Brexit

[100th_Idiot]

While the hostility remains on both sides we will never come together. Those that feel they won should be a little more tolerant and magnanimous. Those that feel they lost need to be a little more accepting.

[CHANGES]

1 hour ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

The decision to refer to YouTube for the speech may have more to do with Boris & Dominic than the BBC. With a break from tradition Downing Street decided to film it themselves for some reason, rather than invite one of the usual broadcasters to come in and then distribute the footage to the others.

I agree , and the break from tradition was a decision of number 10.  What i was referring to is, the national broadcaster of news for this nation decided not to feature the PM's speech in their main news slot..   It is irrelevant who recorded his speech they should have featured it.. It is a major national event and coverage should have had his speech included ...    They feature other news stories recorded by other sources , to miss this one out is just sour grapes ....  shows the bias is still there regardless..   

[CHANGES]

4 minutes ago, 100th_Idiot said:

While the hostility remains on both sides we will never come together. Those that feel they won should be a little more tolerant and magnanimous. Those that feel they lost need to be a little more accepting.

This is so true ,  but is it not very apparent the losing side are making the biggest noise with none acceptance of democracy .   They even said celebrating the event last night was wrong ...  Is it wrong to celebrate democracy  , If so lets just rejoin the EU and become a puppet state  without a flag !!!!!...    The Brexit camp i feel have been quite candid in their approach to this in comparison the the  re-moan side.      But it all must end and start a new ...  time to move forward..   

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

53 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

Accepting democracy is the key.

when we have an election - we never cry for a rerun - it’s just accepted

You’re absolutely right of course. My side lost and I think 90% of us remoaners accept that, but there are still plenty of issues to be decided before the end of this year, so I don’t think anyone can say that the debate ends today. The funny thing for me is that all my family, friends and the vast majority of other people I know voted Remain. It’s only here where I get to interact with the Leave camp!

One point to remember about losing a General Election, there’s always another one coming along maximum 5 years later, so you always get another bite of the cherry. Not so with a referendum.

Anyway peace to all and let’s hope it all works out fine after all. I will then be happy  to hold my hands up and admit I was wrong all along. More importantly I have just been out for a spirited drive in my Evora GTE.

[C8RKH]

1 hour ago, 100th_Idiot said:

While the hostility remains on both sides we will never come together. Those that feel they won should be a little more tolerant and magnanimous. Those that feel they lost need to be a little more accepting.

Yeah right. After all the name calling and bullshit we've had to put up with coming from some amazingly arrogant, intolerent, and down right nasty remainers?  Brilliant. Just think where the majority of the hostility has come from and where it is still coming from now? Protests continue. Even childish stunts like defacing 50p coins etc. The hostility will remain until those that lost finally accept the decision and just move on.

 

38 minutes ago, LotusLeftLotusRight said:

One point to remember about losing a General Election, there’s always another one coming along maximum 5 years later, so you always get another bite of the cherry. Not so with a referendum.

 

What utter nonsense.  We can have a referendum any time we want. Just look at what is happening in Scotland. Indyref supporters did not win so they moan like fook ever since and eventually we'll get another referendum. Guess what. When they lose that one, we'll get another one whilst our schools, police, fire service, NHS etc all decline through lack of attention.

 

My point is. Stop griping, bitching and moaning about the fact you lost. What we now need to do is to focus on how we make a success of it. Exactly the opposite of what is happening in Scotland right now so let's learn from that fook up? Or, let's all just continue to bitch, moan and whinge about something that is done. That's all I'm saying.

[100th_Idiot]

1 hour ago, CHANGES said:

This is so true ,  but is it not very apparent the losing side are making the biggest noise with none acceptance of democracy .   They even said celebrating the event last night was wrong ...  Is it wrong to celebrate democracy  , If so lets just rejoin the EU and become a puppet state  without a flag !!!!!...    The Brexit camp i feel have been quite candid in their approach to this in comparison the the  re-moan side.      But it all must end and start a new ...  time to move forward..   

So just let them shout and stamp their feet. Does it really bother you that much what a small minority say (I don't mean all those intelligent well intentioned people that voted remain). There is a small group that will hold banners and never accept. Ignore them. Get on with life. Welcome the remain voters that accept the decision including those that will have a different view to yours on what the end deal should look like. Have a civilised debate on the future. Move on.

 

[Barrykearley]

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F223887093614

See - positive wealth creation already 👍

[pete]

4 hours ago, Chillidoggy said:

The situation here:-

1. The sun’s shining in Margate.
2. The birds are singing.
3. One of my jalapeños has sprouted.
4. I have a teensy-weensy hangover from last nights Brexit party.

no mention of a lotus

is one of the above a euphenism

Edited February 1, 2020 by pete

[oilmagnet477]

2 hours ago, Barrykearley said:

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F223887093614

See - positive wealth creation already 👍

£6.99 for a 50p piece!

