USA vs NK

[Jacques]

I can. But as history have shown, Little or no thoughts for the tortured or killed are shown.

But my thoughts was more in the line of I Wonder why there is noone already within the nk ranks who want to terminate the dictatorship, and reform nk into a modern semi-socialistic country, for example. Already ready to be supported from both china and russia. And perhaps with some sort of semi-acceptance by some in maybe Japan.

I think there are way more political interests mixed up in the nk potential conflict. As for example in a little bit closer look in the history of europe, where austria-hungary were ruthlessly ruled and later lost by franz josef, the romanov family in russia and wilhelm II in germany. All related to the uk royal family by being cousins in one way or the other. History plays a trick and Things seems to be forgotten, so in time, new demands to restore former "glory" will arise. We see today a russian dictator, that rules even harder than the romanov family did, or at least the last nicholas, and he even publically claims that he wants to become the new tzar of russia, including all of it's former (illegally) occupied countries, even Denmark and Finland. Remember that Finland is not a member of Nato.

Meanwhile in mainland eutope, fraulein merkel seems to be relocating the middle East and North of africa into mainland europe, much to the protest of soverign states, but members of the ec. The old flames of say balkan for example, having been under the rulership and occupied by austria-hungary, and never forgotten, will not accept this german rule, or we can call it the consequences of german politics. Same thing.

Old aliances may break or be re-instated as the plot thickens in europe. Many states will not accept descisions made by other states and the way the ec is created, bigger countries such as exactly germany, have a bigger deciding power, in comparison to small but more, countries. If this is fair or not, is another debate. But the movement of the masses is quickly being picked up by extreme wing oriented oppertunists, who each conspire to gain local power. Many laugh of them, but I don't. Enough people of europe have died by the hand of bad descisions makers. Being that monarchs or dictators. And remember what followed the downfall of the 3 biggest monarchs in mainland europe after ww1. Dictators. And lots of them.

At the same time, we see the us, through economic crises they themselves have infected the World with, since the early 1950'ies, by extreme speculation in the movement and procreation of money, into legalised borderless entities undermining democracy, having elected a top of the cake figure which screams to the Heavens for a legal retirement and replacement. Understandably or not as the us voters wanted a clear statement to the establishment of decades in the us,, the consequences of their choice is slowly or quickly, depending how you look at it, coming to surface for the public.

If something should be learned from ww1 it is, that rulers come and go, and behind them are industrialists and money-makers, who will spare no Means to gain power, make borderless aliances and all for a gain, that is not paid back to the soverign states. On the contrary.

The question is who will gain from the nk conflict? Who will gain the most? As we say in ww1 and ww2 there are aliances and power-masks who rule behind the curtain. Or even sometimes in public. I don't for a blink og an eye believe, that the present russian dictator is in power in reality. Look at who gave him the power and who gains form it. Same with china. Old surpression as for example Japan having been on the facist side for a while in ww2, gave them no power to attack another state, only defend themselves by a forced Peace slause in their constitution. But Japan are today the Worlds most sophisticated military and they are also the 10'th biggest military in the World today. But they are bigger than that, as they spend the 6'th most amount of Money on military, and are right now for the first time since ww2, expanding their military to their outer islands, and spending 49 billions usd per year on military, they spend a lot more than most countries. Beware, they are not to be taken lightly. And so are indeed many of these old conflicts, lost territories, lost empires and lost identities. It only takes a very small spark to ignite all these old stories, and there are many ditatorships WHO are aware of this potential, and alliances may not be as strong as we think. Look at how not even one king in europe thought they would go to war against each other before ww1. But their constitutional power were lost mostly and generals and lobbyists had the power in reality. The old Victoria's cousins vould not do anything to prevent it.

In light of all this, I think it's very liable, that the solution to the nk conflict, is to come from within, to avoid a large scale conflict, where many tigers are ready to jump in and try to gain for themselves, id chances offer themselves. Hence my question of it being a fair question to ask, if there are noone in nk who wish to assasin their sick leader?

And to answer ramjets original question: no, I don't think so. Aliances and treaties come and go as we have seen previously and are wittnessing these times. It takes other forms of measures to prevent these two puppets to ignite.

Kind regards,

Jacques.

 

 

[ramjet]

The guy had his own brother assassinated. Sorry, that should read murdered.

No-one in NK would think about offing him, as they would have to have help to do it and no-one there can trust anyone else. It would be an absolute suicide mission for whoever took it on.

[Jacques]

Since he is so bad, and do so many extremely bad things, including murdering his own family and likewise for the population, imprisonment, torture, starvation, maybe it's time to demonstrate to him, that there is something called justice and bring him to court. Simply to die would not be a sufficient punishment for a person like him with his history of wrong doings. Let him repent every single day for the rest of his life.

I am sure similar dangerous tasks have been performed before, and I am sure if someone from nk itself really wanted to, they could do it. Maybe for the sake of peace? Peace didn't come freely and cheap in many parts of the world.

