Has anyone actually weighed a G. Car?

[GTK]

 

Been searching topics as far back as '05 [may have given up prematurely] but I can't find anything relevant. Has anyone weighed their standard S1 or S2 Esprit?

LEW says the S1 weighed 898kg, this was the figure from Lotus. The Walton book from '82 says the same but then Walton was having direct contact with Lotus while researching the book. Was this a fanciful number in the same vein as the quoted 0-60 times?

Again both the Walton book and LEW agree that the S2 was 2248lbs [although the conversion to kg on LEW is a little out 😆]. The figure is 1019kg. That's a 121kg difference between the two models. 

The S2 has;

• Speedline wheels [1" wider than the Wolfrace items]
• Larger radiator
• Reworked front splitter
• Wider seats
• Smiths gauges
• Two headlamp motors
• SD1 rear lights
• Air intake 'ears' and associated ducting
• A digital clock
• An extra wing mirror
• An engine cover with a hatch in it

If it were any other company I'd just take the figure for granted, but really... 121kg weight increase in a car that they didn't build any increase in power into?

So say the extra weight goes like this;

• Wheels 4kg [combined]
• Radiator [and associated water] 4kg
• Reworked front splitter 5kg
• Wider seats 4.5kg
• Smiths gauges 1.5kg
• 2nd headlamp motor 3.5kg
• SD1 rear lights 1kg [combined]
• Air intake 'ears' [and associated ducting] 4kg
• Digital clock [and associated wiring] 1kg
• Extra wing mirror [and associated wiring] 2kg
• Engine cover 5kg

I think those weights are over estimated in many cases, still the total is only 35.5kg.

It doesn't stack up.

I don't think I've missed anything, there's a little extra metal in the chassis under the engine in the S2, but we're talking in grams here not kg. Let's call it 36kg total weight increase, hell let's call it 50kg. Still a 71kg discrepancy. That's an adult passenger. The calculation for weight loss to equivalent hp gain has it that dropping 60kg would be like gaining 10hp. 

Yeah yeah, Lotus's figure weren't to be taken too seriously, but it's interesting no? 

 

 

 

[silverfrost]

Bare in mind most Factory weights are always Dry also  898  sounds far lighter than i would of thought 

[GTK]

 

I assumed we're talking kerb weight and isn't that wet, as in all fluids and half a fill of fuel?

Either way, yeah 898kg does seem low.

[Paul Coleman]

It won't account for the extra but the S2 exhaust was quite different. I think the rear box was bigger and it had a mid box which the S1 didn't have. 

Edited September 16, 2018 by Paul Coleman

[GTK]

 

There are some dense and heavy sheets of sound deadening behind the seats on my car, you'll know Paul if they're common to the S1 as well, but I thought maybe they were part of the effort to make the S2 more refined? Even with those and the exhaust I still think we're within the 50kg above.

I'll be watching the weight of mine very closely as I rebuild. I'm interested to see what it's going to weigh when I'm done, but it'd be all the better to know what an original S2 weighs in the wild.

[Fridge]

Yes, interesting @GTK

An updated, but not conclusive list may be:

Speedline wheels [1" wider than the Wolfrace items]
Larger radiator
Reworked front splitter
Different bottom boot floor *** S2 accommodated the spare wheel further forward ***
*** S1 had a full-size front wheel, not the space saver of the S2 ***
Wider seats *** were they? ***
Smiths gauges

*** depending upon your S2, the S1 had a simpler, single height centre console ***
Two headlamp motors
SD1 rear lights
Air intake 'ears' and associated ducting
*** Carb air box different, with only 1 duct I think ***
*** S2 exhaust had a larger back box, and mid-section restrictor ***
*** S2 had a redesigned rear valance to accommodate the larger rear silencer ***

*** no battery box on early S1s ***
A digital clock *** S1s had a clock, at least mine does, though marginally narrower set in to the header rail, not with it's own 'bezel' ***
An extra wing mirror *** mirror's were electric and larger on the late S1s and S2 ***
An engine cover with a hatch in it *** totally different, and simpler on the S1, straps just Pirelli rubber ***
*** Some S1's seem to have had plywood boot boards, with carpet covering, including 2 pieces covering the back of the rear lights ***

Not all of the above would account for a huge weight difference between the two series cars, but it all adds up.

