Esprit Turbo project car - part3 - the further continuation

[Steve4012]

Fabian, I've recently had this conversation with Steve at SJ about my 85 turbo that I currently have the engine out of. It has a stamp on the bellhousing indicating it should have one shim in the bottom two bolt holes but there were none present. He said when the engine is back in and the gearbox reattached (I do mine separately) measure the gap between sump and engine and calculate how many shims you need (details in the manual). Remove bottom two bolts, slide shims in and reinsert bolts. This may be easier than wrestling with the gearbox out of the car. I know the manual has a procedure for a new sump but not sure why the above couldn't be done. Steve said this is how they measured it at the factory before stamping shim requirements on the bellhousing. 

[Lotusfab]

Thanks Steve,I'll have to have a long think about this.

[Lotusfab]

Has anyone got  a picture of the shims in position? I was thinking f detaching the bell housing from the gearbox then using this to work out the shims. I'm not familiar with the set up , but could work it out if necessary.

I wasn't going to fix the sump until the bellhousing was temporarily bolted on. Presumablybthe sump can move slightly so if it's fixed at the correct point it might not need shims? 

Can't believe how much work this all requires! 

[Lotusfab]

I can see this taking another six months to a year to complete! 

[Lotusfab]

Somthe issues are now starting to build up again. Jerry on here has pointed out I need to install the earth strap across the tensioner. Also the folly of not priming the oil pump prior to starting. I can't see how the pump will suck up any oil if it hasn't already got oil in it. Although, It was greased with graphogen grease - this might  seal it enough to suck up some oil. But not trusting to luck it make sense to me to fill as much if the oil ways as possible with oil. I'll post my solutions here. So....

shim in bell housing to sump bolts.

Earth strap on tensioner 

oil pump priming

Unless I shim the bellhousing and sump after the engine is in I need to remove the bell housing now and shim It before I do anything else. I don't want to  permabond the sump, until the shims are calculated. Not sure how easy it is to separate the bell housing from the gearbox? Looks like I'm going to find out! 

[Lotusfab]

I'm using this procedure as the lower engine was replaced in about 1986. 

[910Esprit]

Dare I say it would be madness to remove the bellhousing from the box just to run this test....  Cant see why an engineers square or similar would not suffice.  I could send you a bellhousing if you were really keen!

Anyway, to prime, all I do is attach a couple of feet of rubber tube and funnel  to the turbo oil feed on the block and keep topping up with oil, once its full, leave it for an hour or two until the oil has leeched away, job done.  

Edited March 19, 2019 by 910Esprit

[Lotusfab]

Yep I agree. I hadn't realised the bellhousing forms the gearbox end on others cars its separate. Sound a good way to prime the oil. I saw Barry's thread with the ebay pump - I'm going down that route. I have uncovered the fact one of the driveshaft bearings is shot. Also. The ring seems loose - more investigation required. 

[Andyww]

Dont remove the bellhousing from box!

I have never bothered with the tensioner earth strap, doesnt really do anything except get in the way.

[Lotusfab]

Well it may be acedemic and all coming to pieces. One drive shaft bearing is shot, but there is contamination in the box from rust. When I investigated further look what I found!Now the quiz of the week, what wheel is it that has a chip?

 It just got very expensive! 

[910Esprit]

Rust contamination is fairly common, seems to arise from the splines where the input shaft joins the mainshaft, then drops down the scroll seal oil return (thats my theory anyway....)    Speedo drives are also often loose which must risk water ingress. 

Looks like 3rd gear.   Oh dear....   Don't think the lock wire is original, so I think someone has been there before.   There was a guy on Ebay selling a few cheap parts boxes over the last couple of months - Wonder if he still has them.

NB Earth strap is to avoid static discharge (spark erosion) through the tensioner bearing.   That snippet came to me from Miles Wilkins.   Although with the mileage the average Esprit runs & a 2 year belt maintenance, I wouldn't worry too much.   (although I have the strap fitted!)   

 

[Lotusfab]

Thanks Steve. All very useful info. Yep somebody has been in there and used RTV all over the place! . I'm thinking now it all has to come to pieces so might as well get the bell housing off and photograph for everyone what's in there. If any one reading is looking at a mint third gear Im your man! 

[eeyoreish]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lotus-Esprit-S1-S2-S3-Turbo-Citroen-SM-Maserati-3RD-Gear-amp-Synchro-New-Obsolete-/352602702075?hash=item5218c240fb%3Ag%3Aq4cAAOSwZrtccc~e&nma=true&si=wBIIrR6nF0q6hfhDmp4TZQVcF1I%3D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Might be worth checking if he has any more..?

[Lotusfab]

Thanks Neil, timing is everything!

