Brexit

[Andyww]

The EU being against state aid and nationalisation is the reason Corbyn has always been anti-EU.

On the subject of Boris, pretty much everyone I know, almost all Conservative voters, cant stand him. 

The prospect of Labour getting in terrifies me and is becoming real. This was brought home by a Corbyn supporter on the QT panel last night who repeated several totally fake allegations against the Tories such as they have "killed 100,000 people". She went completely unchallenged. There is a mindset which has become so entrenched amongst a section of the population, mostly the young, which will ensure they vote Labour. On the other hand there are huge numbers of ex-Tory voters who will not vote for Boris. 

[march]

3 minutes ago, Andyww said:

The EU being against state aid

So under what rules do SNCF (French state owned railways) operate, they even own majority shares in Govia who run one of the UK rail franchises and plow UK profits back into the French railways. The Germans are no better with Deutche Bahn. In what world can this be considered a fair even approach?

[C8RKH]

@march - you could add Airbus, Suez, Veolia, EdF, PSA, etc.

German industry gets subsidised energy as domestic consumers pay a levy to support them! 

[Andyww]

11 minutes ago, march said:

So under what rules do SNCF (French state owned railways) operate, they even own majority shares in Govia who run one of the UK rail franchises and plow UK profits back into the French railways. The Germans are no better with Deutche Bahn. In what world can this be considered a fair even approach?

There are two supposed rules. Firstly they are already state owned so the EU is apparently OK with that. Another is there is a list of vital industries which countries can add to, to be allowed to be exempt from the other rules and be protected from foreigh buyouts. The French simply added pretty much every big company to the list. The UK on the other hand only has Rolls Royce aero engines and a few others on the list. TBH the UK government are as much to blame as the EU.

[march]

12 minutes ago, Andyww said:

TBH the UK government are as much to blame as the EU.

Completely agree, our varying governments over the years have been expert at shooting ourselves in the foot.

[Andyww]

Max Hastings, who used to be Boris's boss at the Telegraph sums up the view I, and many others have about him, and the reason Corbyn will be handed the next election:

 

[pete]

20 minutes ago, Andyww said:

Max Hastings, who used to be Boris's boss at the Telegraph sums up the view I, and many others have about him, and the reason Corbyn will be handed the next election:

 

Seems an ideal CV to be a politician😆

[Barrykearley]

Looks like a perfect fit. That describes a fair few of the Eu political elite

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

10 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

The EU are going to be forcing the dismantling of the NHS should we remain a member

That's just not true, is it? The EU has no axe to grind with the NHS. In fact it's a major provider of jobs to EU citizens.

[Kimbers]

There is lots online about the way the EU see's the NHS as a Monopoly under its rules and under their new Transatlantic agreement with the USA the NHS has been singled out as a Monopoly that needs to change and allow private firms to be involved. There is also an article I just read saying the EU was setting up a board to oversee, amongst other things, the NHS and other state monopolies.

Lets face it, the Reason Corbyn historically hates the EU is that it's a non democratic "Jobs for the fat cats" organisation. Thats the only thing I agree with Corbyn on. Though he has been "got to" IMHO, by the remain sections of his party and appears to now be taking a Pro Europe Stance. I believe because the Tories will go down the leave route and they need to set themselves aside from that.

@Andyww I was a Tory voter. I am now a Brexit Party Voter and will do so until we leave or there is a fundamental change in Politics in the UK. However Boris being leader is one of the few things that could entice me back. I think you are wrong about the number of people who hate him and virtually all of the criticisms of him are lies and mistruths. Look at the recent crowdfunding attempt to discredit him. The fact he got nearly 3 times more votes than anyone else also points towards the fact that his own party like him more than loathe him and I think you will find the same from the Party members. 

They say the same about Maggie but at least she was tough, stood up for this country and stuck to her beliefs. If Boris does the same then he may get my vote somewhere down the line after Brexit.

[Barrykearley]

The uks veto will be gone soon. The Eu have proved time and time again what they say and what they do are two very different things

[Neal H]

 

You could cut-and-paste that to about 75% of MP's and all of those who reach high office.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

1 hour ago, Kimbers said:

There is lots online about the way the EU see's the NHS as a Monopoly under its rules and under their new Transatlantic agreement with the USA the NHS has been singled out as a Monopoly that needs to change and allow private firms to be involved.

