGF's, Boxters etc, without

any real draw to the badge. You just don't see Esprits, even in the UK, maybe the

Elises rarity in the US makes people see it differently?

When Vic tells people i have a Lotus they say "oh, an Elise?",

and it's only being told it's an Esprit that raises an eyebrow...

B)

Mind you, if you drive one in glittery trousers and a leather tank top

then you will probably get 80% of road users to stare at you, Karl.

[mancunian]

Lets be serious Elise vs Esprit.

No disrespect to Elsie owners but.

Esprit = supercar

Elise = sports car

Esprit= low wide dramatic looks

Elise= very small MX5/MGF size

Esprit=

[TSD]

OT - is it true the Elise is going to get the rubber bumper treatment a la Federal Esprit S2 as of next year?

[lotustt]

The Elise is a great car. When I drove it, I had so much fun! I wasnt worried about being "wasted" by other models. It is a pure sports car. If you don't get it now you just never will. Mind you, I love the Esprit and will be looking for one soon. But they are 2 different cars. I'll take both please.

[mamovaka]

I don't mean to say that I don't "get" the elise, I "get" it completely.. that being said I STILL believe it's underpowered to a fault..

Why do you think they came out with the Exige S? Just arrived in the states.. what upsets me is that the S only offers 30 more HP.. and while that is significant... the car still lacks the power from 80 MPH and up.. which can easily be observed by witnessing the S's 4.1-to-60 acceleration while only optaining a 13.0QM.. should be able to bring in a 12.2 or so.. but the power is just not enough..

Now an Elise at about 260+ HP.. THAT would be something, I know the Exige Sport Cup has 245.. that is what we should be talking about..

I understand the place the elise is trying to hold in the sports car universe, I just still feel the engine was a misfire by lotus..

[Paul C]

Now an Elise at about 260+ HP.. THAT would be something...

Steve Williams, the guy that looks after my Esprit is running an Elise at 260bhp

He said the money from the last bill i paid was going towards the 300bhp

engine for it, and i really don't think he was joking about that at all...

And he's got an Esprit, a Carlton, a 340R, several other Lotus and a race car, but

he still loves that Elise and i 'think' it's the one he drives the most at the moment.

[Jonathan]

I don't mean to say that I don't "get" the elise, I "get" it completely.. that being said I STILL believe it's underpowered to a fault..

You don't quite get it

My old Elise was 120bhp and the car that really catapulted Lotus back into the scene (ie it sold and sold and sold in the UK so much they had to re-develop it), 120hp is laughable by todays standards. The car sold in bucket loads (by lotus standards) because it was so fun to drive and gave the customer something that hasn't been available for so long which was a fun drivers car - you don't need masses and masses of horse power to have fun, unless you're into that or only have straight roads to play on - I used to have more laughs in the stupidly controlable Elise than the more powerful Esprit. The car is all about ride enjoyment - same reason why Lotus 7 replicas are so popular and why not everyone has a super bike.

My ONLY critiscism with the car is they should have used the 2.0 Honda lump which is arguably better and more powerful (most played with Exiges and so forth use this with ~300BHP and generally WASTE other supercars on track days) - I dunno what the reasons were for the Toyota lump, probably money.

At least you actually tried it and didn't like it, which is more than what some people do which is just decide they dont like it before trying it

As I say the car just wasn't for you and the V8 is much more your scene as you want the power.

As I say, if you take a spin with Dave Minters or somewhat at Hethel you will 'get' the car.

[Kimbers]

the S's 4.1-to-60 acceleration while only optaining a 13.0QM.. should be able to bring in a 12.2 or so.. but the power is just not enough..

I've tried to stay out of this but I really am boggled at how you can say that you notice a difference of 0.8 seconds over Qtr Mile? 0-60 of 4.1 beats the

Porsche 997 GT3 (4.2)

Ferrari F355 (4.6)

Gallardo (equal to)

Koenigsegg CC8s (4.2)

Viper GTS (4.3)

Merc AMG SL65 (4.4)

and on and on and on and on etc etc .

Now consider that many of these cars are in excess of

[slade]

Yeah... if all you're talking about is being able to beat supercars, the Elise/Exige does just fine

The fact that you have to drop and destroy the clutch to do it is a good excuse not to cause who really wants to do that? Let the bimmer beside you revv his engine Why have anything to prove? You know you could waste him, so does he probably.

Resting on your laurels can be a good thing. Just being able to say, "yeah, I drive a Lotus, everyone knows it, and I could etc. if I wanted to B)"

Even without doing anything silly, it's still a fast enough car too... just don't worry about what the neighbors can do.

Edited November 29, 2006 by slade