Seen many Europa's

[mayevora]

Since the factory visit last October when alot of us had a drive, not actually seen one on the road. Got passed today, by the first one I've seen on the public roads. As I spend my life on the road, can't believe I've not seen one until today.

Are many people seeing them around the country?

[cly_mitchell]

There is an article in Hemming's this month about the Europa. Kimbers father is mentioned. Best I can tell this is the precursor to the Esprit. Fairly quick for its time. I have never seen one in person.

[mayevora]

This is the new Europa not the old.

Edited March 3, 2007 by mayesprit

[Esprit Aviation]

Almost bought a real rough example of an S2, up above the Watkins Glen racetrack, in the middle of nowhere. the guy wanted $2k, which seemed high, but then again my labor is free!

So..... I wait for a while, in my mind I'm going to offer the guy $1,200. My son and I go back up to look @ the car. I forgot to mention, it was sitting axle deep in gravel & mud. :crybaby: not going anywhere soon,........ you'd think.

Getting all excited, just around the bend..........and blimy! the damn thing is gone!!!

Balls, I thought to myself, so I went into this little video store across the street, the same one I went into to inquire about the car. The girl inside thought I bought it. Come to find out the buyer gave him $2500!!

Moral of the story. If it's one w/ a removable body/chassis design, buy it! Even if it's ragged out! They're disappearing in a hurry! :crybaby:

[mayevora]

This is the new Europa not the old.

untitled2.bmp

[esprit350]

I saw one at the Stonleigh pre meet, kimbers turned up in one, does that count?

[SteveJ]

They haven't sold many, heard tell of between 4 and 11.

It's a white elephant.

Only 2 seats like an Elise (needs to be 2+2 in the coupe market they're aiming at).

Interior is the federal plasticy Elise, yuck

Exterior looks like a Proton

Handles like a Proton

Costs far too much

Was an obvious attempt of nailing together some left over Elise/VX parts and slapping an unrealistic price tag on.

Now, where's the proper 2+2 (updated M250 replacement) to revolutionise the market?

[mayevora]

Anybody that has driven one will tell you it definately handles like a Lotus, and definately not a proton.

[SteveJ]

Not the one's I've spoken to. Most shave said engine needs more power and the handling sorting.

[mayevora]

Steve, be interesting to see how this thread developes.

Might agree with you on the price issue but from my very short drive 10-15 mins, I loved every minute - Accelleration was quick, handling was pin point and sharp. Also had very impressive breaking.

[Loteuk]

Not the one's I've spoken to. Most shave said engine needs more power and the handling sorting.

Great car - typical Lotus, not Proton.

Handles lke a comfortable Exige.

[esprit350]

The car was originally going to be a Proton product, however it is a Lotus, drives like one, I agree it has not found a place in the market place, too expensive when you look a what else is around for that price, but interior is being revamped for Geneva, so lets see what happens then

[hotdog]

The simple truth is its around

[Bibs]

There is a 75 post topic about the Europa here

http://www.glcforum.com/esprit/forums/inde...?showtopic=6304

You will find that almost all Esprit owners admire the car and if you want to talk about the model, please use that topic after you've read experiences of 40/50 people who have taken it for a drive, myself included and I can't listen to you have a pop at a car you've perhaps not spent some time with. My opinions can be found in that thread and having had one for a couple of days the Proton handling comments and lack of power comments are seriously unjustified.

This topic is clearly titled, please stick to the thread of the conversation.

And no, not seen any yet but looking at the second hand market there are certainly more than 4-11 cars sold!

[Tentenths]

...looking at the second hand market there are certainly more than 4-11 cars sold!

Yep, the presence of 16 or so "1 owner/1,000 mile +" examples on the trader at the mo seems to well and truly confirm that

And getting back to Ian's original thread I've seen two on the road (excluding Kimbers).

James

[Bibs]

Here's some in car footage...

Kimbers in front of me...

Being overtaken...

Kimbers, in his natural habitat, 2nd place I am the king and he drives like a girl

[Jonathan]

OI, no Europa bashing here. If you're going to pass a judgement on a car for gawd sake go and drive it for yourself and don't be a repeater !

