Evora 400 Roadster

[NedaSay]

Ok I'm intrigued now... I know that the Evora roadster will hit the US market first, it was part of JMG's plan and he made no secret of it from the get go it was always going to be a 2017. However it is June 15th 2016 and "zilch" ; no Geneva preview, no Goodwood Festival of Speed teaser... Not a single spy shot or leaked shot anywhere... For a car that is essentially an Evora coupé with a removable hardtop... That cannot take that long to develop, it is mostly about redesigning some of the windshield mounting points and a new rear clam... Pretty sure the guys at Hethel can engineer this in their sleep. The car would not be less rigid. The only sticky point is to minimize wind noise and water leakage in rainy weather.

Lotus is not registered as an exposer at either Paris in october or Los Angeles in november which would be the two last logical shows to give people a preview and open the order book. So what gives? JMG said he he tested a mule, so the car has been out in the wild already... And yet nothing... Can someone tell me in which area 51 Lotus does its testing ... Is it on this planet ? Cause no shots of an upcoming car that is supposedly 6 months away from sales start is no mean feat in this day and age! 

Or is it really a targa top? 

[Ccd]

Nedasay:

Lotus seems to be using the Geneva Auto Show to introduce new models and that is when I expect to see the roadster.  Keep in mind that summer is the big convertible market in the US and the car will never get to the US in time for this Summer.  Also keep in mind that Lotus has yet to deliver ANY Evora 400s to the US market.  The delivery schedule has slipped to July/August.  So it makes sense to wait until Geneva 2017 to introduce the car and spread out model introductions at the same time.

[NedaSay]

2 hours ago, Ccd said:

Nedasay:

Lotus seems to be using the Geneva Auto Show to introduce new models and that is when I expect to see the roadster.  Keep in mind that summer is the big convertible market in the US and the car will never get to the US in time for this Summer.  Also keep in mind that Lotus has yet to deliver ANY Evora 400s to the US market.  The delivery schedule has slipped to July/August.  So it makes sense to wait until Geneva 2017 to introduce the car and spread out model introductions at the same time.

I'm not talking about release date but presentation date. The Evora 400 was presented in march 2015  and was released in August 2015 - 6 months later. The 3 Eleven was presented in late June 2015 and released in March 2016. Lotus seems to need about 6 to 8 months from presentation to release so if they present the roadster in March 2017  it will only be available late in the summer, that would translate into opportunity missed imo. The should present it now and  so that people can make up their minds and ready their chequebook.  But the thing is so for the Evora roadster is kept secret which makes little sense to me, as we know its a targa they could show it to the public and say we'll release it when ready in 2017. Right now I have the impression that the car will be delayed even further due to the complete black out about it. 

[French Frie]

@NedaSay: I agree with you ... I love the Evora, but the only thing that could make me press the button for it is a removable top (whatever the solution : soft top, hard top or T top). I won't trade my Exige for an Evora until that... but when I was chatting with my dealer about the Evora 400, which is gaining more interest here after a real hard beginning, and was evoking this targa version as a possible future car for me, I asked him if it could be a 2017  or 2018 forecast, he enigmatically answered : "yep ...or maybe never"  ! not a very clever answer if not well informed, as he knows I won't buy a fixed roof car ... So I assume they're at least in limbo about it, or worse .

Nobody has "beheaded" a S1 Evora yet  ? I even captured some pictures from the Evora documentary to figure out to do so  ... but from the video of the guy stripping down his Evora on Youtube, it's really hard glued  !

 

[Jayone24]

Don t think that s so easy to remove the roof as the side panels are also structural for the car and if you want to cut them on the top to have a real targa you will loose structural rigidity, so they must reengineer the sides panel/roof/rear clamshell/windshield, that s a lot of parts and structural parts so they must also do crash test and all the needed testing....

One thing they can offer quickly is a glass roof or roof that open like the lotus esprit...

