Brexit

[Barrykearley]

The massive thing that table seems to be missing is the ordinary little folk, the working people, the families, the people struggling to make ends meet, the tax payers, the strivers, that hardworking entrepreneurs- all of whom are being utterly screwed by nearly all of those rich corrupt and privileged folks in the column on the left. This is how utterly disconnected our rulers are - more so than in the days of Robin Hood frankly. 

I am hoping and praying for massive change - enabling a clear and bright future for the next generations. Freedom from huge corruption, freedom from distant rule. I honestly thought we were lucky enough to benefit from true democracy. I really do hope we get it Friday morning. Otherwise we will be back to corrupt and communist style rule

[Andyww]

This list appeared on my FB page as well. The list on the right is of course heavily biased towards people who they think wont be popular. None of the many Labour MPs nor union leaders who support Brexit appear of course. This is exactly the kind of nonsense which this whole campaign has been full of. The remain side seem to be unable to put forward any rational reasoning (other than clean beaches and low roaming charges of course, never forget those).

[Mark Blanchard]

 

Just my 2p.

 

[Chillidoggy]

I'm voting to stay in the EU because Cameron is now saying -

 

Cambelt change prices will be rationalised across Europe.

All maintenance will become easier than before.

Rusty bolts will rectify themselves, and turn into stainless steel.

Fuel consumption will halve.

A online register of abandoned Esprits will be compiled for Barry.

Bibs will become teetotal.

The value of green cars will double.

Unicorns will be reintroduced into the UK

 

 

 

[CHANGES]

Like a lot of you out there reading this thread I am deeply concerned about the situation but refrained from comment till now.....

WHY NOW... Because it is becoming increasingly apparent the deck is being stacked.   This is not democratic and typical of the tactics used by EU  DICTATORS  with an indication of what will follow....  Most of the media have been infiltrated by the stay campaign.  Insignificant news presentations are bent towards the stay vote with subliminal messages being used.  These are very subtle but have a major effect on the undecided or uniformed ( probably the same people ) .This is a manipulation of our free voting system and has the real stink of a conspiracy...

  The News channels particularly the BBC are supposed to be unbiased, give a fair balanced view from both sides of any debate.. Well you don't have to be smart to see that is not happening. 

My major concerns over and above the eventual outcome , is that a vote to stay in will have been manipulated .  If it was a level playing field I would be able to except the result as the will of the people regardless of my personal preferences..  However this is looking like it is not going to be the case, underhand and covert operations are being used to sway towards the stay vote..  For those who are unsure this is taking place, just look at the emphasis given by presenters along with their enthusiasm and body language when talking about staying, then compare it to the dropped head slouching body language towards leaving.   This is a typical and well used method in profiling a persons thoughts..  I could go on but you get the picture...  The only positive out of this will be a vote to leave the EU, this will not only send a message to the EU but to our politicians that the people of the UK must be listened too ..  The time has come and the people should be allowed to vote freely.. That is what our parents and grand parents fought for.... 

After WWII   Stalin forecasted  that a third world war would not be required for Europe to unite, it will happen by stealth...   Well this is what has been happening over many years,  This UK vote could and should scupper the whole thing... If this vote had been delayed a further  10 years then a whole new generation will have been profiled to tow the EU line and the outcome guaranteed..   The reason all the tactics are being used is the vote came to early and a large population in the UK can still think for itself . This is panicking the powers that be , so they are pulling out all the stops... The leave campaign has minute budget in comparison so has to use logic and common sense.  Not many people listen to that these days...  

Just so I have not subliminally profiled the readers of this post to think stay by using it significantly more in my text that leave I will finish with...  Leave the eu.  leave the eu, leave the eu , leave the eu..

VOTE LEAVE .........

OUT OUT OUT...          

[Andyww]

The list of remainers is all-powerful and make no mistake, they will be doing everything underhand they possibly can, in order to swing the vote towards remain.