[Lotusfab]

I've bought stuff of him before.

[Lotusfab]

Sump,back on an fixed with permabond. After taking advice I aligned the end lugs to an engineering straight edge. May  result in a zero shim solution.

[Lotusfab]

The good ideas on this blog are costing me a fortune! Two new tensioner springs on the way! 

I am tempted to have a go at rebuilding the gearbox myself. The manual is quite comprehensive. Any thoughts? 

[Lotusfab]

The engine is nearly there just painting the covers in crinkle black.  Then an oil prime and the timing belt. I want to prime the oil first so I can rotate the pump and confirm it generates oil pressure before the rest of the timing belt is on. I also have to rebuild the tensioner as I am now paranoid about the springs. Of course the earth strap has to go on! Anything else that's needs attention whilst I'm busy bankrupting myself? 

[910Esprit]

1 hour ago, Lotusfab said:

am tempted to have a go at rebuilding the gearbox myself. The manual is quite comprehensive. Any thoughts? 

I've done it, it's just a gearbox....  In fact the box in my car is currently being run in at the mo after a rebuild.   Nothing particulary complex.    The issues you will face are:

• Whatever chipped that gear may have caused further damage
• The availability of parts is limited (expensive)
• Some parts are now obsolete - one of the bearings I recall (The gearbox specialists have developed alternatives)
• There are a number of parts that require particularly accurate measurements (Pinion height probably being the most exacting)
• You will need to go through another shimming pantomime until its correct
• A few special tools are required, but nothing that cant really be manufactured or worked out 

Previously, I would have recommended a good 2nd hand box as a cheaper approach, but these dont crop up as often as they used to.   As a first option I'd maybe suggest getting a quote from Alan Voights to fix yours, then decide.

[Lotusfab]

Thanks Steve, still,considering what to do. I would use like to see all of the parts inside the bell housing end as well before as decide. It seems pretty simple,  but we all know it's easy to say undo a bolt and it turns into days or weeks of trauma. 

[TAR]

3rd gear from SJ is an eyewatering £300! 

https://www.sjsportscars.com/parts-and-accessories/A082F6317F.htm

[Lotusfab]

Hi Tim, yep saw that and I'm reluctant to pay £300 especially with the amount this has already cost. I have found some used ones so may go down that route.

[CHANGES]

1 hour ago, Lotusfab said:

Hi Tim, yep saw that and I'm reluctant to pay £300 especially with the amount this has already cost. I have found some used ones so may go down that route.

Nothing like sinking the boat for a penny worth of tar... !!!    Put another '0' on it then maybe, but £300 for a highly essential part in an inaccessible place is pennies.    Always remember the saying a cheap part now ends up being a bloody expensive part later..  This is an Esprit not a Ford Fiesta,  it was always going to cost ££££'s  ..    The way I see it is a lot of private restorers will spend the money on what can be seen, but penny pinch the rest..   The 'rest' is the more important area where the big expenditure should be made, otherwise the outcome is a very pretty but dysfunctional Trailer Queen..   Come on Fabian GO the distance..  We all want to see this flying along the road not just sitting at a show..,   

[Lotusfab]

1 hour ago, CHANGES said:

Nothing like sinking the boat for a penny worth of tar... !!!    Put another '0' on it then maybe, but £300 for a highly essential part in an inaccessible place is pennies.    Always remember the saying a cheap part now ends up being a bloody expensive part later..  This is an Esprit not a Ford Fiesta,  it was always going to cost ££££'s  ..    The way I see it is a lot of private restorers will spend the money on what can be seen, but penny pinch the rest..   The 'rest' is the more important area where the big expenditure should be made, otherwise the outcome is a very pretty but dysfunctional Trailer Queen..   Come on Fabian GO the distance..  We all want to see this flying along the road not just sitting at a show..,   

Well you could replace all of the gear wheels with new and just about every nut and bolt, component on a forty year old car. I know because this car has probably more new parts on it than any other. From the previous owner and me. At the end of the day this is not a no cost limit resto. As for the gearbox used or new doesn't matter provided the component is serviceable. After all one new gear and the rest used there has to be a cost benefit equation. £300 is steep for a gearwheel. Let's not forget the classic car market has already peaked. Im embarrassed to say this rebuild has already reached astronomical levels a  year ago with me doing most of the  work and it's not finished! At that point I stopped adding up and there's still some big ticket items ahead. I'm taking a break from this for a month or two and just doing small jobs here and there my real job is demanding attention. Anyhow this is how far I have got with the engine.

 

[Fridge]

".... this car has probably more new parts on it than any other."

Speak for yourself, but I'm not so sure of that statement @Lotusfab