Hethel lap time leaderboard

[Bravo73]

12 hours ago, The Pits said:

Looks flipping quick and whoever was driving really knew what he was doing.

Isn't it usually Mr Kershaw these days?

[The Pits]

On 1/24/2017 at 09:01, The Pits said:

Car	Time	Tyre
311 Race	1.19.5	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
Exige 380 Race	1.23.5	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
Exige V6 CupR	1.25	Avon ZZR
Exige 380 Cup	1.26	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
Exige Sport 380	1.26.5	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
Evora Sport 410	1.28.2	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
Exige V6 Cup	1.29.79	Pirelli P-Zero Corsa Trofeo*
Exige Sport 350	1.29.8	Pirelli P-Zero Corsa
Evora 400	1.32	Michelin Pilot Sport
Exige V6S	1.32.68	Pirelli P-Zero Corsa Trofeo
Elise Cup 250	1.34	Yokohama A048
Exige Cup 260	1.37.9	Yokohama A048
Evora S	1.38	Pirelli P-Zero Corsa
Elise Cup 220	1.38	Yokohama A048
Elise S220	1.41	Yokohama AD07

*V6 Cup owner's estimate 

 

 

[Swiss380Cup]

What I find quite interesting is the 410 performance... always thought it was a very performant car.... with some tweaking around it should be as fast as the 380 Cup and Sport.... light is not always so right apparently..... I'm sure the Evora 410 could be an amazing track car.....

[The Pits]

Laptime is very quick and also can be seen in the video, it was a complete lap, not a combination of sector times or anything like that. I find it hard to believe it can lap faster than my V6 Cup but if so that would feel seriously impressive from a larger, heavier car. The racing Evoras go well too and setting times that can match the Exige V6 CupRs and sometimes beat them. It's a more rigid chassis which was developed to take a V6 from day one. The 410 is impressive because it's nearly all mechanical grip, downforce is only 63kg at top speed (190mph). The Sport 350 makes 20kg more at a lower speed (174mph) and Sport 380 makes 140kg at 178mph. None of them will reach much over 140mph at Hethel and there is only one corner where aero really comes into play. Perhaps the Exiges might show more of an advantage at some other circuits?

[Swiss380Cup]

Any clue about the 360 Cup...... ? Everybody forgot to clock it apparently....

[Bibs]

Antoine, underneath the last post in a thread is a reply box, you don't have to quote someone's previous post to reply.

The 360 Cup time wasn't included in the Lotus press release.

https://www.thelotusforums.com/latest-news/lotus-cars-news/lotus-launch-limited-edition-exige-360-cup/

[Swiss380Cup]

OK TX...

[The Pits]

Car	Time	Tyre
311 Race	1.19.5	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
Exige 380 Race	1.23.5	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
Exige V6 CupR	1.25	Avon ZZR
311 Road	1.25.8	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
Evora GT430	1.25.8	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
Exige 380 Cup	1.26	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
Exige Sport 380	1.26.5	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
Evora GT430 Sport	1.26.8	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
Evora Sport 410	1.28.2	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
Exige V6 Cup	1.29.79*	Pirelli P-Zero Corsa Trofeo
Exige Sport 350	1.29.8	Pirelli P-Zero Corsa
Evora 400	1.32	Michelin Pilot Sport
Exige V6 S	1.32.68	Pirelli P-Zero Corsa Trofeo
Elise Cup 250	1.34	Yokohama AO48
Exige Cup 260	1.37	Yokohama AO48
Evora S	1.38	Pirelli P-Zero Corsa
Elise Cup 220	1.38	Yokohama AO48
Elise S220	1.41	Yokohama AD07

Updated with Evora GT430 and 311 (road version) laptime.

Exige Sport 380 is looking suspiciously fast, Exige Cup 260 looking a bit slower than I'd expect. I find it hard to believe there's 4 seconds between a 220 Cup and a 250 Cup also.

The others look there or thereabouts in line with expectations. Track temps, humidity, track grip levels all vary from day to day so might explain the more unusual results. 

*still V6 Cup owner's estimate

 

[The Pits]

Just updated with Evora GT430 Sport laptime according to Lotus's latest press release. They claim it's 1 sec slower than the bewinged version which makes 150kg more downforce.

Given we've only seen a render of this car it's very likely that Lotus simply timed the same car with and without the aero parts. A question mark remains as to whether they bothered to time it using the standard 235/285 tyres and block up the front wheel arch vents or whether this is simply and aero on, aero off comparsion (more likely I'd have thought!). The wider wheels with 245/295 Cup2s are an option for the Sport so perhaps they set the time with those. Is 1 second around Hethel plausible just from aero parts? Normally I'd say no but 100kg-250kg of max downforce is some jump. Wings on the GT430 should be enough to feel working, making 94kg of downforce at 90mph, so a useful amount above 100mph. Exactly what you want at Windsock corner for a good run onto the main straight. 100kg of downforce at 190mph realistically means bugger all at 90mph.