But that potential Transatlantic agreement with the USA is for a post Brexit UK, so why would the EU give a toss?

By the way, many people would say that there are so many private firms involved in the NHS already, that it doesn't even feel like the NHS anymore, but rather a cash cow for incomptent/greedy private operators.

[Kimbers]

you can blame the British Public Sector Tender rules for that. Having been involved many a time I can assure you that many of the Public Sectors organisations are ripped off by private firms.

If they allowed local trusts to, for example, go down Tescos and buy Paracetamol, they would get it for 12p a box instead of the £1.22 they currently pay for the same product. But they aren't allowed to!

I know several Police Forces where the Tender for cars has been won by Vauxhall when they were substantially more expensive than many other brands. But the Tender Board (Council) believe seeing Police Driving around in BMW's is bad for public morale and perception...... Even though they were cheaper than the Vauxhall product and more fit for purpose.

It's been gong on for a long time. I won the local council tender to supply their pool and council cars in a previous life. Why? Because I could supply a Hybrid whereas many of my competitors couldn't. Guess how many choose the Hybrid? None. They all went with other models, which were substantially more expensive than my competitors. 

So you are right. private sector firms are ripping off Public sector but only because the rules allow them to and they hire people who know nothing about the products or market to set the rules and buy the products. Now if they had Doctors and Nurses sorting the buying for the NHS and Police for the Police etc not only would they get a much better deal but the products would be more fit for purpose.

[Andyww]

The above is true and on a far larger scale is the reason big infrastructure projects cost many times more in this country than others and take much longer.

[Barrykearley]

 

[C8RKH]

4 hours ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

By the way, many people would say that there are so many private firms involved in the NHS already, that it doesn't even feel like the NHS anymore, but rather a cash cow for incomptent/greedy private operators.

I assume you are also referring to the vast majority of GP Practices that are private companies who contract with the NHS for GP services and employ Practice Managers to maximise their revenue and therefore profits from the NHS?

[Chillidoggy]

Just don’t get me started about GP appointments.

[C8RKH]

So we've had almost two years of doom and gloom from Tata and JLR re how Brexit is killing their business, jobs are going to be lost, no inward investment and countless more bollocks and shite.

News today, Oh, JLR had decided it is investing big in the UK as the focus for EV car production!   Absolute tw!ts the lot of them - Brexit was, and still is by many, being used to cover up for years of "rip off britain" where UK firms were bought or run from abroad for the sole intention of taking profit out, or, were just run badly by their UK owners/managers with little future investment in R&D etc - along comes Brexit and it is the ideal smoke screen to take the hit, whilst the owners and managers still pocket bonuses etc.  It's just bloody unbelievable - why can't they just be honest about it?

[Andyww]

I saw this last night and before the interview the woman did a piece to camera. She seemed to have developed a completely irrational obsession about the EU in the manner of a religious fanatic. One of the things she said was the new EU leaders are even more heavily into greater integration which in her view was essential.

Brussels is I assume packed with people like this. Apparently that German defence minster was chosen not for competency but for "Thinking EU".

[C8RKH]

15 hours ago, Buddsy said:

OMG!

 

 

Did he really just say the woman at the head of the EU sent the German Army in the NATO exercise in the arctic with broomsticks as guns??!!! (1minute 20Secs)

 

buddsy

That is quite horrific stuff he was saying there. I'd be interested, as ever, (and truly) in the thoughts of EU supporters on having these people, un-elected by the masses, at the helm?

[pete]

https://www-express-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.express.co.uk/news/world/1152580/Brexit-news-France-business-Arnaud-de-Bresson-Emmanuel-Macron-UK-EU-withdrawal-latest/amp?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.express.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fworld%2F1152580%2FBrexit-news-France-business-Arnaud-de-Bresson-Emmanuel-Macron-UK-EU-withdrawal-latest

[pete]

This is exactly the reasons I voted out 

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1151576/Brexit-news-UK-EU-Ursula-von-der-Leyen-European-Parliament-Commission-latest

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

Do you work for the Daily Express?

[C8RKH]

28 minutes ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

Do you work for the Daily Express?

Why does it matter who he works for?