I agree with @silverfrost, with today's shenanigans regarding economy figures quoted by manufacturers, the weights may not have included fluids, spare wheel etc.

Don't forget that 'Sundym' tint on that S2 glass either!!!

My S1 has that thick rubber sound deadening on the cabin side of the rear bulkhead.

 

[GTK]

Not sure about the space saver you mention Dave, S2's have a proper spare made by Speedline [pic attached ]. 

Yeah fair point, the seats may not have been wider overall but they had padding reshaped to make them wider around the hips I believe. Probably a weight loss rather than gain, but I was just trying to list every change. I've thought of something else since - the S2 got a different cam profile to help with emissions. Again probably not a weight consideration. The S2's digital clock was definitely a new thing, there was a fuss made of it. 

I just pulled this quote from a Esprit S1/S2 buyers guide article from Hemming's in 2011 - 

           "  ...independent testers had a hard time matching Lotus's initial performance numbers: 0-60 times in the mid-8-second range rather than the high 6s; top speeds of 124 MPH instead of Lotus's promised 138 MPH, a curb weight 10 percent porkier than its one-ton advertisement suggested. (In 1977, Car got a 6,000-mile S1 Esprit to 60 in 7.4 seconds with a 132 MPH top speed.) Mix into this the idea that Lotus shifted at 7,300 RPM, 300 revs past the redline, to get its numbers, and you suspect that the company was supplying bench-racing figures that weren't quite in line with reality. (Road & Track's 9.2-second 0-60 in their emissions-choked tester was "equivalent to the last Maserati Merak we tested.")....  "

So that suggests the S1 was billed as 1000kg's, and independent tests found it to be 1100kg?

 

[Fridge]

That is Lotus' idea of a space saver in 1978. Ahead of the curve. I've no idea of its size or weight, just what I've read in many books on the car. My knowledge is very much limited to S1s TBH.

 

My car has a digital clock. Not sure if 1976 cars did. @Paul Coleman will know.

Edited September 23, 2018 by Fridge

[silverfrost]

Was the spare in the front not also part incorperated as crash impact protection ?    

[Fridge]

It's certainly located further forward than in an S1, so it wouldn't surprise me if that claim had been made.

[silverfrost]

I think it came up on a sad time when Fishy an old member on here had a bit of a front end bump in his G Turbo and the motorway barrier ate the front of his car, the picture showed that the spare tyre sticking through the damaged front end   Which iirc brought up the suggestion or comments that it was used /incorperated as collision protection.

The only ones i have seen collision wise from the factory was the video footage of the G cars been turned upside down to see/check that no fuel came out !

[Paul Coleman]

20 hours ago, Fridge said:

That is Lotus' idea of a space saver in 1978. Ahead of the curve. I've no idea of its size or weight, just what I've read in many books on the car. My knowledge is very much limited to S1s TBH.

 

My car has a digital clock. Not sure if 1976 cars did. @Paul Coleman will know.

No, no clock was ever fitted to my car. The Esprit is not really that light weight when you look at the Elan at only 680kg the 1000kg (or 1100kg) of the Esprit seems to make it a bit of a bloater!

Edited September 24, 2018 by Paul Coleman

[GTK]

Yeah the more I learned about Lotus the more I realised the Esprit represents a completely different era in their output. That said, along with the Elite and Eclat it brings a new level of comfort and refinement [is the latter acceptable to say  ]

The Elan I suppose is a much smaller car though, and if I could get my head around where this notional weight difference between the S1 and S2 Esprits comes from I might be better able to decide if the 300+kg weight difference between the Elan and Esprit is a big jump.

[Jacques]

It may be nice as a thought, but honestly I don't think the S1 Esprit ever weighed 900 kilo in real life, coolant, battery and oils, but no fuel. 1000 sounds more realistic to me, also in relation to the S2. My old Golf2 with small engine, litte equipment etc, weighed just under 900 with only a couple of liters of gasoline, measured on a scale. That was done when the Danish state still controlled the MOT system, and they had very strict rules for calibration etc. Now, many years later it's privatised, and the MOT station is closed Down, so unfortunately I cannot go a weigh the Esprit.

It would appear to me, that the S1 Esprit is a more solid and complicated Construction than a Golf2 from 1982 (one of the first ever made, later imported to Denmark).