[The Pits]

Car	Time	Tyre
311 Race	1.19.5	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
Exige 380 Race	1.23.5	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
Exige V6 CupR	1.25	Avon ZZR
Evora GT430	1.25.8	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
311 Road	1.26	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
Exige Cup 380	1.26	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
Evora GT430 Sport	1.26.8	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
Exige Sport 380	1.27.5	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
Evora Sport 410	1.28.2	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
Exige V6 Cup	1.29.79*	Pirelli P-Zero Corsa Trofeo
Exige Sport 350	1.30.5	Pirelli P-Zero Corsa
Evora 400	1.30.8	Michelin Pilot Sport
Exige V6 S	1.32.68	Pirelli P-Zero Corsa Trofeo
Elise Cup 250	1.34.5	Yokohama AO48
Exige Cup 260	1.37	Yokohama AO48
Evora S	1.38	Pirelli P-Zero Corsa
Elise Cup 220	1.38	Yokohama AO48
Elise S220	1.41	Yokohama AD07

Revised with more accurate times. 311 road, Exige Sport 380 and Exige Sport 350 have been revised down. Evora 400 has been revised up!

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

How does the Evora GT430 get to be quicker around Hethel than the 3-11 Road? I know Lotus claim it is, but I just don't get the physics.

GT430: 430bhp & 1258kg = 342 bhp/tonne

3-11 Road: 410bhp & 925kg = 443 bhp/tonne

So that's over 100 bhp/tonne in favour of the 3-11. Same tyre brand and gearbox. Both with Ohlins & AP brakes. Also the 3-11 has strong down-force too: I think over 200kg @ 150 mph acting on only 925kg, compared to 250kg @ 190 mph acting on 1258kg.

Sure, the 3-11 has a lower top-speed (174 mph v 190 mph), but I can't see that being a limiting factor at Hethel.

So to me all the published data indicates that the 3-11 Road should be significantly quicker on track than the Evora GT430.

What gives?

[The Pits]

A moot point and intriguing mystery. Equally, how is the Exige Cup 380 able to match it?

Having driven the 311 around Castle Combe in direct comparison to my Exige V6 Cup and Evora Sport 410 I have a hunch as to what might be going on.

Firstly I don't think it makes a spectacular amount of downforce in 'Road' form. I got it up to around 140mph but don't believe it was making anything like 200kg. I felt a clearer sense of aero induced stability in the Elise Cup 250. The 311 was quite an edgy device as tested. Power delivery is very peaky too so if you're out of the powerband, it's just not making the power:weight numbers. I can remember waiting for the power to come back in between gearchanges (the gearing isn't suited to the peaky delivery) and when it does, it does with a bang, which isn't something you want mid-corner. The first corner at Castle Combe is a very fast right hander called Folly, taken at the top of 4th gear. The car is just about to rocket forwards, right as you turn in. The choice is to brave it out or shift early to calm it down. I went for the latter! Really it's a corner where downforce should be starting to help. The 311 was massive fun, the crazy powerband makes it feel even more mental when it finally arrives. It's a sweaty palmed affair but also an endless challenge. I was surprisingly slow in the 311 compared to the other cars, still the fastest but not by much. I went out with a pro driver who knows the car well, he was able to wring a decent time out of it but even then it wasn't spectacular compared to what I can do in my Caterham 7 race car which has zero downforce and a fair bit of lift! I think it's one of those cars which is very sensitive to set-up and needs to be carefully adjusted for each and every track.

My best guess is that even for factory test drivers the 311 is too peaky and not stable enough to handle 410bhp coming in all at once. Difficult to get consistent laptimes like that. The race version has strong torque all the way through the revs, more downforce, better gearing but same tyres and brakes and look at the laptime that makes.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Thanks Jonny. The 3-11 Road lap time does seem rather disappointing considering that it's no quicker than the similarly priced Exige Cup 380 (as you stated above). You'd expect an out-and-out designed track weapon like the 3-11 with 8% more power and 12% less weight to be a whole lot faster than the Cup 380.

