Fitting Doors

[C43]

Hi

anyone got a good method for aligning the door once you have replaced all the bushes. I am putting it all back together but was thinking best to close the door on the catch before tightening up the door hinge mounting bolts inside the car?

cheers

C43

[silverfrost]

Christian, you have the right idea already   I  have fitted all mine that way in the past, I fitted the door on the car and used used plastic packing washers, the kind from DIY stores for fitting upvc windows etc. Put those on the bottom to sit the door at the correct height.  You can probably get away without the packers.  Just mind the paintwork. The doors as you will be well aware are pretty bloody heavy even without the glass as the doom beam adds so much weight.  Tighten the two main door nuts pretty tight and check the alignment if it is good. tighten the door nuts up full whack.   One thing i have found strange is every door i have ever taken of an esprit has always had sand paper folded so the abrasive side is on both sides fitted behind the door hindge bracket where it meets the body ?, i presume this was not the factory and previous owners thinking it would stop the door from moving, when in fact it was just door sag.    I would also advise someone holding the door for a few moments while you put the nuts on, i have had a door fall out while doing this luckily it was still awaiting paint 

[C43]

Thanks mate, that is perfect advise. I am going to fit some emerypaper but was thinking of superglueing the plane side to the body and using the rough side to metal hinges to prevent any possible sliding between the two.

And as you say the doors are heavy even when stripped.

Did you replace the bushes? I have fitted new bushes and pins but they we so tight I opened them up a little with a reamer. Still hammer fit but at least now possible.

cheers

Christian

[C43]

oh and by the sound of it attached the door to the beam before fitting the beam? When I stripped the doors off I took everything off the beam first then removed the beam last.

cheers

Christian

[jonwat]

19 hours ago, silverfrost said:

  One thing i have found strange is every door i have ever taken of an esprit has always had sand paper folded so the abrasive side is on both sides fitted behind the door hindge bracket where it meets the body ?, i presume this was not the factory and previous owners thinking it would stop the door from moving, 

The ant slip washers were factory fitted, SJSportscars sell a metal mesh alternative part number  A082U7199F or you can make your own using emery cloth & contact adhesive. 

[C43]

thanks Jon. SJ are out of stock for a month so have gone down the emery cloth and super glue route. Glued them on last night easy enough.

Still debating fitting the door beam and then sliding the door and adjusting to get the height right or fitting as an assembly the door and beam. My brother is coming to help this weekend so should be easier with two.

cheers

Christian

[silverfrost]

Hi Christian,  sorry i cant help with ideas on the door beam left in place, all the door i have removed and fitted have always been complete assemblys, Weight wise i think it should be a lot easier like you are doing 

[C43]

thanks for the feedback guys. I will let you know Monday how it goes....if I still have fingers left to type with

[ramjet]

I would not just close the door and tighten it up. Close the door, yes, but then lift the lock end just slightly (shim) so that the mechanism does not rub the top of the body door latch when it closes. Only needs a few thou to clear.

[C43]

amazingly it was pretty good first time with no messing. We then tried adjusting it to get it better and it turned into a bit of an epic.

Couple of points. First is much easier with two of you, one to hold the door, the other to tighten and loosen bolts. Secondly, once it is close you can adjust it on either top of bottom hinge bolt only and they do subtly different things. If you loosen the top bolt you can lift the door at the catch end but it gets closer to the body at the hinge end. If you want to lift the door at the catch end but want the door further away from the body at the hinge end then loosen the bottom hinge bolt only, lift door and tighten. Like this it was pretty easy.

We also taped up around the door to prevent scratching anything which was worth it.

Oh and I strongly recommend fitting the door beam and nipping in place  before you fit the door.

cheers

Christian

[silverfrost]

Glad to hear all went well Christian  

[C43]

On 4/16/2016 at 20:25, silverfrost said:

Glad to hear all went well Christian  

thanks.

As far as setting door height you can see it going onto the catch as you close the door from the outside enabling door height to be set accurately at this stage.