[French Frie]

I assume 99% of the rigidity is from the chassis, but you're right about the fact that the side panels are said by Lotus to be a part of the structure (it was in the press files, IIRC)... but the roll bar behind the seats would remains, as well as the windscreen structure. A "T-Top" configuration, with a reinforcement longitudinal bar may compensate the side panels ? 

Lotus, as a constructor, can't miss the regulations, but maybe a little (but serious !) workshop can make the modifications  ? brits are used to body modifications (probably due to less restrictive laws), such as shooting brakes (Eventer, Lynx,...) , convertible conversions, etc ...

By the way, I remember I saw some pictures about an Evora convertible made in the USA, from a tuner,  but I can't remember if it was just a project or if few were made ...

 

[French Frie]

it was from this picture (just a photoshop I'm afraid)  : 

 

[Bibs]

Ocean Drive, I've stayed in the hotel on the left of that pic! Didn't see the Evora though

[Jayone24]

I saw somewhere that the naked chassis rigidity is about 11000 Nm/degree and with all the structural panel it go up to 17000Nm/degree not a 1% difference!

[French Frie]

thanks for the info ... but the Elise is also 11000 Nm/degree (without structural side panels and without roof), which seems logical, regarding the chassis gemelity ... and it is not looked as a sausage (or a "merguez", as we say)  !  so it shouldn't be a problem ... a lot of convertibles are less rigid than the coupé version, and by far ! only carbon tubs like on the McLarens can pretend to be almost as rigid in open top version as in closed version...

I remember being about to buy an 70's Alfa 2000 spider, but I was afraid by the chassis torsion and ran away  ...

[Jayone24]

Yeah technically it shouldn't t be a problem but I just pointed that it s not an easy job to do and lot s of reengineering as to be done. They also work on suv  project and new Elise project so 3 projects to do in parallel and they are not a lot of people at lotus so this all take time!

hope that now Russell Carr is back he will redesign the Evora as it was originally, I think that the bahar redesign lost that fluid and elegant lotus design touch.

[auRouge]

A targa version would be lovely.

[Ccd]

Three points:

1) Dealers are always trying to sell what they have.  I've found dealers not to be any better informed than I am in terms of future models

2) I am confident the roadster will happen.  It is a relatively inexpensive way to expand the model range, which is particularly important for the US market

3) As I have said before, Lotus needs to take a page out of the Porsche playbook.  Porsche took orders on the GT4 the minute it was introduced and Lotus should be ready to take orders the minute any car is introduced at Geneva

Edited June 16, 2016 by Ccd
I had 3 points not 2

[JayEmm]

I believe Lotus as a company have been bitten previously by taking deposits on models that don't yet exist, and it may be wise for them to not do so considering they are currently trying to rebuild financially

[NedaSay]

5 hours ago, Jayone24 said:

Don t think that s so easy to remove the roof as the side panels are also structural for the car and if you want to cut them on the top to have a real targa you will loose structural rigidity, so they must reengineer the sides panel/roof/rear clamshell/windshield, that s a lot of parts and structural parts so they must also do crash test and all the needed testing....

One thing they can offer quickly is a glass roof or roof that open like the lotus esprit...hope that now Russell Carr is back he will redesign the Evora as it was originally, I think that the bahar redesign lost that fluid and elegant lotus design touch.Yeah technically it shouldn't t be a problem but I just pointed that it s not an easy job to do and lot s of reengineering as to be done. They also work on suv  project and new Elise project so 3 projects to do in parallel and they are not a lot of people at lotus so this all take time!

Ok so no removing a roof is never that easy but the Evora base design was conceived with a roofless  car from the inception of the project. 

While the shape of the roof is a lot more complex, they did design a glass roof for the  Evora 414E Hybrid (see below): 

the glass roof made a nice impact back then but the guys at Lotus quickly pointed the prohibitive price of that sculpted piece of glass... I would still like them to do and pass the cost of development on the buyers in the case of a limited run of 200 cars for exemple.

