Lotus Evora 400

[Snoopy1969]

I think in the past Motor journalists were a little bit more Independent, esp I remember a german Journalist with always high praise for italian cars. He also rated the Elise (s1) very high, praised her as a fascinating machine. That all was no hurdle for his later Job, working for Porsche PR/Communications. In General car tests are much shorter, I also got the impression that journos drive the cars only a very short time which also does not help in my eyes.............

[Breeze]

And another thought!  It also seems to me that many of the criticisms of a car by the journalists reviewing a product, are based almost purely on the fact that they are unfamiliar with the vehicle and its operation. In the few hours they get to drive the vehicle, they never get to really know it. The high sills, hidden buttons etc, etc of our old, slow, lardy Evoras might seem a bit strange and difficult at first. But, as we all know, for the most part they really aren't an issue at all after a couple of days with the car. You learn how to get in and out of the car without drama, you 'know ' where all the buttons and knobs are. its a bit like the first few hours in a hire car you've never driven before. For the first few hours it can be annoying and frustrating trying to work out systems and operation.... then we just adapt.  Maybe, the reason that Porsches are so well regarded by the journalists is because of the very fact that they are all very similar in layout, operation and switch gear etc, and change very little from model to model. So the journalist immediately feels at home and familiar with the car, he's not stepping into an entirely new environment. Bibs for example, is already more than familiar with the product he is reviewing, and is therefore not distracted by the unfamiliarity of the vehicle and can so concentrate on the important bits, and not the bits that bug him. 

[brightoncorgi]

A  "hidden button" or a sub feature going down three levels with five options on a NAV screen?  I'll take the button.

[Arregueti]

Can only agree with all the posts above. Nicely said.

 

Actually, what convinced me to buy my Evora was the fact that the UK reviews complained extensively about the fact that the key looked like a key from a 1990's Mondeo... If that was all they could spot as an issue, that was my car... And I was proved right. Other things I have driven since I bought the Evora are sad and dead in comparison.

 

Anyway, I also think that Lotus should focus on making eye-catching AND user-friendly cars (at least the Evora and next Elise) to attract new clients who want to feel the magic without the more painful (according to the press...) bits.

 

Here is hoping they will have the necessary resources and support from the public.

[C8RKH]

And another thought!  It also seems to me that many of the criticisms of a car by the journalists reviewing a product, are based almost purely on the fact that they are unfamiliar with the vehicle and its operation. In the few hours they get to drive the vehicle, they never get to really know it. 

I like your thinking Breeze. It's a bit like a new girlfriend really. It's either a quick flirt and a one night stand that doesn't do it for you, or, on the first few dates you stick at it, keep fumbling about trying to hit the right buttons (and sometimes trying to find the right buttons as either the light hides them or they don't glow enough in the dark - but then that's also a benefit, right?)  in the right order to get the right responses and actions you want. Then, depending on the length and quality of the test drive and whether the buttons all worked you can make a subjective decision as to whether it's a keeper or not.

 

It's only after a few years that you then need to start worrying that everything's still working, the size of the bills, the amount of time it takes to service etc. and if all the buttons still get the right responses etc....

[Snoopy1969]

just a funny side remark: german journos were complaining a lot about the

"mass of knobs spreaded all over the dash without sense"

a lot in the past - this was no Lotus it was the 911 in the air cooled years with the "old" five-gauge dash, never changed in General since the sixties only added several knobs... :-)

[C8RKH]

never changed in General since the sixties only added several knobs... :-)

 

Would those be the people inside them?

[The Pits]

I think Breeze makes an excellent point about familiarity. Remember when the Exige V6 was first tested? All of them complained about the weight of the steering - because they are all used to driving cars with masses of power assistance. The thought of actually using some arm muscles at parking speeds was too much. As an owner of an Exige V6 I can confirm that you get used to it very quickly and also that the steering is in no way heavy above about 10mph!

