Gearbox noise changing down to 2nd

[clowesy]

Morning all, first time poster having purchased a V6S roadster in mid-February.

I'm loving the car so far, but I have some concerns over a particular noise I'm getting from the gearbox. I'm aware having read numerous threads on various forums that the gearbox can be somewhat agricultural in terms of the noises it makes, particularly at low engine speeds. However the noise I'm experiencing seems to be something different. When changing down into second gear, there is a noise which I can only describe as sounding like a circular saw buzzing through a piece of wood, and this only happens if the engine speed is allowed to drop between the gear change.

If I'm lazily approaching a junction for example in third gear, press the clutch, engine speed drops to 1000-1200 rpm, select second gear, as the clutch re-engages and the engine speed rises, the sound occurs. If I heel and toe or blip the throttle to rev match, there is no noise at all. The gearbox is also perfectly slick in all gears (more so than expected given some reviews of the car), no crunching etc. and the clutch feels fine. I get no vibration through the gear lever (cable rather than solid linkage so perhaps I wouldn't anyway) or through the clutch pedal when the noise occurs either.

I've raised the issue with the dealer, who have said that they are a noisy gearbox and that nothing seems untoward. Just wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience and whether the cause was found to be anything sinister.

Cheers in advance!

[CraigWright_UK]

Hi,

I've found myself researching this particular 'characteristic', having collected a Sport 350 Coupe on Saturday. It doesn't do it with higher revs, and when it does do it, it's not accompanied by any harshness through the gear stick.

Having spoken with the seller, he's confirmed it's always been like that [to the point he contacted the dealer on his way home from collecting it when new, due to this]. For reference this car is a '17' plate with ~5200miles.

Coming from a Cayman S, I'm finding myself researching various noises I'm not familiar with, but up to now they all appear to be of the "they all do that Sir" variety

 

Craig

[Bibs]

Welcome chaps and congrats on the new cars! 

This is a characteristic of the gearbox and nothing to worry about.

Remember that the Exige has less sound deadening than most other performance cars you are more likely to hear a lot more from the engine bay than you're used to. 

[clowesy]

Thanks for the welcome.

I'm coming from a Z4M Coupe myself, so certainly the levels of NVH are significantly different. It's reassuring that everything I've read, and everyone I've spoken to, suggests that it's nothing to worry about.

[TonyKL]

I questioned my dealer about this noise also and was told it was normal, also been in an evora 400 and that made the same noise.

[ramjet]

Welcome to TLF guys.

You should both duck over to the Introductions area and say hi in there as well.

Any photos are always greatly appreciated.  

[313]

Rather sounds like the clutch release bearing problem for me. Have you read this and compared the sound you are hearing with the vids:

 

[clowesy]

Having watched the video and read the thread, that is indeed the exact noise my car makes.

My car has done 30,000 miles (formerly on plate V6 XGS, perhaps it's known to the forum?) and based on what is in the service folder there's no evidence to suggest the clutch has ever been replaced. The thread posted above seems to end without any confirmation of the source of the noise or what the solution is. Is there any? Is it just annoyance or something to be concerned about.

[313]

I had the noise myself and got a clutch replacement within the warranty. Car had 20.000 km at the time last year. 

 

[Bibs]

It's not the clutch that makes the noise so I'd be surprised if that cured it Marc. If it did, you more than likely had a different issue in the first place.

[clowesy]

36 minutes ago, Bibs said:

It's not the clutch that makes the noise so I'd be surprised if that cured it Marc. If it did, you more than likely had a different issue in the first place.

Bibs, just to confirm, is noise you're referring to the same as that in the video on the other thread as posted by ROJ?

[313]

I'm referring to the noise posted by ROJ and redlancer. I had the same.

My dealer knew that sound already and successfully filed a warranty claim for a new clutch and clutch pressure plate based on video and sound files recorded in my car. That's all I can say. After clutch replacement the sound is gone.

[clowesy]

Ok, thanks for the confirmation. I purchased the car from Oakmere who supply a 3 month warranty with their used cars. I noticed this noise only a week or so after picking it up, so it was probably present on the test drive and I just didn't notice it. I've emailed Oakmere a link to the video along with a description of the issue, so I'll see what they come back with.

Out of curiosity, did your dealer ever give any indication as to what part of the clutch assembly was causing the noise? Also, when they replaced it did they mention whether the clutch was excessively worn or anything like that?

[313]

Actually not. Fair point, I am going to ask that. They said, that they need to keep the parts for some months.

[redlancer]

Hi,

I had the clutch, flywheel and release bearing changed under warranty last year.  At the time I got the impression this wasn’t a common issue as dealer hadn’t seen it before.

The noise points to it being the release bearing.

id say it was there from new, I noticed it whilst still running in the car.

lotus themselves came out to listen thinking it was the known noise at idle, to only say this is different.

the noise is still present, although it’s not as common or loud.  It was ok for the 1st 500 miles after the new clutch.

the new clutch is a lot better than the original.  Feels more solid.  The original fault could be heard in all gear change downs with 3rd to 2nd loudest.

 Now lotus state it’s a characteristic of the gearbox and not a fault.  So what was a warranty change last year isn’t 3 months later.  And if it’s a characteristic, why was this not known over the last 4-5 years.  Sounds to me like a quality/tolerance issue somewhere.  

Mines an early 2017 with  7000 miles on it now.

Would be interesting if the 410 or 430 exiges have this issue as they have a different clutch.

