Future of Lotus

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Struggling to think of a 4 door Lotus coupé. Carlton had 4 doors, but not a coupé and not really an X5 alternative. Am I missing something?

[Breeze]

This is interesting, all the various opinions. Without Bahar basically disowning the Evora, it might have done better. It was a car he really didn’t like or support. I also think that the Lotus range got ‘confused’. When the Evora came out, it was presented as a comfortable, sporting GT. It had a comfortable, stylish interior and good sound proofing. Since, it has morphed into Exige territory, and become a light weight track focused car…just like the Exige. The adding lightness thing has simply made the interior of the car look cheap and stripped out, fine in a track car not so good in a daily driver. In a daily driver, or even a weekend car, it. makes more sense not to have the boy racer exhaust noise, no sound proofing or air con and rock hard suspension. It’s might be fine for the enthusiastic Lotus owner, but has little appeal in the wider market. People buy Porsche’s because they are a comfortable, well equipped, practical and usable car, the GT2/£/$’s represent a very small percent of their sales. Lotus crap on about the fantastic downforce numbers the 410 and 430 produce at 190mph…but what is the point if it’s a road car? Lotus really need to define their range much better. An affordable sports car like of the Elise type. Something hardcore for the enthusiastic driver/ track day guy and a GT, something comfortable, sporting and usable. ..Then of corse they need to actually market themselves..which Barha was very good at.  As Tim Marra says above, I live in Italy, my Evora gets loads of positive attention whenever I go anywhere. People always think it to be a much, much more expensive car than it actually is.  

[KAS-118]

I agree with Breeze in that Lotus do need to have  plan - on what models are to fill which sector.

I worry about the SUV in that although they're obviously extremely popular at the moment - it hasn't done much good for Maserati - but them again you see an awful lot of Porsche ones about.

To me they should aim for models that fit in along the lines of:

1) Basic/comparatively cheap/enthusiasts - Elan/Elsie

2) Track focused - Exige

3) Sporty but comfy with a tad of practicality for the teenage kids that you have to run around - Elite/Eclat/Excel

4) Gorgeous to Look at, Sporty as hell  and want an excuse not to be Dad's Taxi - Esprit

5) You own a dog = SUV

6) You have loads of money and want cutting edge design and technology - Hypercar 

 

[Nathan Pitman]

You both nailed it there. 👍

[NedaSay]

3 hours ago, KAS-118 said:

I agree with Breeze in that Lotus do need to have  plan - on what models are to fill which sector.

I worry about the SUV in that although they're obviously extremely popular at the moment - it hasn't done much good for Maserati - but them again you see an awful lot of Porsche ones about.

To me they should aim for models that fit in along the lines of:

1) Basic/comparatively cheap/enthusiasts - Elan/Elsie

2) Track focused - Exige

3) Sporty but comfy with a tad of practicality for the teenage kids that you have to run around - Elite/Eclat/Excel

4) Gorgeous to Look at, Sporty as hell  and want an excuse not to be Dad's Taxi - Esprit

5) You own a dog = SUV

6) You have loads of money and want cutting edge design and technology - Hypercar 

 

I'm  pretty sure they have a plan and even better a roadmap. But this time they decided to keep as secret as possible for as long as possible. JMG  had a 10 year rational business plan I'm pretty sure they have tweaked quite a bit and are gearing up to simply execute it. But we the fans, the believers, the owners are not likely to be made aware of what's going to strike before it happens unless Bibs bribes the right people with the right amount of V.S.O,P. Cognac ...

[100th_Idiot]

11 hours ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

Struggling to think of a 4 door Lotus coupé. Carlton had 4 doors, but not a coupé and not really an X5 alternative. Am I missing something?

Forget 4 doors and 4 seats. Just swap.

[Sport220]

What can we expect for this year in terms of announcements / presence in motor shows? 

[NedaSay]

7 hours ago, Sport220 said:

What can we expect for this year in terms of announcements / presence in motor shows? 

Maybe Goodwood and Shanghai

[C8RKH]

On 28/01/2019 at 17:05, NedaSay said:

Clearly a possibility and somewhat a better call than to return to F1 at this point and in the foreseeable future... Lotus stablemate Polestar has been rumoured to join FE at some point, now it would not be surprising for Lotus to join FE.

How about a joint Geely entry of Lotus Polestar?  I could see that being a cost effective way of building both brands and provide a wider showcase for the Geely Group's capabilities.  I'd like to think that Geely brings "smart thinking" as well as money and combining the two brands allows them to split the budget and hopefully generate much more publicity. Even after 30 years the Talbot Lotus Sunbeam, the Vauxhall Lotus Carlton, etc still have a strong awareness across the motoring journo's and enthusiasts so would be a logical move.