 

The other thing I don't get about car journos is why perceived build quality is such a big deal for them. If you're only driving a car for a few hours, what do panel gaps, minor switchgear and dashboard plastics matter? I love the way they think some dashboard plastics are better than others "this one has cheap plastic, whereas this one has really nice plastic" - ridiculous! The 'old' Evora never got the praise it deserved for trying to use nicer alternatives to plastic inside. You also have to remember what Porsche were making at the time of the Evora launch. Their interiors really were austere only a generation ago, they have taken huge strides in that department with the latest cars. The Evora 400 appears to be going back towards more a more mass produced look and feel to the interior which, clearly people seem to find reassuring. And more familiar!

[Guest hosscartwri]

Until relatively recently I only purchased motoring magazines if I wanted to research potential new cars

when I was looking to change vehicles (I now buy EVO regularly) but I have been an avid reader of Hi Fi

magazines regularly for years and have spent considerable time listening to kit and spending daft amounts of money on it. The interesting thing is that after a while, with high performance products of any type, you

begin to realise that in order for reviewers to draw a distinction between one quality product and another, they end up having to pick up on small details and then make a big deal out of them which, when it comes to real life ownership, be it of Hi Fi or performance cars, rarely turn out to be particularly significant.

In my experience there seem to be two types of thing that review journalists criticise; one is an "issue"

that other reviewers have latched on to and the other, more often than not, is a personal hang up or fad

that a particular reviewer has which is picked up in various reviews on other products by that journalist

over several months worth of reviews.

This is where I believe many motoring journalists do a huge disservice to Lotus. Pretty well without

exception they will make mention over a sentence or two of the unparalleled feel and feedback that a Lotus

gives but will then spend several paragraphs bemoaning something like the poor radio/CD performance which is hardly the most important item in a performance orientated car where, as far as sound quality goes, noise

will all but drown out the sound reproduction let alone the 'high fidelity' detail.

The other area where the Evora 400 and other Lotuses have perhaps been harshly treated is when they are

compared to other performance cars. All too often, in my opinion, reviewers pass comment on the feel,

feedback and handling characteristics of other manufacturer's vehicles where, in effect, they say that the

steering feels dead or, that whilst it weights under cornering at higher speeds, it does not communicate

what is going on at the interface between the road surface and the tyres (in my view vital for rapid

progress on the twisty bits) yet they will still say that such a car is "better" overall than the Lotus.

Unless you are buying a performance car just to pose in, what is the point of such a car if you can not

enjoy the sensory delights of the communication between you and the road and, more importantly if pressing

on, you can not tell when the thing will let go of the road or for that matter, once it has done so, how it will behave!!?

Yes, practicality and every day 'livability' are factors, but the hair splitting performed by most reviews

seems to me to miss the point more often than not. Ahhhh - that feels better - nothing like a good rant!

[hyteck9]

I love all the above comments. I will add to this mix the reviews of the Dodge Hellcat. It is a giant, heavy, clumsy, unsophisticated nightmare of a car with a giant engine on an well aged platform with average interior. It does 1 thing well. It goes in a straight line really really fast. Can't corner to save it's life.

For some reason , this is OK. All problems forgiven or overlooked because power is a priority for so many.

When Lotus releases a car that has amazing cornering beyond all measure, why isn't all else forgiven? It is the best at what it does. Simple, it's not a priority to most. And I believe this is because it isn't easily sharable.

Hellcat: "watch this!" *vvrrrooommmm!!!!*

Lotus: " watch this!" *wiggle?!?!*

[C8RKH]

I'll take a great wiggle over a good vvrrrooommmmm any day of the week

 

Had to be honest and did not know what a Dodge Hellcat was so googled it. Knew it reminded me of something, a 1970's Ford Cortina Coupe!!!        

 

 

[The Pits]

Sadly most modern sports car buyers and journalists have gotten used to numb steering. Many even find Lotus steering 'too busy', the feedback 'too detailed' now. We are the other way round, ruined for life by cars that communicate clearly, now everything else feels fast, comfy, clumsy and numb. My brother has a GTR which is monumentally quick but even after a decent drive in the car you get out not really feeling like you know it particularly well or how it reacts to your inputs. Lots of its incredible engineering remains unfathomable. The show from the drivers seat is amazing but you are not allowed a peak behind the curtain.