I may stand corrected though.

Kind regards,

Jacques

[GTK]

A search outside of TLF threw up a thread I hadn't seen before. @Tony K mentions having weighed his federal S1 [without Federal ad ons] and the figure being 2180lbs [989kg] and having the old title for another S1 with Federal ad ons that lists the weight at 2185lbs [991kg].

That sounds much more realistic in terms of the weight difference between S1 and S2. Approx 30kg tallies with my [unscientific] estimates. I just forklifted my S2 onto a first floor level [video here] but unfortunately the lift didn't have a scales fitted.

[Tony K]

Hi @GTK, yes, I took it to a place that sells landscaping stone.  You drive your vehicle onto the scale, receive a ticket, load your vehicle with stone, back onto the scale, and pay.  I pulled up in the Esprit.  Should have seen the look on their faces.   The scale went in 20 lb. increments.    I don't remember how much fuel I had at the time, maybe it says so in the original post.  

[drdoom]

Took my '64 Elan to the regional landfill ( "tip", as the Brits will call it ) years back. They have a drive-on scale for obvious reasons and were not at all troubled to satisfy my curiosity, each axle separately for weight distribution as well as total.

[GTK]

59 minutes ago, Tony K said:

Should have seen the look on their faces.   

There used to be two just up the road; one for the farmers selling grain, the other for the trucks coming off the ships, but both long gone.

31 minutes ago, drdoom said:

Took my '64 Elan to the regional landfill. 

So...?? Bet it was about 14oz 😆

I thought of something I missed in the original round of S2 add ons; the mid silencer.

I've just pulled the body off my S2. [video here]. I'm going to buy four/six cheap bathroom scales to compliment a 5kg max digital scales I already have for smaller stuff. I'll weigh everything during the build and we'll get as definitive a figure as we're ever likely to. For an S2 at least. 

[GTK]

Two interesting developments. I got my hands on an original [1979] Esprit S2 Owner's Handbook.... 

 

The wiki page for Kerb weight seems to have been written with the Esprit in mind;

 

 

[Paul Coleman]

I wonder how much an Esprit would have weighed if it had been made from pressed steel body panels. Is 6mm thick (guess) fibreglass bodywork really that much lighter than 0.9mm steel I wonder?

[Fridge]

1 hour ago, Paul Coleman said:

I wonder how much an Esprit would have weighed if it had been made from pressed steel body panels. Is 6mm thick (guess) fibreglass bodywork really that much lighter than 0.9mm steel I wonder?

Aluminium would be a better equivalent, but not in 1976!

Though I suppose a Superleggria  design predates it. Not sure how much a DB4/5/6 body and frame weighs.

I know a similar steel body is significantly heavier than a fibreglass body shell. 

It only took 4 pals to lift mine back onto the chassis, and that was very easily done in 30 seconds.

[GTK]

On a whim myself and one of the body shop lads tried lifting the body, just the two of us. We did it easily, one at either end. I'd be surprised if there's more than 200kg in it, and I think something like a Mk1 Golf shell would be more like 300kg. I've read Golf enthusiasts posts that support that, some suggest up to 360kg bare.

Then again, the Golf obviously doesn't need a separate chassis.

[Fridge]

Golf, being a monocoque, also includes the "chassis" too of course.

Anyway, get back to work George.

Like I didn't.

I went to a local cars 'n' no coffee event in North Yorkshire instead.

[tkathulevej]

I lifted the body off my S2 two times being basically alone… just having 'wifey' placing and moving supports into right places during process. It was heavy work, but manageable. - So no, the Esprit body can certainly not be considered 'elephantic' 🙂

BUT I do seem to remember having read, that the individual Esprit bodies differed quite in weight depending on build method (hand lay up contra VARI). I've always thought that's what accounted for the biggest difference/step-up in weight between S1/S2. - But now where DID I read this?  Was it in Jeremy Waltons 'The official Story' ?  Can't seem to find it now… 😕

Br /tka, DK

BTW with engine only two numbers away form yours George (15238. Just noted in E.36 today 😉 )

Edited November 25, 2018 by tkathulevej

[GTK]

Double posting but we've got the beginning of some answers here finally. I'll weigh the body next, can't wait to see what that comes out at! then all the little bits and pieces as I work my way through the resto.