Cheers,

Jacques,

[ramjet]

The thing is, the next guy could be worse than him.

Better off with the devil you know.

[Jacques]

I dissagree with that point of view. I seriously don't think one should accept an extreme supressor, in fear of the one who may follow. The same "better off with the devil you know" could and have probably been said about many of the Worlds historical supressors who have long demonstrated their extreme atrosities.

Kind regards,

Jacques.

[ramjet]

That is not my point of view Jacques.

Many of the worlds governments think that way. Got it from a guy that was fairly well up in the armed forces.

I say go after them and then if the next bloke is as bad or worse, go after him as well. That is not how politicians think though.

[Barrykearley]

Trouble is - who's to say he's bad? Where do you draw the line ?

A very old and wise college lecturer after the first gulf war said to me - they must never get rid of saddam hussein - he's the only one that can keep the area in balance........

Did Tony get it wrong - we all know the answer to that. So who's worse - saddam or Blair ?

[ramjet]

I have heard that said about Saddam as well Barry.

[Barrykearley]

He was a polish war veteran whom fought alongside the Brits in WW11. He really was incredible and very famous at the time given the newspaper articles he had been in

[silverfrost]

Some regions do require folks in power like this, Iraq as said by many should have left Saddam in power.  But sadly we all know now what the side effects of removing such a man will do to a country,  and sadly we all know why it was done,  any region that is a major player in the oil buisness and decides to change the sale price of oil from the US dollar to Euro will be met with the same sad ending,  even quicker when you can blag a muppet like Blair to join your side ! 

This was also done several years ago regarding Kuwait,  but at the time not for the dollar but to limit Iraq export,  it is said that a member of the US goverment had actually given Saddam the go ahead to storm Kuwait,  and this was also stated live on Iraq television statements.  Yet again the US used to back saddam as during the Iran, Iraq war the US gave Saddam satalite images to help him win the Iran,Iraq war as he was able to see the Iranians troops  postions on the ground helping him bring the conflict to an end quickly after so many years of conflict.  This was in the US intrests as they saw Iran as the bigger threat. 

Exactly as we the British and Americans had done with Afghanistan during the Russian campaign, we trained the Taliban to fight, make i.e.d.s and gave them weapon systems well beyond their means.  Again as we and the US saw Russia as the next threat.   Why we have not learnt i do not know.............................

I cant stand the leader of North Korea,  But is this because i am from the West ?   The last missile strike over Japan was played down by the Japanese thankfully, although phone messages sent out,  it was not as dramatically shown on the tv as the last one,  No one was panicking like before thankfully.  

I watched several interviews regarding North Korea,  One was from a Former North Korean lady who managed to cross the border to China,  Then gain a fake passport to catch the boat from China to South Korea,  Her interview showed me one thing that stands out,  all she went on about is the fact that Kim always says the South is  poor and has nothing,  but this lady managed to get hold of contraband dvds,  that showed South Korea television,  where people had large apartments,  fancy cloths etc..... 

This reminds me of the Imigrants in the UK,  watch some footage,  they are obsessed with the latest phones etc from the West,  but yet leave their wifes and children in a war torn country ! 

North Koreans are brain washed yes,  but they also graft,  Even the army in the summer months work the fields to help the local farmers make enough produce to try and feed the country,  then in the winter months return full time to the barracks for winter training.  

Do you see North Korea  having problems with welfare scroungers ?  under age pregnacies that the tax payer has to foot the bill for ?

Do you see them paying for Joe blogs to rock up on their border and claim a house and income because a war has broken out ?

Do you see them letting an imigrant change their countries ways to suit their religion and culture ? 

Many things i do see is that lots of North Koreans would die for their leader,  although it will be a mixture of some fear and some love for the dictator ! 

What does our goverment do for us,  other that feather their own nests and destroy our country,  embarking on a crusade of letting the work shy get away with things and other cultures hide behind political correctness to change our country for their own intrests. 

It is not always a matter of simply black and white ,  I think sometimes we the West are the ones who are thinking backwards imo.

 

 

 

Edited September 17, 2017 by silverfrost

[USAndretti42]

I don't see how starting a nuclera war would help North Korea or its leader so I don'tsee it happening. Instead, having nuclear weapons and the means ro dleiver them makes his position safer.  No one can afford a power vacuum there now and let those weapons fall into the hands of terrorists who have no territory to worry about and who don't care about dying.

[Jacques]

 

I know that the argument of a country or a population being in need of a very hard and sometimes brutal leadership has been said many times for various groups of people. Personally, I think nearly all people in this World just want a healthy happy life for themselves and their Family. Not needing to be neither famous nor super rich. Just enough to sustain a happy and healthy life. Save a few, of WHO some are either in power or brutal enough to spread their belief to others either by violence or by brainwashing.

During the American invasion of Okinawa, the story of japanese soldiers being very fanatic and not mind dyeing, was told. Well, most soldiers were probably very scared of being executed by their own. I don't think the ordinary japanese had any intention of bothering anyone else outside Japan, minus probably a few areas of recent war against korea or china, where sufferings were still being remembered.