Who makes them? Porsche perhaps....

[gregs24]

As I posted before, some will benefit from brexit some will lose out. Many will do both at the same time. There are no winners or losers as we are all in this together. 

We are where we are as a result of a democratic event. It would have been nicer if the result had been more clear cut rather than pretty much 50:50 which is why we have had so much antagonistic bullshit posted here and many other places. Half those who voted are upset and half are happy pretty much.

Referring to people as 'remoaners' is deeply insensitive and a pointless cheap shot, one that Boris should be ashamed of for using himself. What are users of the term trying to achieve other than being antagonistic - very childish. I don't doubt equally derogative comments have been made about Brexiteers, but surely this forum can rise above the populist tabloid mentality shown elsewhere.

As has been posted above this is a once in a lifetime event, unlike a General Election, with no opportunity to return to the EU any time soon even if we chose to. We are where we are, as I said above, so let us move on together and stop playing silly games.

 

 

[Barrykearley]

15 minutes ago, gregs24 said:

We are where we are as a result of a democratic event. It would have been nicer if the result had been more clear cut rather than pretty much 50:50 which is why we have had so much antagonistic bullshit posted here and many other places. Half those who voted are upset and half are happy pretty much

By the simple terms of democracy - it was clear cut. A win for leave.

its like a football result really - the score at the end is what it is

[CHANGES]

19 minutes ago, gregs24 said:

We are where we are as a result of a democratic event. It would have been nicer if the result had been more clear cut rather than pretty much 50:50 which is why we have had so much antagonistic bullshit posted here and many other places. Half those who voted are upset and half are happy pretty much.

52% against 48% is not 50/50  .....   their is a clear victory of 4%

8 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

its like a football result really - the score at the end is what it is

In Barry's world of football results ,  the brexit leave team scored 1,268,831  goals more ....  i think that is quite definitive in anybody book...      In F1 you can win by fractions of a second , but its still a win..   People may not like losing , but need to suck it up and get on with life ...   That's how you become a winner .... not a winger....   

[C8RKH]

48 minutes ago, gregs24 said:

Referring to people as 'remoaners' is deeply insensitive and a pointless cheap shot

Really, well how about Remainers referring to Leavers as:

Racists

Stupid

Bigots

Thick

Nazi's

etc.

In the face of all of that shit you think "remoaner" is deeply insensitive. Wow. Really?  I do think that people really do need to think back about the bile that has been thrown at leavers by those who wanted to remain.

[gregs24]

35 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

By the simple terms of democracy - it was clear cut. A win for leave.

its like a football result really - the score at the end is what it is

 

9 minutes ago, CHANGES said:

52% against 48% is not 50/50  .....   their is a clear victory of 4%

In Barry's world of football results ,  the brexit leave team scored 1,268,831  goals more ....  i think that is quite definitive in anybody book...      In F1 you can win by fractions of a second , but its still a win..   People may not like losing , but need to suck it up and get on with life ...   That's how you become a winner .... not a winger....   

I understand the maths but a 2% swing is all that is required and that means a lot of people will be unhappy. In a general election if there was only a 2% swing required it would be a marginal seat.

Unfortunately the perception of 'winning' and 'losing' in the referendum will mean little to the realities of the impacts the changes will have on people. If you voted leave and 'won' the reality is that the impact on your life will be partly positive and partly negative in a proportion that is impossible to determine at present. 

[gregs24]

1 minute ago, C8RKH said:

Really, well how about Remainers referring to Leavers as:

Racists

Stupid

Bigots

Thick

Nazi's

etc.

In the face of all of that shit you think "remoaner" is deeply insensitive. Wow. Really?  I do think that people really do need to think back about the bile that has been thrown at leavers by those who wanted to remain.

If you had read my post, I specifically said that there were similarly unhelpful terms used to describe brexiteers. Competing as to who used the worst terms is ludicrous. 

[Barrykearley]

1 hour ago, C8RKH said:

Really, well how about Remainers referring to Leavers as:

Racists

Stupid

Bigots

Thick

Nazi's

etc.

In the face of all of that shit you think "remoaner" is deeply insensitive. Wow. Really?  I do think that people really do need to think back about the bile that has been thrown at leavers by those who wanted to remain.