[CHANGES]

As I said subliminal profiling.... How many of the public have said well if she has changed to staying then there must be something to it.. The real truth is she was probably never in the leave camp , but made out she was as it makes headline press to say she changed her mind..  Just another covert move by the dictatorial movement to leave.  Plus the promise of a financial wind fall with the EU post she will receive when UK politics gets dissolved . 

She probably won't be the last the remain campaign will use this way , there are probably several planted waiting for a strategic time to announce a change of allegiance.  Its all about tactics to influence the vote , nothing about policy .. she did say she was upset with the line of immigrates poster used by the get out campaign..   So from this we must assume she changed her vote because of a presented poster that offended her , nothing to do with the EU debate... That's great coming from a politician, it shows lack of character and substance without explanation ..   Now if she had said that balanced  discussions have brought forward points that she was not previously aware of and this made her change her mind.. followed by listing them,  This would have made good believable editorial worthy of a watch along with counter discussion on the points made ..  But as is the case with these sort of tactics they are always quick sharp and shallow, and rarely challenged ... which is why they are so effective and used ... Watch out for the next one...  

[march]

Does anyone know of a country where there are good roads and a good honest-ish state mechanism is in place (oh and no nasty poisonous snakes ore bugs) as I am so disillusioned with this country I would happily emigrate now - if I could only convince SWMBO. Both sides are lying through their teeth pedalling hate and misinformation and as stated above the media is far from being objective, many parts of the state mechanism are no longer fit for purpose due to cuts or the usual civil service incompetence. The middle classes are getting hit all the time while the work shy and lazy keep being supported and the rich get richer. And justice is just a word to be abused.

I really hope some of the politicians are damaged beyond electability when this is over (whoever wins)

Sorry rant over but this is no longer a country to be proud of.

Strangely enough France appeals to me (I like the way the people stand up for their rights - and the Farm subsidies )

[franjipane]

12 hours ago, Andyww said:

The remain side seem to be unable to put forward any rational reasoning (other than clean beaches and low roaming charges of course, never forget those).

Both campaigning sides are a farce, however here's a video from someone who knows a thing or 2 about the issues and is cutting through the nonsense.  If your reasons for leaving are important for you then fair enough, but it's at least worth a watch and dispels a lot of the myths around the EU.  Bit of a shame that both sides can't campaign more like this guy  -

 

 

[C8RKH]

They might stand up for their rights but they pee all over everyone elses and cause endless problems with their annual strikes and demonstrations. I always know when its Easter as that is when the air traffic controllers have their first holiday, sorry I mean strike, of the year.

France is a wonderful country and her people are by and large great too, but it is ruled by an elite of around 5000 inter related people and until the next revolution, well, nothing there will improve. DeGaul taught us British that the French political elite held us in complete contempt and I for one would not raise a finger to help them until that elite was changed, which will only happen with the dismantling of the EU experiment and a move back to the founding principles of the common market.

And don't even get me started on bloody  EU farming subsidies. It's totally outrageous and another system that is riddled with fraud, graft and inefficiencies.

Try Canada instead or Sweden / Denmark.

Edited June 20, 2016 by C8RKH

[Chillidoggy]

48 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

They might stand up for their rights but they pee all over everyone elses and cause endless problems with their annual strikes and demonstrations. I always know when its Easter as that is when the air traffic controllers have their first holiday, sorry I mean strike, of the year.

France is a wonderful country and her people are by and large great too, but it is ruled by an elite of around 5000 inter related people and until the next revolution, well, nothing there will improve. DeGaul taught us British that the French political elite held us in complete contempt and I for one would not raise a finger to help them until that elite was changed, which will only happen with the dismantling of the EU experiment and a move back to the founding principles of the common market.

And don't even get me started on bloody  EU farming subsidies. It's totally outrageous and another system that is riddled with fraud, graft and inefficiencies.

Try Canada instead or Sweden / Denmark.

 

I'd raise two fingers to help the French.

[march]

Don't fancy Canada although I understand Vancouver is stunning. I think Denmark and Sweden are a bit far north for my tastes.

I understand and know about the issues with the French political elite but for some reason I feel moving to a country where I know about the issues and can accept them as an incomer is acceptable. I know this seems odd and I am not sure I can rationally explain it (perhaps as an incomer I feel I should not have the right to fully criticise the way the country is run - I just have to respect and accept it).