[NedaSay]

so 

Hum i would say yes to that if Lotus was building the chassis and polestar the motor... But FE is a spec chassis series... I don't know if this branding would work these days as it worked decades ago. At the end of the day Geely would still be footing most of the bill but true it would be one bill and not two... Still I think that Lotus and Polestar will each get their own motorsport program and probably separate.... Polestar in FE and Lotus at Le Mans would be my favoured option (read dream)

[C8RKH]

21 minutes ago, NedaSay said:

Polestar in FE and Lotus at Le Mans would be my favoured option (read dream)

I think that would constitute a wet dream for me - but that would just make the racing more exciting too! :)

[NedaSay]

I would think that with FE budget stated around 25M for the time being and Le Mans GTE pro budget around the same amount, that both are doable.  Volvo probably has the budget for Polestar already with the record years they've had, they may have created a line of expenditure for a Polestar racing program. As for Lotus a return to motorsport is inevitable in my opinion and that is a good thing.

I would think that Lotus should not go for top flight right away and focus on doing a bit of grass root by creating bridges at the GT level... Which would allow a Motorsport rearm, the sale of Cup car has been an important source of income by the past and it would be good if they could bank on that again. Now should Lotus be involved in the new Hypercar category which I consider a bit risky it would still make a lot of sense. But even if Lotus was just to announce a Evora GT4.30R semi-work program to compete in Am or Pro-Am classes of GT4 of SRO or ACO/IMSA it would make me happy.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Nedasay. I see that you have been on TLF for 10 years now. I am always interested in your posts, in particular on this thread. How come you know so much about Lotus and their owners, from an industry point-of-view? I notice that you're always finding snippets of information and links from seemingly obscure sources. Your knowledge of the Asian car manufacturing industry is something to behold. Is this your profession, or are you just a very committed enthusiast, who enjoys digging around for this stuff? Do you have a similar passion for other marques?

Finally I know you don't drive a Lotus at the moment, but a) did you used to have one, and b) will you be getting one soon(ish)?

 

 

[webfoot]

New recruit for the Geely Design Centre at Coventry.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/jaguar-designer-joins-geely-head-uk-design-centre

[NedaSay]

9 minutes ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

Nedasay. I see that you have been on TLF for 10 years now. I am always interested in your posts, in particular on this thread. How come you know so much about Lotus and their owners, from an industry point-of-view? I notice that you're always finding snippets of information and links from seemingly obscure sources. Your knowledge of the Asian car manufacturing industry is something to behold. Is this your profession, or are you just a very committed enthusiast, who enjoys digging around for this stuff? Do you have a similar passion for other marques?

Finally I know you don't drive a Lotus at the moment, but a) did you used to have one, and b) will you be getting one soon(ish)?

 

 

I do research for a living, I'm Ph.D candidate in a domain completely unrelated. I spend way too much time on my computers and searching for info related to Lotus  is a hobby that gets my mind of my own project which is very much needed from time to time. Maybe this helps a bit as for my "knowledge". Besides in this day and age Looking for info is so easy.   As for knowing you  "Lotus guys", I've been hanging around for 10 years, which does hurt me a bit, I just turned 40... Not quite ok with it yet!  But I have spent the last 10 years reading your comments, that's a whole lot of data that I enjoy crunching. So yes a Lotus committed enthusiast defines me pretty well. I'm working on my Lotus purchase but won't rush it... I hope to seal a deal in 3/4 years time, I have a Ph.D to finish first. An Elise slipped through my hands already and still not happy about that!  Living in Montreal, winter makes a Lotus purchase a bit of an irrational decision as you get to drive it at best 5 months a year... So I'm biding my time, and reading your posts and commenting does keep me engaged with the brand.

And no, no other brand gets the same attention I love cars and the concept of mobility - (I'm so P.C these days) in general, motorsport in particular. I'm also very fast at entering query on my computer,  and going to page 19 during a Google search does not phase me one bit. I enjoy a challenge.

[NedaSay]

30 minutes ago, webfoot said:

New recruit for the Geely Design Centre at Coventry.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/jaguar-designer-joins-geely-head-uk-design-centre

So Mr Burgess becomes I guess the shadow head designer for Lotus as this new studio was setup to cater mainly for Geely Group UK units so LEVC and Lotus. I wonder  which project the'll get to work on first assuming the SUV design is now frozen, and the sport cars design must be frozen two if they are to unveil them by 2020.

