VW faking emissions tests in USA?

[Kimbers]

They are removing the Software all together Tom and then cars will be retested and reclassified to see if it effects anything that is used in generating income like Co2 for Company Cars/ RFL etc.

I suspect that a lot are about to come up for sale as people leave the brand at least in the short term! Sort of backs up my thoughts on buying a car. Don't! Always take it on PCP with an end of term lump sum. This is always guaranteed not to fall below this figure so you don't lose out if there is an incident like this and the book takes a hit.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Kimbers

[LF1]

They are removing the Software all together Tom and then cars will be retested and reclassified to see if it effects anything that is used in generating income like Co2 for Company Cars/ RFL etc.

So what's the point, the software is irrelevant in normal driving conditions, as long as it is removed for any cars that are tested? Looks like a big recall earner for the dealers.

[ramjet]

No, because if the software is removed and the car retested, it will now come out worse than 'what the customer bought' and rego etc may change. In the UK, as I understand it, cars fall into different brackets depending on emissions. Once tested, the car may change, which the consumer will have to pay.

[LF1]

I get that, but all that is administrative. If I (god forbid) had a diesel Golf and it was recategorised when retested surely whether i have had a recall to remove the software or not is irrelevant?

[Kimbers]

The time to take them off the road, loss of earnings and then potential to have the cars returned to the companies using them/dealers etc, because the users don't want to get stung by the HMRC will mean massive costs. I can't see the Manufacturer paying dealers anything other than base cost so dealers won't make a profit, plus I am suspecting big book drops on used VW's which means a massive cost to every company running them (and the likes of Enterprise, Leaseplan, Avis etc will run tens of thousands) and dealers who are fully stocked up on used cars after the second busiest month of the year. There is no way companies will stand these losses and VW will have to fork out for each of those too or potentially lose every big client.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Kimbers

[C8RKH]

Every retail customer with an affected car will face a recall. Massive inconvenience and cost for this I would suspect would be "claimable" from VW and we may yet all start getting those lovely cold calls just like PPI etc. telling us that we are entitlement to x and y.

In addition, from the news today, it looks as though once the cars are recalled, they are going to be retested in the UK as part of the recall work. The cars will then be "re-banded" for VED / RFL per the new readings and customers are expected to foot the new bill - so again, this will be "chargeable" I would have thought back to VW or at least grounds for people to hand back their cars, take compo and walk away.

Finally, I also read on the news that the affected cars are likely to cost those customers an extra £50 per year in "fluids" that will now need to be replaced etc.

What an absolute total sodding mess. Personally, I hope this brings VAG to its absolute knees. Whilst on its knees I hope every customer takes the opportunity to smack them in the face and if they get knocked down to the floor and never get up again I would not shed a tear. Sick of being ripped off by companies and their bosses doing things that are at best immoral / questionable, and at worst, just plain illegal.

Damn, I'm getting soft in my old age.

[Kimbers]

It's called trade descriptions act mate. "Not fit for purpose". If you bought a car on it's low emissions and then its proved (which it has already) not to be as low as it was advertised then you can return the car and get your money back. At least that's how I read it! In the USA they have the "Lemon Law" which is along the same lines! Except, here you will get the cost back less any useage you have from it (so a used value) there you get the full cost of what it cost you no matter how long you have had it!

[Bibs]

 

[Bibs]

And the UK govt doesn't really care anyway! 

http://www.motoringresearch.com/car-news/no-road-tax-hike-for-vws-with-illegal-software-uk-government-confirms-1002997849

[simon mac]

Bibs, I'm not convinced that dyno test is valid. Seems to me it's just the ESP telling the car to limit torque as it senses big wheel speed discrepancies. 

[Kimbers]

We will see Bibbo. If the Co2 does get reclassified (if) then there will automatically be price hikes because its an automated system.

[Bibs]

You think? I'm sure that since they've stated they won't increase taxes they might ask someone to press an extra button? 

[simon mac]

Certainly in terms of BIK, if people have similar processes to us, the finance department will just enter the details from the lease company / V5 at the point where someone gets their hands on a company car, into a spreadsheet somewhere. Then just reuses that on the P11D until the car is handed back.