I know a little about the farming subsidies, strangely enough, and to be honest they are needed but I do agree it is a system riddled with problems and incredible inefficiencies. The problem is without them the UK produced food would almost completely disappear overnight, the British countryside as we know it would disappear, food costs for the consumer would go up and we would be almost fully dependant on foreign imports. Unfortunately the masses in the UK are not prepared to pay what it costs to produce food in a morally responsible manner - but that's a discussion for another day .

Having discussed this with SWMBO in the past it has pretty much come down to France or New Zealand. If only New Zealand was a little closer!

Oh and is our political elite so good - just look at them at work over the past weeks

[C8RKH]

3 minutes ago, ian29gte said:

 

I'd raise two fingers to help the French.

They'd only cut them off. They have a habit of that, think they like British fingers covered in breadcrumbs and dipped in garlic mayo - what else! 

 

[Chillidoggy]

Just now, C8RKH said:

They'd only cut them off. They have a habit of that, think they like British fingers covered in breadcrumbs or something

 

They'd have a job doing it from Calais with me on the White Cliffs.

[C8RKH]

2 minutes ago, march said:

I know a little about the farming subsidies, strangely enough, and to be honest they are needed but I do agree it is a system riddled with problems and incredible inefficiencies. The problem is without them the UK produced food would almost completely disappear overnight, the British countryside as we know it would disappear, food costs for the consumer would go up and we would be almost fully dependant on foreign imports. Unfortunately the masses in the UK are not prepared to pay what it costs to produce food in a morally responsible manner - but that's a discussion for another day .

Having had discussions on the matter in the past it has pretty much come down to France or New Zealand. If only New Zealand was a little closer!

 

I can live with the idea, even the need, for farming subsidies. It's the fact that across the EU the system is so damn expensive BECAUSE of the ineficiences, the graft, the theft, the miss-management etc. Sort all of that out and stop it, and then we have a system that is fairer, cheaper and more efficient. It's the same common story with everything the EU does - massively bloated, mostly susceptible to fraud and graft - anyone see those empty fully equipped airports and towns in Spain, built with EU money? Wonder who really benefited from that lot?

[march]

Can't agree more!

[Alfa2Evora]

14 hours ago, Andyww said:

.........other than clean beaches..........................).

They haven't even got that sorted here yet : http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13411952.Scotland_s_beaches_marked_down_for_water_quality_in_damning_report/

But then, what would I know about how best our money should be spent? According to an 'eminent economics professor', anyone backing the 'OUT' campaign is "financially illiterate".

Oh, and @march , I've already started planning my sinking ship rat routine. I've got a quote for a shipping container to take the Evora to NZ - I'm sure an Esprit could be squeezed in too so we could go 'halfers' if you like,  .

[C8RKH]

Who goes on top? 

[Chillidoggy]

Daily Mail is now backing 'Remain', after God know how many years moaning about the EU and all it stands for.

And yet in the same breath they post this: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3649655/How-Brussels-spends-money-grows-trees-devastating-dispatch-reveal-Eurocrats-live-life-staggering-excess-10-000-earn-PM-s-150-000-taking-decisions-affect-lives-secret.html

 

 

[Andyww]

I think the Mail on Sunday backed remain but the Daily Mail backs Brexit. Which is strange as they are the same.

[C8RKH]

Nope, not the same as I believe they have different editors (and therefore different editorial policies) and I believe slightly different readers, in the way the majority of Sunday Times readers do not read The Times during the week.

[Bibs]

For @march, I even think I spotted @Barrykearley at 4.25...

[Barrykearley]

I didn't make it this year !!

[Andyww]

Looks like if the polls are to be believed over the past week, the entire future of the country has been decided by the action of a mentally ill guy. Unbelievable.

[C8RKH]

This is what happens when you give dumb people the right to vote.

When I become the PM the first I am going to do is to change the law so only me and Barry get to vote. It's a form of proportional representation and will ensure that no more dumb people will mess it up.

Simples.