I'm seeing if like the original it gets worse as I put more miles on the car before going back to Lotus. 

I would of thought they’d want to sort the problem, as I’m aware of people walking away from Lotus due to other gearbox woes.  That has crossed my mind if it doesn’t have a satisfactory end.

i was going to see if I could work out if it was a batch or cars or a potential batch of parts.

Graham

 

On 28/03/2019 at 01:12, 313 said:

Actually not. Fair point, I am going to ask that. They said, that they need to keep the parts for some months.

You say the noise has gone, how many miles have you done since?

[313]

Just about 1000km since...

[clowesy]

Thanks for the detailed response, Graham, much appreciated!

Oakmere have since come back to me with the same diagnosis, that it is likely the release bearing that is the cause of the noise. I'm waiting for the service/aftersales manager to get back to me and they're going to arrange to take a look at the car.

As you describe with your car, the noise does not happen 109% of the time. I tend to naturally drive around it anyway as I'm so used to rev matching on all of my down shifts, but if I'm lazily approaching junctions or roundabouts and just change straight down, I might get the noise 50% of the time. It doesn't seem to make any difference whether the car is warm or cold, or whether it's been driven hard or not.

[Guest]

On 30/03/2019 at 09:50, redlancer said:

Hi,

I had the clutch, flywheel and release bearing changed under warranty last year.  At the time I got the impression this wasn’t a common issue as dealer hadn’t seen it before.

The noise points to it being the release bearing.

id say it was there from new, I noticed it whilst still running in the car.

lotus themselves came out to listen thinking it was the known noise at idle, to only say this is different.

the noise is still present, although it’s not as common or loud.  It was ok for the 1st 500 miles after the new clutch.

the new clutch is a lot better than the original.  Feels more solid.  The original fault could be heard in all gear change downs with 3rd to 2nd loudest.

 Now lotus state it’s a characteristic of the gearbox and not a fault.  So what was a warranty change last year isn’t 3 months later.  And if it’s a characteristic, why was this not known over the last 4-5 years.  Sounds to me like a quality/tolerance issue somewhere.  

Mines an early 2017 with  7000 miles on it now.

Would be interesting if the 410 or 430 exiges have this issue as they have a different clutch.

I'm seeing if like the original it gets worse as I put more miles on the car before going back to Lotus. 

I would of thought they’d want to sort the problem, as I’m aware of people walking away from Lotus due to other gearbox woes.  That has crossed my mind if it doesn’t have a satisfactory end.

i was going to see if I could work out if it was a batch or cars or a potential batch of parts.

Graham

 

You say the noise has gone, how many miles have you done since?

I’ve been driving around in a dealership courtesy 410 with 1000 miles on it for 2 weeks and also my own 430 Cup with 5k miles doesn’t have this characteristic. 

[redlancer]

On 01/04/2019 at 09:12, clowesy said:

Thanks for the detailed response, Graham, much appreciated!

Oakmere have since come back to me with the same diagnosis, that it is likely the release bearing that is the cause of the noise. I'm waiting for the service/aftersales manager to get back to me and they're going to arrange to take a look at the car.

As you describe with your car, the noise does not happen 109% of the time. I tend to naturally drive around it anyway as I'm so used to rev matching on all of my down shifts, but if I'm lazily approaching junctions or roundabouts and just change straight down, I might get the noise 50% of the time. It doesn't seem to make any difference whether the car is warm or cold, or whether it's been driven hard or not.

Will be curious how you get on as yours will be under Oakmere's warranty.
As for the car I know the previous owner, if its a yellow roadster originally from Silverstone, although haven't seen him for a while.  The car will have wanted for nothing, he loved it that much he used it a lot more than expected.  It was a PAX ride in his Elise that started my Lotus ownership and my daughter going out in this one that had her saying I have to get one

Edited April 2, 2019 by redlancer

[Dan.G]

On 25/03/2019 at 11:44, Bibs said:

Welcome chaps and congrats on the new cars! 

This is a characteristic of the gearbox and nothing to worry about.

Remember that the Exige has less sound deadening than most other performance cars you are more likely to hear a lot more from the engine bay than you're used to. 

Good advice for new and old owners.. I'm still getting used to mine!

[ramjet]

I have listened to a few of these videos and I am struggling to see how these are all release bearing issues.

Every car I owned until I was married was a manual.

I have always found a release bearing failure to sound noisy every time the clutch is engaged. At this time there is no axial load on the bearing from the plate fingers and the bearing is freewheeling. When you start to depress the clutch pedal, the bearing gets an axial load on it and most times quietens right down or hisses the entire time that the clutch is disengaged.

3,000 revs and aggressive driving being the cause is garbage. It is a release bearing. Sealed and prepacked with grease. It is only under load when the clutch is being pressed

It would be far more likely that a cheaper bearing was used or a bad batch.

Changing down? The bearing only speeds up rotationally as the clutch is re-engaged. This is what it is designed to do.

If a simple change of a release bearing is fixing it, I would suggest that the whole story is not being told to the customer.

[rafphillips]

On 04/04/2019 at 21:52, Dan.G said:

Good advice for new and old owners.. I'm still getting used to mine!

I 3rd this advice. 

I had an original Evora, noisy clutch lotus replaced apparent failed bearing, just as noisy afterwards.

7 years later the Exige is just as loud if not louder that that was. You can hear allot more clutch, engine and gear box than allot of other cars in these.