I really can't see HMRC retrospectively trying to check/enforce these, or indeed re-issue coding notices.

Besides Merkel has phoned "Call me Dave" and asked nicely not to stick the knife in to VW...

[Bibs]

BBC news on R2 just reported the Police have raided VW's HQ and homes of employees...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34475408

[Jacques]

And in the EC, a long list of diesel car manufactures are now exposed in making dieselcars, that pollute a lot (4-15 times) more, than allowed. These include: Volkswagen, Nissan, Volvo, Renault, Hyundai, Citroén and Fiat. Source: Danish national Television homepage.

Hmmm... If this should have a happy ending, diesel cars as a private transportation vehicle for ordinary private persons could come to a stall or even a stop. That's about time!

Cheers,

Jacques.

Edited October 8, 2015 by Jacques

[Kimbers]

Co2 issue may be sorted as VW have announced that some cars "Will require new Catalytic Converters to ensure other emissions are correct".

So basically your car won't be as fast or economical as it used to be because it's emissions are going to be tightened up.

[tinywillyuk]

I'm confused on the chemistry here...  The US tests that triggered all this hoo-hah related to NO... are there any chemists that can explain what changing the performance to nobble the NO reading under test has on the CO2 output during the testing?

Moreover when not testing, what happens to the CO2 reading?  I have Googled but can't find any concise details.  

[sailorbob]

One of the ways to reduce the formation of NOx is to reduce the combustion temperature. Since diesels are lean burn engines a way to reduce the temperature is inject more fuel which naturally raises CO2 emissions.

[steve930]

Co2 issue may be sorted as VW have announced that some cars "Will require new Catalytic Converters to ensure other emissions are correct".

So basically your car won't be as fast or economical as it used to be because it's emissions are going to be tightened up.

well they won't be getting my caddy van back if I can help it!  I bought the 140 bhp version purely for performance and nothing else 

[Andyww]

I was just thinking about this. This is something I have not seen mentioned in the press, that there is absolutely no reason for anyone to return their cars as there is no benefit in doing so.

[steve930]

Unless it can be made law ( which obviously ain't gonna happen ) I'm guessing vw are either going to tug at the heart strings of the environmentally conscious owners, 

Another nastier approach from vw might be to void warranties on the cars that owners don't return for the modifications 

[Jacques]

In both cases, I think the resale value will be lower, than without all this ado.

Potential second hand buyers will probably ask around if this or that car have been changed to be "legal".

If I was a government, I would be interested in telling the voters, that their diesel cars have to be worked by vw (or others), to keep poluting as Little as possible, NOx or CO2.

Moreover, vw will have to pay for this expense.

If had this done to my car, I would demand a refund from vw, either because of lesser performance, changed emmision, consumption etc, or because I would wish the deal to go back in total. Hmmm.... maybe enough for another Esprit?

Kind regards,

Jacques.

[Kimbers]

New article just come out. Most interesting thing was the bit at the end (copied below). Like I said, best way to cut emissions is strangle the engine or emissions, both have an effect on performance and economy:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34485060

Mr Willis (CEO of VW UK) needs to be crystal clear about the impact of the emissions scandal on the 1.2 million cars and vans that VW has said could have contained the device in the UK.

Customers here are still in the dark about whether their cars are polluting the environment more than is necessary.

And what the impact of any "fixes" might be on the performance and value of the car they bought on trust.

 

Edited October 9, 2015 by Kimbers

[mdw]

Bring it on............I either keep my high miles Passat with old 1.9tdi or pick  up a nice little bargain from vag to replace it with.   I would be  very surprised if the  government change the tax band price. After all long after we have forgotten it was vws fault we will be remembering each year it was the tory party   who gave the extra twist to the knife.

The modern diesel is probably far better for the environment than my old tdi even using the "real" world settings especially for the miles I do.

[Vanya]

Death to Diesel. Hateful combustion process. May we hear the death rattle of its tractor sound and sickle-cell PV curves for the final time.