 

The Evora could never hope to match the explosive performance of the GTR (not much can) and despite the similar price I would have to take the Evora for its ability to entertain and delight all the time at all speeds - all you have to do is turn the steering wheel. It also happens to be plenty quick enough in the real world. The GTR is shock and awe, a Hollywood action movie full of explosions, there's a time and a place for that but the term 'sensory delight' just can't apply like it does with the Evora.

 

The Evora was initially recognised by journalists but I think they all retreated from their positions on the basis that the car wasn't popular. If nothing else they seem very keen now to follow the market trends and never challenge them. The Evora's steering continues to get a mention but against cars with electric steering the Evora's advantage has grown, not diminished. Journos have been way too easy on Porsche over the steering. Yes of course the cars still go where you want them to and electric steering can have all the accuracy and rate of response you could wish for but steering should be a two way channel of communication, you need to feel the car talking back!

 

Nice to know that at least here there are people that have a clue what we're talking about!

 

[Gravel]

I think I'll get lynched for saying it,but IMHO this thread needs a Venn Diagram to show the relative sizes of the sets of people with 80K to spend on a car and those with 80K who are prepared to faff and make excuses for their choice...

I think we all want Lotus to succeed - the old loyal set of customers who fit in the faff section simply weren't buying enough cars to keep Lotus alive...

And yes, I really do think I'd enjoy my Evora even more with less faff.

[Arregueti]

I know what you mean. When I opened the boot today, one of the screws securing the brake light to the wing fell off...

 

It is indeed expensively priced but I don't think most of us here spent the 80 k asking price on the car, rather kept looking for the right car after depreciation hit someone else first or waiting for the right deal to come. Incidentally, for Europe, a 20% increase in GBP/Eur exchange rate in the last year, does not help either.

 

But, anyway, I agree that Lotus needs to expand their client base and appeal to a broader audience by making better all-rounders if they want to survive.

 

As it has been said in another thread recently, the issue is that, IMO, the brand is not currently perceived as a "status" brand while brand enthusiasts will not be willing to pay upmarket prices for the product they know and cherish.

 

How to move forward? They certainly need a bold move but if they keep the brand focused on drivers rather than perceived status they will have my vote.

[C8RKH]

I agree Jorge. I think Lotus need to put a little, well targeted money, into some clever marketing.

 

We had:

 

"More Unsprung Technique" or something similar from Audi that focused on the quality / technology and caught on

 

"The ultimate driving machine" from BMW that tried to make the excuse that the reason the saloons were so uncomfortably / harshly sprung was that they were sports focused

 

"The power of Dreams" from Honda with that very clever advert and use of song that really captured everyone

 

"Power, Beauty and Soul" that very well sums up Aston Martin.

 

What do we have for Lotus?  Is it a focus on Tech, on Driving ability, on Engineering, on Design, on what?  Ask the average simpleton what Lotus as a brand stands for and what will the answer be? Ask a Lotus devotee - will the answers be similar?

 

I really do not think the issue is really the cars, or engineering, the ability of both etc. The issue is that Lotus just do not, have  not, ever really marketed themselves, to build a brand with consistent messaging that people can really get behind. By getting behind it you build the following, you build mystique or heritage, you build something that makes people want to belong, be a part of it. THAT for me is what really has set Porsche apart from most other manufacturers in the last 10 years or so. People buy into the Porsche ownership experience because they believe they need, want, to be a part of the Porsche club.  Whether we like it or not, it works.

 

Lotus have history, they have a what you could call romantic racing pedigree, They have made some of the worlds most desirable cars, but they have not moved with the times and therefore they have not realised that just having a good design or a good product is not enough. It needs to be marketed well, to the right target audience, to get the right attention and build the right environment where people aspire to buy into and join the club.

 

Let's be honest, the current Lotus website is poor. The Evora is almost here and no proper configurator. The information you get from the website is basic.  I think JMG and his team need time. They are sorting out the product and building out a sensible future strategy, but they have got to get the marketing sorted out  - no good have a great product if no-one knows about it or knows why it is great etc.