Oh stop - you’ll make some of us blush ☺️

[CHANGES]

3 hours ago, gregs24 said:

 

Unfortunately the perception of 'winning' and 'losing' in the referendum will mean little to the realities of the impacts the changes will have on people. If you voted leave and 'won' the reality is that the impact on your life will be partly positive and partly negative in a proportion that is impossible to determine at present. 

Once again you are correct...... But ...  The brexit people will be going forward with optimism and positive focus,  when they hit a bump in the road they will say ,  that is something to deal with then move on...   The re-moaners   (that is those who still don't except the result)  will be going forward with negativity , blaming everything on brexit regardless...   They can not change the result but they can ruin their lives by letting it eat them up with despondency ..   You are what you focus on ..  

[C8RKH]

3 hours ago, gregs24 said:

If you had read my post, I specifically said that there were similarly unhelpful terms used to describe brexiteers. Competing as to who used the worst terms is ludicrous. 

I had read your post and I actually agreed with a lot of it. The bit I took exception too was your point about the particular term you referenced being deeply insensitive given the terms used against leavers. I struggled to see that point and still do.

The main issue for me is that certain people in the Remain camp are just refusing to accept the result and they continue to moan about it. Incessantly. 

@CHANGES is spot on. It is time for us ALL to respect the decision and move on together in a positive manner to make the best of it. If we do, then we have a good chance of succeeding. The reason we are where we are now is that people have bitterly fought against the result for 3 years. We have had a myriad of underhand tactics to try to reverse it. We have had three years of our negotiating position being undermined and during that time of discourse internally the EU has responded by mocking us, bullying us and trying to subvert our democratic right.

They succeeded in overturning key referendums in Ireland and the Netherlands but somehow, we battled through and we achieved our goal. With absolutely no thanks to Remain.

So please do forgive me when I say enough is enough. Stop undermining the country's position. Stop talking us down. And get behind making a success of it 

But if you really do feel that the term Remoaner in the face of all of this is deeply insensitive then thank your lucky stars you weren't on the Leave side. Your sensitivities would have been shredded.

[Jacques]

Come on good people of England. You have won (voted) your freedom. It's more valuable than money or fame, because it contains integrity and cannot by it's nature be subdued for eternity.

Or look at it this way: Now the leavers have won, Well, in fact I think everyone in the UK have won. But on the other hand, one might say that during all these many years of being a member of the ec, there have been millions of British people surpressed. And they sucked it up (or what ever the term is), and now it's just the opposite.

Nah, I think you all won - the war is over, enjoy the peace untill the next stormy weather.

Just take a short walk down memory lane and remember when the eastern wall fell (and the Berlin wall). Yes, money was not fed to the right people, so that many in east Germany did not get a chance to recouperate the advancements that the west side had gone through. Some even today claim that they would prefer to go back again in the eastern communist regime that once was. Because they don't have to think, they don't have to struggle on some levels, and they don't have to decide what they want to do with the responsability that freedom gives instead of a nanny state. But think of all the free souls who fought to escape suppression and died trying. Better to try than kill the soul. My wife was born behind that eastern wall, and I can tell you for sure, that it was not a midsummernights dream. It was hell on Earth. Constant lacking food, constant being surpressed in speaking or writing, constant surveilance. And millions ended up dead or near dead in prisons and concentration camps.

As the Romans said: you can control people by deprive them everything or give them everything. In either case, they will stop thinking. Do you think that the ec freely wants to give the same chance you had, to other member countries? In the national radio, even yesterday, they told on the news, that the ec wants to tighten the web over the people even more. Even tighter.

Or do you remember that boy who stood alone in front of a chinese tank on the square of the Heavenly Peace? He wanted one thing: freedom. No more tyrany. No more suppression. No more control.

I think the ec is a failure and a catastrophe by definition, because it offers money and success to those who are rich enough to always stay on top of things. Where as it offers small crumbs to the vast majority on the scaffort where it sacrified freedom. Crumbs such as save ½ hour when going abroad, make the cucumbers straight, let's survail every single individual, let's lower the salary but keep prices up etc. etc. etc.

Do you think Bonaparte offered real freedom and prosperity to the masses after 1789? No, he wanted connonfodder to become a dictator. Another regime in history.

I am not entirely convinced that everyone in the UK realise just how lucky you are. Maybe, just maybe, it's like having grown up inside a house that had it all, everything you need, save that one thing. And then one day the door to the entire world opens up, and you step out, out of the house that you have been thinking of as being the whole world, when in fact it was never that. Freedom can be quite overwhelming.

Never mind pettyfull little things like a passport, the currency and ½ hour more traveling time when going abroad. I am sure we can come to terms of a trading agreement etc. after a while.