But back to the targa top, as I said above the car was package protected for a roofless model from the get go and the midlife redesign of the Evora 400 brought extra stiffness to the already very rigid chassis.  Now evidently  some reengineering and redesigning needs doing around the B pillar/ roll hoop, that is only logical.  Lotus maybe small but they still have a lot of engineers and as far as I understand it, JMG has reorganized the teams into project teams, they maybe small but they do exist so as to make development of multiple variants possible ; that's why the 3Eleven was unveiled less than 6 months after the  Evora 400 was.

Now yes they have the SUV to develop, and as far as we know the prototype for that is signed and sealed. It is a much bigger project but it also involves people in Malaysia and China.

The future Elise is a different thing altogether it is a future model that will keep using the VVA albeit modified, they are in the design phase possibly even reached engineering table but is way less advanced...

Then there's the Evora variants, some the can do quickly some that take more time, Lotus is getting help (from a big german carmaker) to fit airbags in the Sparco seats as reengineering the doors is to tricky. Getting the Evora to clear EPA and NHTSA hurdle is also tricky hence the posturing on the Evora N.A Return and the long delay to gain US entry. 

My point is how come no image.  Especially when JMG which is not really one to go around posturing too much has said to Automobile Magazine back in september 2015: 

Quote

The Roadster is first. It’s going to appear in summer 2016. The Roadster is easily done because we have a tough chassis and a composite body, and we already have the rollover bar incorporated, so taking the roof off is relatively easy. We can do it for a small amount of money. The A-pillar is reinforced. What we have in mind is two carbon-fiber roofs below 7 pounds each, which you can easily take off and store behind the rear seats. It’s basically a targa. We call it a Roadster. I drove a prototype last month, and it’s amazing.

source: http://www.automobilemag.com/news/lotus-ceo-jean-marc-gales-talks-evora-400-future-suv/

It is spring 2016, summer start in a few days and there are only so many occasion to unveil a car while making a splash at a relatively low cost (Goodwood F.O.S)  

[Ccd]

JayEmm.  I think I said be ready to take deposits the minute the roadster is unveiled, not before the car is introduced.  If you recall, when Porsche unveiled the GT4 at Geneva, you could immediately put down a deposit.  That allowed Porsche to fully capitalize on all the hype the car got.  This is especially important for Lotus, because the company cannot depend on the press to give much coverage to their vehicles.  

[JayEmm]

You're right CCD, although are Porsche now doing the Ferrari thing of taking deposits on models that haven't been publicly introduced? Like the 911R. "Here's the new Porsche, by the way it was sold out weeks ago"

[Advantage]

It's the Goodwood Festival of Speed next week. There's been a distinct lack of much publicised wooden crates going on a tour of the country this year.

[Bibs]

Lotus won't be there officially,  Bell & Colvill will be though... 

[NedaSay]

So that leaves only the fall autoshow, is it Paris or Frankfurt this year? And I don't really see just unveiled going on sale straight away +6 to 8 months that puts the car on the market in April at best which is not bad timing but late on the schedule. 

[quantum2000]

On 16/06/2016 at 20:16, Bibs said:

Lotus won't be there officially,  Bell & Colvill will be though... 

Hi Bibs, Any idea if there an official line from Lotus as to why they aren't exhibiting at FOS this year? 

[Bibs]

No idea of the official line but it's a lot of money and they've nothing really new to show off. 

[Ccd]

According to the Autoblog article on the Evora US press conference, the roadster won't appear for two years!

[CaptainSlow]

12 hours ago, Ccd said:

According to the Autoblog article on the Evora US press conference, the roadster won't appear for two years!

Makes sense given that deliveries of the 400 hasn't started yet in the US. Better get that sorted before offering a competing model.

[NedaSay]

I read that too, now I'm wondering if they are behind in product rollout or if the car will indeed be presented next year 2017 @ Geneva, but would make it in the US in 2018... Or the car is delayed and will only be presented in 2018.