 

They have everything going for them. Great products, a great race track at Hethel. A great driver skills setup at Hethel on an FIA track. The best track cars for the money. A loyal and extremely enthusiastic core fan base (just look at this Forum amongst others).  They have the ingredients needed to make Lotus THE most desirable, active, fun and rewarding Driving Club in the world. Can they just put it all together. I really do hope so.  I love the fact they have dealership at Silverstone. Do they make the most of that and the potential access to the track? Could they have a dealer at every major motorsport circuit?  Hmmmm, how could that be marketed with better factory support for track days et al.  

 

Off for a very cold beer in the wonderfully hot and humid city of Paris today to calm down....  Paris is like Porsche - the marketing promises a lot but in reality, you'd quite like to be somewhere else

[NedaSay]

Yes about that configurator is it going to go online at any point in the future, Bibs has seen it but has been very coy about it, I get the NDA but the Evora is still listed TBA on the website... They need to hire a few webmasters I think and the new marketing director needs to make a big push... And the "It's not for you" thingy is not it! 

[DaveC72]

Maybe I missed an earlier post, but whilst the configurator is still not up, there seems to be more detail and pictures of the options on the Lotus website at least!

http://www.lotuscars.com/lotus-evora-400

Late train back from Waterloo last night and so I thought I would browse the mags in WH Smiths and see if any were worth purchasing based on Evora 400 content (already have Evo).  

 

Nada.  Nothing. Zip.  

 

Massively disappointed.

[NedaSay]

Good find Dave. And yet,  pricing is still TBA!!!

 

I have to give something to JMG, he is kind of a no marketing BS kind of guy just look at the paint option list - but sometimes I am ok with some marketing BS cause really this paint option list is kinda dull

 

PAINT OPTIONS

 

Solid Red

 

Racing Green

 

Metallic White

 

Metallic Yellow

 

Metallic Grey

 

Metallic Black

 

Metallic Silver

 

Metallic Orange

 

Metallic Blue

 

Signature Silver

 

Some of the renders are plain terrible, the seats ; while other are barely ok, the wheels. Utterly disappointed by the look of the tan interior package. Well I can't wait for the configurator... But I'm kind of running scared right now as these renders are possibly from the configurator.

 

And please bibs tell me that if I win the lottery and I feel so inclined I can order any kind of paint job I want straight from the factory. 

Edited August 15, 2015 by NedaSay

[Mark Blanchard]

So having seen the Evora 400 at the Lotus Festival, my opinion is it's better when you see it in the flesh.  The front splitter looks more aggressive and the interior looks smart and is well made.  The rear however, looks incoherent and a bit of a mess, but I'm sure it won't be a deal breaker.  I can see this appealing to a wider audience.

[philcool]

Sat in the chrome orange one today and checked out the engine bay must say doors close with a proper clunk and boot also interior nice but for one thing LOTUS is on the dash in big chrome letters the same size as on the back of my car oh give me strength why! 

[Gravel]

Sat in the chrome orange one today and checked out the engine bay must say doors close with a proper clunk and boot also interior nice but for one thing LOTUS is on the dash in big chrome letters the same size as on the back of my car oh give me strength why!

If they are playing by the same rules as the competition they could offer not to fit them for an extra 250 quid.

The Cayman GT4 that every reviewer likes to mention seems to have a £138 option for 'painted headlight washer covers' - WTF do you get if you don't tick that box? Unpainted plastic in the middle of your bumper to show what a cheapskate you are?

[philcool]

Maybe I should have asked if it could be deleted but the guy showing me the car was so enthusiastic that it seemed a bit unfair to wind him up anyway its nice to have even a small project on even a new car just to personalise it to your own tastes even if that includes damaging a new dashboard with solvent and a razor blade !!   

[auRouge]

I drove a "Turbo Esprit" for 21 years followed by a GT3 for another 2. Adored them both but while my Evora S might lack some of the dramatic presence of Giugiaro's wedge (which is still very evident in the GT3), it is at least an order of magnitude better than its predecessors by every other measure.

The biggest challenge when you've owned an Evora is trying to work out what you could possibly replace it with (for similar money) - other than a younger and/or later iteration.

So true! There is no palatable answer...

[Kalli]

[C8RKH]

Looks like somone's hissing on your parade!

 

Sorry, bad morning at work and couldn't resist. That 400 front end is growing on me.