I'm a big fan of the driving experience, infact I rated it really highly - the biggest prob for me is the visual drama. It's not an ugly car but it isn't jaw dropping or radically different like the Elise was. I've given every new Lotus a going through and it was certainly one of my faves if not the best all round car they have - Handling was spot on engine is perfect - to me it was the closest thing to the Esprit feel in another car.

The main problem is if someone said to me "I want a Lotus, more punchy than an Elise but still handles well - needs some comfort and space for the weekenders" I'd say to them you've just described an Esprit.

Still eagerly awaiting the Top Gear verdict.

Whats never helped that car is that people expected it to be something like an Esprit replacement and it really isn't at all, it's an Elise GT.

In order to sell it Lotus need to stamp out their stero-types and get people into the cars so they can form their own opinion, the market is swamped with useless journalists who write what they like often based on little fact imo.

I loved it and I some others who I really respect their comments loved it too so it's a good product for sure - can't wait to see the new interior...those seats need to be further apart !

Not seen any on the road here in Kent

Dunno how many Lipscombs have sold.

[Kimbers]

They haven't sold many, heard tell of between 4 and 11.

It's a white elephant.

Only 2 seats like an Elise (needs to be 2+2 in the coupe market they're aiming at).

Interior is the federal plasticy Elise, yuck

Exterior looks like a Proton

Handles like a Proton

Costs far too much

Was an obvious attempt of nailing together some left over Elise/VX parts and slapping an unrealistic price tag on.

Now, where's the proper 2+2 (updated M250 replacement) to revolutionise the market?

Lets get this straight. The first comment is absurd. Over 50 were registered in the first 3 months of it's release! On top of this they are making about 3-400 this year and have no stock in factory. This means that everything to date is either pre sold or ordered by dealers.

Is it a Coupe? Aimed at the 2+2 Market? Actually it's aimed at the Audi TT style market. Don't believe everything you read in the press.

Interior is based on the Elise, yes but with Sat Nav, Airbags etc is actually different to the ELise. There are also changes on the way, interior wise.

Handles like a Proton? Have you actually driven it? Ask anyone here, out of the 40 who test drove it in October whether it handled like a Proton.

Here's me at Factory visit.......with Bibs's car......and again at SToneleigh. I know what I'm talking about. It handles so much like a Lotus that you could drive it blindfold and say...."Ohh it's a Lotus".

Costs far too much? What do you drive? My everyday car is currently a type R Honda. But in the spec it's in it's

[Kimbers]

Here's some in car footage...

Kimbers in his natural habitat...

Letting himself be overtaken...

Kimbers, slowing down for a photo opportunity and then overtaking me again shortly!

Lets go play again soon Matey! That was awesome......shame those Girlie Esprits had to join us for the trip back....what was it....60mph?

[Tentenths]

....what was it....60mph?

'bout the same speed on the way home from Stoneleigh, eh Kimbers?

James

[Peter]

What are the interior changes? i heard on the rumour mill they going to release an R version with more power, what are the changes going to be? when i sat in the europa at the brit motorshow, only thing that i didn't rate was the dash. would have looked much better trimmed in leather, hopefully the changes will be along those lines

[arbell9]

The content and direction of this thread was very interesting to watch as it developed. Its funny, we all judge cars in different ways and have different expectations of what we mean by power, quickness, handling etc.

Today most cars are adequately powered for everyday use, but yet many are underpowered for such things as say overtaking manouvres. On A-roads I see many cars up to 1.8 litre taking on very risky overtaking at speeds of ~50 mph. They crawl past putting driver and others at serious risk.

I hear lots of people at work say their cars are pretty quick but most of them are >7.5 secs to 60. Their 40-70 times are an eternity. You hear phrases like its pretty nippy when you wind it up. Quick to me is ~5 secs for 0-60 for a car. But this isnt quick, my bike does 0-100 in about 7.5 secs, 0-60 in 3.5 secs (trying to keep the front down is the challenge and my bike isnt considered quick by the hypersports bike boys)

Because many ordinary cars are branded "sporty" with spoilers that do bugger all, alloys that dont make it go any quicker and sports suspension set up, they think that its like a race set up and this is just plain bonkers. The car marketing men know what they are doing! When a bloke wants a new 3 series to keep up appearances but can only afford a 318i but sticks 18in rims and sports set up on it as extras makes you laugh. They then attempt to drive it like a sports cars and look like pillocks.

