Brexit

[Barrykearley]

Wow - now that's a tump of words good man. All of it spot on.

i just hope it's out - they can all stick it - we will be fine. We will in fact be Greater Britian out than in.  All this talk is simply bollox, smoke and mirrors with a heavy heap of piffle. The spin doctors and big businesses are all playing dirty - it's a complete disgrace.

we need plain simple facts. Forget the Unknown argument .... That's sh@t as well. We never get the Unknown being banded around as scare tactics at the general election times - and let's face it none of us really know what the winning side will do - manifestos have been universally ignored for years!!

out we will be free. Out we can deport criminals - do what we want with benefits - scrap the human rights act for murders and terrorists - limit rubbish imports - deal with eu tax fraud - stop sending benefits cash to Eastern Europe. Best of all - we can stick two fingers up to hitlers reincarnate grand-daughter Angela Merkel.

 

[Andyww]

All true. But apparently for a large number of people roaming charges and clean beaches are the important issues.

 

[Barrykearley]

Oh yes - bloody forgot them bent cucumbers we'd have to put up with.........

or worse - the too bent bananas.....

thank god for Europe.....

[C8RKH]

15 minutes ago, Andyww said:

All true. But apparently for a large number of people roaming charges and clean beaches are the important issues.

 

I guess the old saying of " you get the govt/politicians you deserve" is true then.

I'm sure some thick wastral b@stards will vote purely on the colour of the logo for in or out. Jeez....

 

[Andyww]

In the EU there is a "Council of Europe" and a "European Council". There is a website which explains that they are definitely NOT the same thing.

There is also the "Council of the European Union".

It reminds me so much of the Life of Brian "Judean Peoples Front" vs "Peoples Front of Judea". 

The similarities are endless, the fact they sit around in meetings all day which achieve nothing. The EU cant even make up its mind where its HQ should be and the whole lot moves between Strasbourg and Brussels at huge cost every month. It would be funny if it were not so serious.

 

[franjipane]

 Andy, that must have taken an age to put down!  But I'm not sure why you think my first post here was aimed at Andy W, if it was in response to Andy W I would have mentioned his name.  

Well done for doing your research mate and forming your own opinions.

Andy W, I don't really care about roaming charges mate, in the grand scheme it's a bit of a non-issue, can't say anyone I've discussed the referendum with cares about it.  I think immigration is going to be the decider, that's the thing most people seem interested in.

[C8RKH]

No, you've just miss read my post (I should have been clearer). You said 3 types of people on here I was saying I was type 4 then explaining why, focusing on fscts rather than anecdotes / press spin.

No issues for me

This quote from Hollande scared me today:

 

warns against an EU exit, saying membership offers more "security and greater capacity to project power".

This is back to the Single Federal State. I thought we projected collective power through NATO not the EU. Silly me.....

[franjipane]

Gotcha, but to be clear I didn't say people on here.

anyhow, I'm off to have a drop of wine

[Bibs]

Liam Fox was on R4 today and said that the Le Touquet Agreement (the one that means we check immigration status in France, not the UK) is an agreement made in 2003 between 2 sovereign states and nothing to do with the EU. As with all people heading to the UK all over the world, their immigration status is checked at point of embarkation and not destination and that's the same in France as it is elsewhere. France acknowledge that if they changed this agreement, the amount of asylum seekers heading to the NW of France to 'chance' getting into the UK would increase exponentially and create a humanitarian crisis, it's not going anywhere. 

I'll be voting for us to leave. The main reason is the obvious corruptness of the Brussels gang who are in it for themselves and also such ECHR rulings that mean that we are the only country in the world apart from China where you are guilty unless you can prove your innocence. That, and a million other rules imposed by those who have no interest in the UK other than their own interests. 

[Barrykearley]

thats disgusting

most run down inner city areas have been suffering from this sort of thing for years.

the issues in Calais have been misreported and none of these problems are being discussed properly. The real residents of Calais have no voice - it's a pattern - anyone speaking up against such issues in our country is immediately branded a racist or the like and arrested or harassed by the authorities. There are areas in london and some other big cities that are no go sharia areas.....how is that right.

we must get control of our own country to do something about this.

 

[Kimbers]

Well said Iain Duncan Smith:

EU Stay Campaign "Desperate and Unsubstantiated". 

"The acrimonious manner in which all this has been conducted is troubling, and will I fear have consequences long beyond 23 June," he said.

"After all, such desperate and unsubstantiated claims are now being made that they begin to damage the very integrity of those who make them in the eyes of the public."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35720065

 

[Andyww]

This was the most telling story on the Calais issue. This was not reported by the BBC nor Guardian I suspect.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/10/08/refugee-charity-stops-aid-to-calais-because-97-are-men-with-no-real-reason-to-be-there/

[Jacques]

I think that the UK is not going to sink into the ocean, should you hopefully vote out of the ec.

And come on, as long as there is Money to be made, people will try to do so, and create Companies, trade with each other and so on.

Before the ec, there were plenty of other agreements that made it easier to trade, cross borders etc. This will just arise once more.

I have no problem in showing my passport when crossing a border. At least that would put a (small) stop to illegal crossing of immigrants, smuglers, and other types.