[Bibs]

Car	Time	Tyre
311 Race	1.19.5	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
Exige 380 Race	1.23.5	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
Exige V6 CupR	1.25	Avon ZZR
Evora GT430	1.25.8	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
311 Road	1.26	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
Exige Cup 380	1.26	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
Evora GT430 Sport	1.26.8	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
Exige Sport 380	1.27.5	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
Evora Sport 410	1.28.2	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
Exige V6 Cup	1.29.79*	Pirelli P-Zero Corsa Trofeo
Exige Sport 350	1.30.5	Pirelli P-Zero Corsa
Evora 400	1.30.8	Michelin Pilot Sport
Elise Cup 260	1.32	Yokohama Advan Neova AD08R
Exige V6 S	1.32.68	Pirelli P-Zero Corsa Trofeo
Elise Cup 250	1.34.5	Yokohama AO48
Exige Cup 260	1.37	Yokohama AO48
Evora S	1.38	Pirelli P-Zero Corsa
Elise Cup 220	1.38	Yokohama AO48
Elise S220	1.41	Yokohama AD07

[The Pits]

Beat me to it!

[The Pits]

Car	Time	Tyre
311 Race	1.19.5	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
Exige 380 Race	1.23.5	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
Exige Cup 430	1.24.8	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
Exige V6 CupR	1.25	Avon ZZR
Evora GT430	1.25.8	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
311 Road	1.26	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
Exige Cup 380	1.26	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
Evora GT430 Sport	1.26.8	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
Exige Sport 380	1.27.5	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
Evora Sport 410	1.28.2	Michelin Pilot Sport Cup2
Exige V6 Cup	1.29.799	Pirelli P-Zero Corsa Trofeo
Exige Sport 350	1.30.5	Pirelli P-Zero Corsa
Evora 400	1.30.8	Michelin Pilot Sport
Elise Cup 260	1.32	Yokohama Advan Neova AD08R
Exige V6 S	1.32.68	Pirelli P-Zero Corsa Trofeo
Elise Cup 250	1.34.5	Yokohama AO48
Exige Cup 260	1.37	Yokohama AO48
Evora S	1.38	Pirelli P-Zero Corsa
Elise Cup 220	1.38	Yokohama AO48
Elise S220	1.41	Yokohama AD07

Quick update, Exige Cup 430 added.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Just out of interest, if slicks were fitted instead, one sort of difference would that make to the dry lap times of these cars? Do people use slicks on track days?

[Bibs]

I'm pretty sure you're only allowed slicks on test days, not normal track days. 

[The Pits]

Slicks were worth nearly 3 secs around Brands Hatch Indy in my Caterham (that's over a very sticky treaded tyre). That's a short lap. Could be worth 4 secs a lap around Hethel easy if the car was set up for them. Some of the cars would need damper upgrades to really get the most out of them though. I was told a while back that even the CupR's Ohlins were not quite up to getting the best out of slicks, but that's Lotus for you. Most would just bung them on, go 4 secs quicker and be happy! The dampers on my Caterham are very old and in need of upgrading!

[Gashead1105]

2 hours ago, Bibs said:

I'm pretty sure you're only allowed slicks on test days, not normal track days. 

I presume you mean only at Hethel Bibs? I've done a shed load of track days where people are running slicks on an old snotter and been surprisingly quick. What you can't do on most track days is bring an open wheeled car...

[cobwatch]

The relative similarity in lap time between Cup 430, GT 430 and Cup 380 is something of a surprise to me. The Cup 430 is only 1.2% faster than the GT 430 and 1.4% faster than the Cup 380. On price for performance the Cup 380 more than holds it's own. I wonder why this is? The Evora chassis is clearly outstanding as the longer wheelbase and greater controllability seems to minimise any inherent deficit. The 410 sport also has statistically impressive performance. The Cup 430 underperforms a little against the clock, it carries significantly less weight than the GT 430 and significantly more power than the Cup 380 and yet seems to be unable to fully exploit these advantages. The performance difference over the Cup 380 is especially  notable for its paucity. Possibly an exemplar of diminishing returns in action? But lap times are never more than a guide and only when these cars are on track simultaneously will the full picture unfold. Fastest is fastest, but not with the dominance that perhaps could have been expected. The Evora chassis looks to be particularly well placed in utilising any future power upgrades.

[Loquacious Lew]

Dave's (DJW) question still stands for me.  Wouldn't fitting Michelin Cup2s to the 400  narrow the gap between it and some of the others, notably the 410?

[The Pits]

The Evora 400’s time has improved by 1.2 seconds since we started this leaderboard! Original laptime claim was 1.32!

[AdamK]

Thread resurrection... 

Looking at this table i was wondering how a 2-11 would stack up around Hethel against all of this new V6 machinery. Then I remembered Rowland at Motorsport commenting on my car when it was having it’s full cage fitted in 2016. Apparently one of the development drivers had spotted my car in the workshop and was nagging Rowland to take it out on track to set a time. Quite rightly Rowland told him to bugger off because it was a customers car. 

I bet in terms of braking performance the 2-11 is right up there still. 

[The Pits]

No doubt. I’d love to see a time for the 211. Good call. Anyone ever heard of one?