Door removal advice please!

[Neil Potter]

Evening all,

I’ve always had trouble with the drivers door not quite shutting and being badly aligned.  There is play in the pivot bushes (can lift the door slightly on the hinge) so I’ve finally got round to replacing them.

Door is off the car and there is just enough room to remove the nuts at the top and bottom of the hinge pin.  Having done that though, the pin and bushes are stuck fast. Can’t get a hammer to the pin or a drill to the bushes to try and free things up.

Anyone else faced this problem?

I’d hoped it might all just fall apart!

i am really hoping there’s an alternative to dismantling the entire door to get the beam on the bench.  I just know it won’t go back together again easily or with the same geometry.  And I’ll probably break something.

thanks for any advice or moral support!

neil

[Erikl]

can you post a pic?

wondering if there is a tool we can re-pupose to help

[DaveyT]

Have a good search through the Esprit section if you haven’t already.

Someone had exactly this problem within the last year and, iirc, there was quite a good follow up.

Good luck!

[PhilW]

On 02/02/2020 at 23:05, Neil Potter said:

 

I’d hoped it might all just fall apart!

 

Neil

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣  You cant of owned an Esprit for long.

 

Good luck though.  I'm sure I read about these and the rest of the unit being 3D printed though.  Would be worth searching.

[Neil Potter]

Thanks for the comments folks. 

I had a look for anyone facing the same problem and drew a blank.  Even if the bushes could be pulled out somehow, I don't think it would be an easy press fit back, so I am psyched for the dismantling.  Window motor is out (now I understand why there was a big crude hole in the inner door skin - to get at that bottom nut!), and now just trying to find time to pull out the frame.  I have the exortionate plastic bushes for the hinge but spent some time looking for the bronze ones mentioned in other posts.  The 13/16"" outer diameter seems hard to get.  Have made some enquiries though as I'm buggered if I'm doing this again anytime soon.  I've managed to lose one of the metal dumbbells out of the window switch already.

Phil - sadly I've had the Esprit long enough to know that any job takes much longer than ever thought possible.  But given how much play there was in the door I thought the bushes were mush - seems not!

Will post any interesting discoveries along the way.  Now I'm here I'm going to fix the window alignment (it doesn't easily go back into the top rear corner of the frame) and do the relay mod for the motor...

[ragingfool35]

i recently had more doors off and could not get the stud to move so had to unbolt the assembly from the car.  The studs rotated as expected but lightly hammering did not budge them through the bushing.

[Neil Potter]

So far, not as bad as I feared.  The frame came out fairly easily and is in ok shape - no serious rust.  It’s very unwieldy.  Am going to treat and repaint this weekend and put new channel felt in.

Once the door beam was out it was easy enough to tap out the hinge pin.  The bushes didn’t need much prompting to fall apart once the pin was out.

I sent the pin, plus the big brackets and the support rod connecting the two, to be cleaned up and plated.  Now they’re back the hinge pin itself has a lot of pitting on one end which has been masked by bits of plastic from the bush.  I feel I need to replace the pin given how inaccessible it is.  

Meanwhile I reckon one reason for my slow window is the carry plate and its four nylon pulley wheels. One of these had worn through so was a drag against the guide “blade” as the plate moved. Have replaced the wheel and the one opposite, and the play is much reduced and its smooth. Worth emerying the blade too.

Electric motor is fine and the relay mod is built and tested. New terminals on the motor should help too.

All these parts (pin, pulley wheels and rivets, hinge bushes) are easily fabricable for folks with the right tools - they’ll save a packet. 

In cleaning the alloy beam, I noticed it can take a serious shine if you’re into hidden part detailing!

Onwards!

[PhilW]

Neil

Tacking the slow window on one of my cars. '84 Esprit.  Goes down fine but up is not good.  Would be very interested in any further learnings you might like to share.

 

[Neil Potter]

Hi Phil,

A few pointers which might be relevant to your G car, now mine is all back and working much better:

-Hotwire the motor first, see how much voltage you are losing through the electrics.  The relay mod really helps, or try cleaning the switches/remaking terminals.

After checking on the motor, try these:

-Degrease and regrease all the moving parts you can see.  I don't know how much this actually helped on mine, but the old gunk was more putty than grease.  I replaced with silicone grease.

- Watch the motor bracket when the motor is in use.  Mine still flexes a bit, but was much reduced on tightening up the bottom of the 3 bolts - which on mine is a real pig to get to. (I think cutting off the middle leg of the windown frame just below the mounting point would help access, don't know why I didn't do it myself on refitting).  This helps the alignment, so the motor is putting more power into moving the window.

- I replaced 2 of the 4 pulley wheels on the carriage plate, because I'm tight.  Again, it helps with alignment, though probably replacing all 4 is best. 

- Don't be afraid to persuade the window frame into better alignment, eg by pushing top rear corner towards the car when the glass is down.  Mine has had a tendency for the glass to miss the channel when going back up, particularly when driving due to air pressure  It's better now, but I still put a bit of silicone spray on the new felt channel to help it back in.

- The only other thing I can suggest, which I didn't try on mine, is to replace the wheel on the end of the bar the motor moves.  This isn't a perfect fit in the channel along the bottom of the glass, possibly as it's worn down, so it may push the window a bit in and out as well as up and down.

Good luck with it and let us know how you get on

neil

[Neil Potter]

Final thoughts on the door removal adventure:

-The critical bits of removal and replacement/alignment benefit from having an assistant!

- Label all the bits you remove from the door, careful with marking which spacers are between beam and window frame, and frame and nut.  Helps to draw a diagram.  You'll need to put stud and tapping plates back into the beam in a particular order to make sure they're all in the right place.

-When refitting... Fit hinge pin, bushes, and bracket to the beam; then put the beam on the car in rough alignment, then refit the door shell.  Then plumb the wires back in through a new grommet (old one won't survive removal). You'll likely need to make a new mounting plate for that grommet and rivet it in place - this is pretty much impossible if you only come to this last (as I did).  Then fit the additional hinge support pin (the wires go between that pin and the beam) and the check strap.

- You don't need to remove the latch-side plastic finisher at the top of the door to do all this, though it looks like you do.

- There's a metal plate on both sides of the door shell, riveted to the shell, where the screws holding the door card to the shell are supposed to go.  Someone at the factory had missed those plates by half an inch, which is probably why my door card has always felt a bit insecure.  Surprised I hadn't noticed before.  For both sides I drilled a small hole through card and plate, put in an M3 rawlnut and a bolt.  Much better.  Repairing the old holes in the card was quite satisfying too.

Enjoy!

[Codriver]

 

Neil what is the relay mod for the windows ?

Thanks Cyril

[Neil Potter]

Hi cyril, the mod is where you patch two relays between the drivers window switch and the motor so the switch just trips one or other relay rather than having the full 10amp current go through the switch. Avoids voltage loss through the switch contacts. There are diagrams on how to do it eleswhere in the forum I believe.

[drdoom]

Agree with Neil and would add that 10A through the switch contacts is not conducive to longevity of the switches. Better to use relays than have to source replacement switches.

Cheers

[910Esprit]

I've got an early 84 spec bodyshell, which means I need to remove the drivers door to remove the electric aerial, which has just packed up.   I can see that there are 2 large bolts that appear to secure the entire hinge (and door assembly)  to the body.

Can anyone confirm if it is 'simply' a case of removing the 2 bolts to get the door & hinge off in one piece?  And are there any pitfall such as non-captive nut plates?

If this approach is sound, I'll use the engine crane to support the weight while I swap out the old aerial.   Ta!