Also the pins are very tight in the new bushes once the bushes are in the beam. To save a lot of hammering a heat gun on the aluminium door beam once the bushes are fitted opens up the diameter enough to make the pins a little easier to fit, but they are tight...however this should prevent any slop in the door once it is assembled.

C43

[Andyww]

I was looking at this area last night. I noticed my drivers door was rotating the big nuts on the pivot which I think is wrong.

I tightened the nuts and it no longer does but is very stiff. I am presuming to replace the bushes the door needs to come off the beam. I really dont want to do that!

Knowing what the assembly looks like exactly (which I dont) would it be any use drilling through the round vertical part of the door beam, where its visible with the door open, and fitting a grease nipple then pumping grease or oil onto that vertical part? Presumably this would lubricate the top and bottom bushes from the inside, or is that not how it works?

[Paul Coleman]

I can only speak for the S1 but I'm guessing the S3 is just as bad... there is space between the pin and the tube that you could fill. The doors are the worst bit of my car and the whole hinge seems as though it's not up to the job. The plastic bushes on mine were sloppy and the doors sagged pretty badly. I have had both doors off and replaced the corroded steel pins with stainless steel and both top and bottom plastic bushes with phosphor bronze ones courtesy of Matt Watts. You could swing on them now! I've fitted the whole door and I've fitted it in pieces and in pieces is a lot easier.

[Freemason]

8 minutes ago, Paul Coleman said:

 I ... replaced ... both top and bottom plastic bushes with phosphor bronze ones courtesy of Matt Watts. You could swing on them now! 

I've fitted new plastic bushes, had a major problem because mine were not the same size as the standard bushes everyone was selling.

Fabian had the same problem, and Steve from SJ informed me:

"The problem with the bushes and pins is that the first Esprit models have imperial pins, bushes and beams. The later cars, right up to 2004 have the same metric parts. There is nothing written about this anywhere, no part numbers, nothing. We have working this out with trial and error. We do not know dates of changes."

 

Even after I fitted the correctly sized bushes one end was snug and the other a bit loose, and the whole thing felt like it would last about a week. I think bronze bushes rather than hard plastic sounds like a neat solution. Can these be purchased anywhere?

[Paul Coleman]

I have a very early Esprit with Imperial bushes and pins. Have a word with Matt Watts (on here) and he can sort you out with some Imperial s/s pins and phosphor bronze bushes.

[Freemason]

Hmmm, I think I just might!

Thanks for the tip!

[Andyww]

I didnt realise the original bushes were plastic.

That probably means I dont need to do anything about trying to lubricate them, they will wear looser with time (which is another problem!).

[Matt-watts]

Yes this is topical !

The plastic Lotus ones are so poor I was sick of refitting them every 2 years as its such a long job.

I have had new EN16 (same spec as a head stud) door pins made and phosphor bronze (oil-lite) bushes (in both sizes), they will last for decades and you wont have to keep adjusting your door.

The customers I have fitted them to have all said it makes the doors feel really solid and accurate.

Matt

[Paul Coleman]

Matt - am I on sales commission? Hahaha

[Rolls]

On 6 May 2016 at 00:47, Matt-watts said:

I have had new EN16 (same spec as a head stud) door pins made and phosphor bronze (oil-lite) bushes (in both sizes), they will last for decades and you wont have to keep adjusting your door.

The customers I have fitted them to have all said it makes the doors feel really solid and accurate.

Matt

Hi Matt

do you stock these bushes? If so may I purchase a pair? Cheers

[Matt-watts]

PM sent

 

Matt

[Freemason]

Quoting Matt Watts here:

"Lotus made some beams imperial and metric sizes but there is no early or late type. I think some times metric, some times imperial tubing was delivered and wielded to the beams, then they made the bushes fit later. 

S1 107G had metric tubes so do some S3 made some ten years later, alot cars mixed randomly in-between had imperial tubes."

 

How confusing! So both the bushes and the pins changed, or just the bushes? SJ sell two different sized bushes but they both work with the same metric pins. 

[Paul Coleman]

129G has imperial (September '76)

[Freemason]

Are the imperial the bigger of the two different sizes? Also, did the pins change size or are they always the same and just the bushes vary?