The car buying public is despereate to be seen to have a powerful, Sports-like car but without having to pay for one or keep one runnning, and its has to do teh school run and carry grandma with ease so they go for a hot hatch, or an estate with a big engine etc. Its all about ego!

On handling I have driven many ordinary cars as hire cars and have owned a small variety myself. I can tell that at ordinary, legal , sensible speeds these handle perfectly adequately to good. I have never driven round a track in a car and so when pushed to the edge in a controlled safer environment I cant tell if they handle well. I have to leave that to the bods on TV or in the magazines to tell me that when pushed really hard it understeers or the brakes fade when hot. Most of these test results dont apply to real driving as if you drove like that on public highways with other drivers about, hedges, trees, walls, pedestrians etc only a few feet from the car then you are nuts and shouldnt be on the road.

My esprit is my first sports car and I have no other sports car handling experience to compare it too. Thus I drive not to differently from what I call ordinary cars until after time I build up experience of how its different. I would think that when people judge a car on here they have a range of experience in cars of that type to base their comments on. If not their views are very weak.

I have seen the Europa in chris neils and to me it certainly looks like part of the elise/exige family. To suggest its meant to be something else is absurd, take a look at it where it takes its styling cues and DNA from? On how much power it has, based on the specs, it has plenty and its light, so myself not having driven it does a rough power to weight calculation and thinks yep it will probably shift nicely. On the handling, why when the last lotus (es), the elise/exige are famed for handling would one supspect that the Europa would be poor? That baffles me! I think that it may be a tad over priced but like someone else said, price becomes a minor issue if it realy floats your boat. I could see previous Elise owners going for one for the extra comfort.

I would be interested on hearing people on here trying to desribe what they mean by

Power - how much horses, torque etc is enough and for what type of car?

Speed - how quick and top end?

Handing - what exactly is this too people? Are you wanting to go round the twisties with comfort and ease or are you expecting a back end slide round the supermarket car park?

I am going to start this is in a new thread so that it doesnt go off the europa topic.

cheers

Alex

[Kimbers]

'bout the same speed on the way home from Stoneleigh, eh Kimbers?

James

James,

Stoneleigh to Norwich woulda been about 2 hours if some burke hadn't decided to head north to the M6 and take us 35 miles out of our way! Who was that again? Oh and fancy chickening out when That Impreza wanted a race........... Must admit to chickening out at 130 myself! .........kmh obviously ossifer!

[andecorp]

I was hugely dissapointed with the Europa when I went to the dealer last month.

I was expecting a car that I could drive everyday, and take pride in it. Unfortunately there was nothing good I could say about it.

Quality was shocking - creaking everywhere and terribly uneven panel gaps. The sill plastic bent when I leaned on it to get out of the car! And that was on both display cars they had.

Styling was terrible in real life. It looked like something coming out of Hyundai, not Lotus.

The Elise/Exige is gorgeous, sexy and provocative. The Europa was shocking to me.

I didn't even bother taking it for a drive as I was so dissapointed, and I went in there cashed up ready to buy.

Now I am even more nervous about the new Esprit. I know the styling it's supposed to be good, but I hope the build quality will be much better than the Europa! The Europa looked/felt like a AU$20,000 car, not AU$100,000!

And no, driving it wouldn't have won me over. Because when I would get out of it and look at it, I'd feel like throwing up for spending the money on it.

If all that matters is the driving experience, then just get an Exige.

[Jonathan]

I wonder if a few rotters got out into the fold ?

A lot of poeple complained about road noise and poor performance but I experienced none of this - infact I was expecting it but was bowled over by the opposite to tell the truth. It's not a stunner, without a doubt, but you're looking at it with Esprit / supercar eyes - park it in a car park against some Audi TT's and porches and it really stands out.

Lipscombs had a Coxster in for a part ex on an Exige and I just couldn't stop laughing at it - it looked like noddy's car in the company of the Lotus'.

I personally wouldn't buy one - I'd actually have a standard Exige - but I'd certainly recomend it to anyone, the old man wants a retirement car and was sniffing around one but I think he'll probably go S2000.