[Bibs]

Seems that Goldstar aren't very happy with Proton having new friends in China! 

https://www.wardsauto.com/industry/plan-build-lotus-cars-china-lands-court

[NedaSay]

As far as I understand this, Lotus and Geely are immunized and DRB alone will have to deal with it, it will still look messy, I don't understand much about Chinese court system but if Goldstar failed to acquire the licence within a given time frame and that was clearly stated in the chinese version of the agreement then they don't have a leg to stand on... That is of course if Proton-DRB did its proper diligence and informed all parties properly in due time.

Now there's something I'd' like Geely to deal with sooner than later : Youngman, one of the Loki of the car industry is up to some mischief again... They tied up with Chinese behemoth Changan to produce a small MPV called CX20 within days of the announcement of the acquisition of Lotus by Geely in 2017: https://carnewschina.com/tag/youngman-lotus-cx20/ 

Changan appears to have ended the production of the CX20 at the end of 2017 leaving the Youngman-lotus version of the car on the market where it appears their market is fairly insignificant but still. Youngman some may remember was the company that tried for 2 years to buy Saab alongside Spyker, they were also the company that was supposed to help Spyker industrialize the D8 suv that was based on the Lotus APX ; eventually that deal pretty much killed Spyker. Youngman is Proton's former partner in China, they imported the Malaysian cars and then produced them - of all cars - under licence, before becoming for a while the Lotus importer in China and then rebranding Proton car "Youngman Engineered by Lotus", they tried to bring the Youngman T5 to market, which was the market resady version of  the Lotus APX concept. Then  they simply rebranded to Youngman-Lotus when Proton unilaterally ended the deal...  They are the reason why Lotus sold in China have to be sold as Lotus NYO (and have to be pronounced Lute and not Lotus) as they somehow acquired the rights to both the english and chinese names. 

Yup I'd really like them to get that shitshow cleaned up.

[Spinney]

When discussing Lotus future, it can be quite interesting to look at some of its past history. I've recently been going through a bit of a de-cluttering process in the house and garage and came across an old 'Classic Cars' publication from March 1998 which featured a 32 page special on Lotus. Naturally enough, I then had to sit and read through it, thus spending very little of the time I had actually devoted to the de-cluttering!

One paragraph that particularly caught my eye was talking about Chapmans transition from the self assembly cars of the 60's to his belief the company should move upmarket in producing the Elite series in the 70's..

"The Elite was born out of Colin Chapman's need to increase his margins - fewer cars, more profit - and build posher, bigger, more expensive 'grand touring' machinery."

So for those who doubted JMG's oft quoted statement that he was a long term Lotus fan and simply following the Chapman ethos in his desire to put the company on a stable footing, it seems he really was. The fewer cars, more profit, bigger and more expensive sentence certainly strikes a chord with what we've seen over the last few years.

[RichardC]

For those saying that a "luxury" SUV from Lotus is totally at odds with the history of the company, Oliver Winterbottom's book "A life in car design" (he is the designer of the 1970s Elite) has some interesting information on plans from the 1990s to produce a high performance, V8 powered, luxury APV i.e. a "people carrier"!

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=a20JDgAAQBAJ&pg=PA156&lpg=PA156&dq=lotus+635+apv&source=bl&ots=H03zIVG8Tq&sig=ACfU3U1RhBUF24o3L972FxaJHcSUUi47Wg&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj6iLaYlKrgAhU2VBUIHfoNB8cQ6AEwCnoECAgQAQ#v=onepage&q=lotus 635 apv&f=false

[Jeanvm]

From there the idea is born to the Evora. V6 2 + 2 seater.

[Bee]

I have been an enthusiastic Lotus fan for more years than I'd care to mention but I must admit, I've not kept up with what's been confirmed, suspected, disconfirmed etc. in these exciting times for the company. At the risk of sounding lazy, can anyone here provide a brief overview of what is definite (or seems very probable) in terms of the new/updated models expected from Geely-backed Lotus over the next few years? In the absence of 'definites', I'm certainly interested in hearing what those on the site, who have a little more insight and/or insider knowledge, believe to be 'likely'...

 

Many thanks to anyone taking the time to answer, hazard a best guess etc.!

[Spinney]

In a nutshell:-

Bought by the Chinese, no special editions since, definitely an SUV on the way and maybe a new Esprit in 2020/21.

Other than that, no further news I believe.

[Advantage]

There's a nugget or two more than that. A tie-up with Williams to develop electric powered vehicles, including talk of an expensive halo model for instance. 

[mdavies]

Bee,  may I respectfully observe that anyone with insider knowledge who posted it here would likely soon not be one.  And it may be that some are well aware of that.