Now step out of that jail you've been thinking of as your home for the last 46 years, and enjoy. Some may for a while say "no, I don't want that; it's blinding; it's not safe. Of course it's not safe. Anything disasterous can happen, and sometimes it does. But the same disasters may happen inside the cage. We're just trained not to see it. They are excused. It's only natural. 

In fact, I believe you'll like it!

Today, ladies and gentlemen, you should all be proud and spell your names with capital letters only!

Kind regards,

Jacques

[rocket63]

6 hours ago, oilmagnet477 said:

£6.99 for a 50p piece!

Who makes them? Porsche perhaps....

More like the Labour mint  

[100th_Idiot]

12 hours ago, C8RKH said:

I had read your post and I actually agreed with a lot of it. The bit I took exception too was your point about the particular term you referenced being deeply insensitive given the terms used against leavers. I struggled to see that point and still do.

The main issue for me is that certain people in the Remain camp are just refusing to accept the result and they continue to moan about it. Incessantly. 

@CHANGES is spot on. It is time for us ALL to respect the decision and move on together in a positive manner to make the best of it. If we do, then we have a good chance of succeeding. The reason we are where we are now is that people have bitterly fought against the result for 3 years. We have had a myriad of underhand tactics to try to reverse it. We have had three years of our negotiating position being undermined and during that time of discourse internally the EU has responded by mocking us, bullying us and trying to subvert our democratic right.

They succeeded in overturning key referendums in Ireland and the Netherlands but somehow, we battled through and we achieved our goal. With absolutely no thanks to Remain.

So please do forgive me when I say enough is enough. Stop undermining the country's position. Stop talking us down. And get behind making a success of it 

But if you really do feel that the term Remoaner in the face of all of this is deeply insensitive then thank your lucky stars you weren't on the Leave side. Your sensitivities would have been shredded.

It would be nice to move on but I don't think that is reality. There will be a small group forever vocal. We did after all have many many years of complaining about being in the EU until we got the referendum. That's just the way it is here.

[Barrykearley]

21 minutes ago, 100th_Idiot said:

We did after all have many many years of complaining about being in the EU until we got the referendum. That's just the way it is here.

There’s been a creep right from day 1 towards a full United States of Europe. There was a treaty signed at the end of WW2 which agreed the border of Europe would extend no further east. It seems ever since the EEA this has been utterly ignored and the Russians, whom without their assistance in WW2 Hitler would probably have been victorious, set up as the panto villains.

We the British people have never had a say over the continued signing away of our sovereignty and rights to self rule. This has been done by political parties of all colours upto now.

We are probably sat in the most interesting  part of history since the late 1920s right now. The rise of the nazis, the Cold War and the lessons which clearly should have been learned from these dire moments in history appear to be forgotten.

[C8RKH]

I do believe @Barrykearley that the unchecked march of the EU across Europe will in the future be a major talking point in history.  

What started out as a collaboration over trade has morphed into a Federalist Movement that is consuming 27 countries. It is eroding national identities and it is enforcing rules that people have not voted for.

I wonder. If this was the premise of a Lucas film whom would the audiences be rooting for? The Empire of the EU or the small band of resistance fighters? Granted our leader, BoJo is more Jaja Binks than Han Solo but hey, that side won eventually.

I'd be happy to shut the fook up and just get on with the job in hand. Unfortunately, I fear the incessant whining is some way away from dying down.

In the mean time I'm focusing on doing my job well. Helping my employer to succeed. And enjoying life in the UK whilst it still remains united, even if that is a tenuous united.

[gregs24]

2 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

Unfortunately, I fear the incessant whining is some way away from dying down.

 

Well the incessant whining to leave for the last 47 years never stopped from some quarters, so I wouldn't hold your breath !

[100th_Idiot]

43 minutes ago, Barrykearley said:

There’s been a creep right from day 1 towards a full United States of Europe. There was a treaty signed at the end of WW2 which agreed the border of Europe would extend no further east. It seems ever since the EEA this has been utterly ignored and the Russians, whom without their assistance in WW2 Hitler would probably have been victorious, set up as the panto villains.

We the British people have never had a say over the continued signing away of our sovereignty and rights to self rule. This has been done by political parties of all colours upto now.

We are probably sat in the most interesting  part of history since the late 1920s right now. The rise of the nazis, the Cold War and the lessons which clearly should have been learned from these dire moments in history appear to be forgotten.

Slightly orthogonal to the point I was making about being divided and having a core of remain supporters that will always be complaining just as we had a core of anti EU supporters that didn't stop complaining. There will be those that support further integration and will sincerely believe in that goal. We have to accept they will never stop.