I don't think that the West have the perfect solution to how anyone should live, neither individuals nor countries. Each country should decide for themselves.

I also don't see why failures in the western way of organising and executing their power and daily life, and the many faulst we do in our part of the World, is an explanation or some sort of justification as to how a nation like nk are surpressing their own population. Remember china's campaign "the great leap forward", where in effect the dictatorship extermianted 45 million chinese people in fr years. The biggest mass murder in history. Nowadays they murder end sterilise and remove the original population in for example Tibet. They call it a chinese region.. China have killed over 1,2 millions tibetans, and what is the answer of the West? None. A very loud zero. Sick. Even if it was all a lie, they stillinvaded a soverign country. And we said nothing. Nill. What we demonstrate, is not a defence of democracy and the spreading of that, but a political lie to gain ressources.

So tell me, that there is ample reasons to sustain the suffering of ordinary nk Citizens? I think not.

Abother point: what if one of these nk missiles drop Down because of an error and land in the middle of say Sapporo or Asahikawa? "Oh sorry, it was a defect Electronic module..."

Hm...

Cheers,

Jacques.

[silverfrost]

The thing with Tibet Jacques,  China used this place as a fighting ground,  And still will do in the future.   The heart of China will always be protected.  Everything else is just a buffer zone around them.  Hence why China is not to keen to push North Korea as they already dislike having the American forces in south Korea been so close to their border.   They are indeed probably worried that if the Americans attack North Korea and ground troops got used, they would indeed have Western troops sitting on their buffer zone. 

North Korea exports 83 percent of its trade to China,  So China is indeed and has been in a strong postion for many years to put a stop to Kim by reducing the goods purchased from them,  which would of been an easy way of sorting this imo. 

 

[Jacques]

Yes, and they could install a less brutal regime, and maintain their bufferzone. Oh well, we see russia's dictator doing the same in their old former illegalle invaded occupied covereign nations like ukraine, to make their own ressourced and oceac access greater, while expanding or securing their own bufferzone. But the population? the dictators don't give a toss. For the West for example, it would be a disaster to include turkey in mainland europe, as they will minimize their own bufferzone, and we see turkeys dictator becoming more and ore radical, more and more violent, killing his own countrymen.

I think other solutions are in dire need.

What do you mean china using Tibet as a fighting ground? WHO are their "enemy" in that particular zone? I see it more like minerals and other ressources, but I am interested in knowing this.

Cheers,

Jacques.

[silverfrost]

Regarding fighting ground,  I mean that would be the area of choice for battle,  China would gladly use this area to stop a frontal assault and not give a toss if the area got wiped off the map, no matter how many Chinese troops they had sent in to fight back the West or what ever Force was heading for China.  

In theory conventional warfare is dead though,  The cold war days are over and the use of infantry troops.artillery and main battle tanks are long over.   Sadly it is either urban warfare from now on regarding the middle east or the use of much larger strikes, which would sadly mean WW3.  And i would hate to see the chain reaction from that one.  

The Russians i understand,  and to be honest i think they know what the plague is that troubles the modern world today, or at least what is the biggest threat to the modern world.   

Strange, complicated times ahead,   Sort one area and as soon as that is done,  another one pops up,  just has a massive knock on effect.  Probably not the best suggestion but i would personally think North Korea would make a pretty good dog on a leash to deal with the middle east,  just throw him a bone every now and then to keep him happy.  I would much rather have crazy Koreans running about the middle east than crazy isis.  

I think if anyone can convert folks back from Islam it would be the crazy Kims Regime  

 

[Bibs]

Who would have expected this a few months ago...

[Barrykearley]

Think folks need to back off criticism of trump.

a dick he might be - but he is getting change 

[ramjet]

Is he though? I thought some of the latest media reports were saying that the NK denuclearisation did not seem to occurring. In fact, the opposite?

Meeting the SK guy is just another way of saying "See how nice we are now?"

NK is lovely.......

Maybe I am wrong. I do live in Australia ya' know.

[pete]

On 15/09/2017 at 19:01, Advantage said:

Unfortunately this isn't a Hollywood movie and there's slim to no chance of any foreign power being able to insert a squad of hitmen into North Korea to assassinate Fatty. The logistics are impossible  and can you imagine what any captured soldiers would go through in front of North Korea's television cameras?

Looks like he maybe dead

[andydclements]

Or at least brain dead following surgery.

[100th_Idiot]

The heart surgery was unsuccessful.

 

 

 

The couldn't find one.

[Advantage]

"Alive and well" . 

https://news.yahoo.com/north-koreas-kim-alive-well-seoul-004743452.html

Chinny reckon.

[andydclements]

The idea of him being isolated due to COVID-19 seems plausible despite NK allegedly not having any cases.

[100th_Idiot]

He better hope he doesn't have it. The NK plan for combating COVID-19 is very effective at preventing spread

 

Cough

Bang

Cough

Bang

Cough

Bang

 

No Rona spread.

[DDubya]