For Christ sake, get out while you have the chance! Take control over your own country, and put a stop to foreing rule. Your ancestors have fought for you and you shouldn't give it away to someone else, just because they have a big pr department and lot's of (your) spending Money.

See you on the other side

Jacques.

[JayEmm]

I recall when the Scottish vote was happening, I very much wanted them to remain "in" but didn't see how that could happen - most people I spoke with wanted "out", and also the "in" campaign was an utter shambles. Not unlike the EU campaign, I think they pushed far too heavy on "things that will go wrong if the others win" rather than trying to sell the merits of their own viewpoint.

[Kimbers]

unfortunately James, there are a large number of people in the UK who not only believe what they read but that are scared by what they are told. Speaking to a few young ladies the other day (I have kids all around 18-25...I wasn't hunting them down) they all believed 100% what they were being told. One said to me "I won't be able to go on holiday to Spain anymore" and another said "I don't want to lose my job so want in!" She worked in retail in a fashion store.

This is what the In campaign is about. They know they won't get the vote of people who stop and think and are intelligent. (I know you want in but thats because you work between here and Europe. 99% of those wanting to vote "In" have absolutely no reason to fear coming out, they have just been scared and pressured into it!

[JayEmm]

Don't forget I am also a German Sleeper agent. When the results come in there'll be a code word and I will automatically report back to headquarters in Munich sehr schnell!

[pete]

Thought so??

[Andyww]

I was with a group of friends in the pub last night and we got around to this subject, all were "out" apart from two, who are non-policical types who dont have a great interest in the way of the world.

So, when asked why they wanted to stay in:

Phil: "I want to stay in because if we come out we will need to show passports when we go on holiday"

Andy: "But we already have to do that, to go to Europe"

Phil: "Oh yes I suppose so. But it will all become much more difficult so I am still voting to stay in"

Dave "I want to stay in because they have got rid of roaming charges"

Andy "Aaaaaarggghhhh!!!!!"

[Barrykearley]

That's gonna save you two pints in a round next time you go to the pub !!

[eclat22]

i feel that the big issue is that after years of spin and lies from all political parties they cannot be trusted to give genuine unbiased information either way. At least by voting out we eliminate the unelected top tier  of leaches which is the European Parliament from dictating to us. I would take it one step further though and shoot 1 out of every 3 MPs and tell the remaining ones that they are next if they don't start working for the public interest rather than their own. I would also link their salaries and pensions to that of the general public, ie if the state pension so given at age 67 then they do not get theirs till they are the same age.

ohh dear I'm starting to rant, better still shoot them all

ahhhh! 

Dan

[C8RKH]

I feel the big issue is that we voted to join the common market, a free trade union to allow the easier movement of goods and services across Europe and this has been morphed into a European Federal Superstate over the past 45 years.

It's actually quite shockibg that the people of Europe, including the UK, have sleep walked into it.

The Swiss, after 24 years on the edge have now said no thanks. We might be next and I actually don't think we'll be the last. Maybe we'll see a movement back to trade coordination and away from closer Political union, thus bring about the dismantling of the hugely costly European Parliament.

[basalte]

European Federal Superstate ? Really ? The last time I looked this country

Did not have the Euro,

Is not a Republic,

Does not have proportional representation in elections,

Does not have a centralised police force,

Drives on the left,

Keeps different summer/winter times,

Has completely different personal tax rates,

Finances local government completely differently,

Has the highest bus and train fares in Europe 

Has way more liberal employment hiring and protection rights than  most other places in Europe,

Allied itself with the USA not Europe in the last  major military operation,

Has nuclear weapons along with only one other European country,

A completely different criminal  justice/ legal system.

I am leaving out all those scare stories about straight bananas, "vegolate",bent croissants and having to eat horses (oh sorry it was Tesco`s made us do that not the EU). They are tabloid press nonsense.   

...the above disinguishing features are surely enough to be going on with to argue that there is obvioiusly European cooperation (or maybe not these days ) but a  "Federal Superstate" ? No. The European Parliament has very little power to affect the decisions that matter in Europe. 

I hate allying myself with our Public Relations Professional Prime Minister but I  am for staying In the EU not because it is perfect (far from it, it certainly needs reform) but there are matters of principal aimed at keeping the peace and social justice that Europe subscribes to which must be conisrered along with the quest for cold hard trading cash.         

[Bibs]

13 minutes ago, basalte said:

The European Parliament has very little power to affect the decisions that matter in Europe.

Lucky it only had a budget of £1.8bn for 2015 with almost two thirds of that on wages alone! 

http://www.europarl.org.uk/en/about-us/faqs.html

[Barrykearley]

And I for one reckon Sepp Blatter should be put back in charge of Fifa........

europe - don't make me laugh - it's an utter joke

[march]

From Bibs link:

Following the implementation of the single Statute, the monthly pre-tax salary for MEPs for 2015 is Euro 8,213.02.

or  £6346.94 per month

or £76,163.28 a year plus expenses

Please can I be a Euro MP - I would definitely vote to stay in then! until then I will vote out.

How many Kinnocks are MEP's?, also this is worth a look http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1192894/Revealed-How-Kinnocks-enjoyed-astonishing-10m-ride-EU-gravy-train.html