James Bond S1

[Lotusfab]

Apparently theres a bit of a dicussion as to whether or not the real full size wet sub S1 was used in the movie. Some say it was just models. Well I believe the underwater shots are mostly the real sub and for some shots its a model. Whats the proof? Simple really.

Top LHS of the windscreen you can see some slats are missing and theres a mirror so the diver inside can see outside. The models dont have this.

Screenshot from the movie. The real sub with viewing area top left. Note the diving planes front full up real full down to try and counter the downforce because of the shape. Look carefully at the whole underwater scene. Two sets of bubbles from the rear top of the roof left and right. The bubbles appear when the divers inside breath they arn't continous until you see the rear of the model heading towards Strombergs underwater installation. 

Heres the model the diving planes are fixed horizontally and the car still manouevres!

Next time you watch the scene just watch the diving planes. When the sub is used the pilot struggles to control the sub as the nose downforce from the shape is hard to counter. At the end of the scene, when the car gets bullet holes, it bounces off the sea bed. Watch the diving planes move as the pilot tries to control it. I reckon this was a cock up and they kept it in. So in summary the real full size sub was used for most of the underwater scenes, not models.

[Bibs]

The car was very front heavy. I'm sure we all know what they did to counter this? No prizes for guessing... 

[Dan E]

Did they all stay in for 3 months? 

[Andyww]

The model only appears when Stromberg lair model is also in shot, for correct scale. 

[Lotusfab]

For the doubters!

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/lf13/london/lots/r153-007-lotus-esprit-submarine-car/294154

[JNW3]

This BTS pic of the sub looks real to me too   

[Lotusfab]

The final evidence is my S1. It is in fact  a wet sub. It can perform exactly as the above picture. We had a deveopement problem which we couldn't overcone. It can only go under water once! 😫😫😫😫

[williamtherebel]

Here are three photos of the submarine car taken at Lotus East Inc, New York. They were taken around late 1976 early 1977. I do not own the copyright to these photos. Any probs I will take them down. 

[Andyww]

The detractors are claiming that although the wet sub existed and was shipped on site it was not used in any movie shots. There is plenty of evidence that it was.

 

[Lotusfab]

Great pics! Its amazing how many pucs appear that no one has seen before!

[Andyww]

15 hours ago, Dan E said:

Did they all stay in for 3 months? 

Can think of worse than staying in with Barbara Bach for 3 weeks!

[Lotusfab]

7 minutes ago, Andyww said:

The detractors are claiming that although the wet sub existed and was shipped on site it was not used in any movie shots. There is plenty of evidence that it was.

 

Its a similar argument to building Saturn V rockets and not going to the moon! So far I havn't seen any evidence it was a model. If it was a fully working model with moveable diving plains where is it? Why would you have bubbles coming out. It would also work very well as you would be able to balance it correctly. This would mean the diving plains would not be at full deflection the whole time! Its obvious to me its a real sub in the movie.

[Andyww]

There are pictures in existence of the model and it was definitely used, with fixed, level dive plains, in the shots with the Stromberg lair in view. It would have to have been a model to get the scale right.

But, because there is proof of the model existing I am not sure why people are assuming it was used for all the shots. In fact how could the model have been used when there are divers chasing it for a start. Its easy to see the difference between the model and full size.

This is where it is claimed the shots were all model, I am sure they are wrong:

https://www.007.com/the-spy-who-loved-me-2/

 

[Lotusfab]

41 minutes ago, Andyww said:

There are pictures in existence of the model and it was definitely used, with fixed, level dive plains, in the shots with the Stromberg lair in view. It would have to have been a model to get the scale right.

But, because there is proof of the model existing I am not sure why people are assuming it was used for all the shots. In fact how could the model have been used when there are divers chasing it for a start. Its easy to see the difference between the model and full size.

This is where it is claimed the shots were all model, I am sure they are wrong:

https://www.007.com/the-spy-who-loved-me-2/

 

I agree the Stromberg shot was the fixed diving plane model. But the rest was almost all the sub. That website needs correcting. Mybe we could find the guy who actually piloted it for the scenes?

[LOTUSMAN33]

Its really good to see new images pop up and been a few recently, I had the pleasure of watching PPW sell to Pete Neilson, the S1 had a £60k estimate and the N/A engined Turbo from FYEO had a £30k one. If only we could go back in time.

It was nice to see one of the Wet Nellie subs restored at Bond 50, didn’t Elon Musk buy one as well?

Dave  

[Advantage]

 

And a photo of the press release of the time:

 

[James.007]

The little That I do know about the submarine, is that in the film when the car first goes into the water the first underwater shot is a model and the bubbles were produced using Alka-Seltzer tablets.

[Andyww]

That is correct as it still has wheels at that point and the bubbles are a cloud of fizzing. After it transforms, its the full size.

The interior pics from Advantage are great! You can see the mechanism for controlling the dive planes and the 4 motors for the props. There is a manifold with some thin tubing which seems to go up to the top, this lines up with where the bubbles enamate from in the movie shots.

[James.007]

5 minutes ago, Andyww said:

That is correct as it still has wheels at that point and the bubbles are a cloud of fizzing. After it transforms, its the full size.

The interior pics from Advantage are great! You can see the mechanism for controlling the dive planes and the 4 motors for the props. There is a manifold with some thin tubing which seems to go up to the top, this lines up with where the bubbles enamate from in the movie shots.

The link is very interesting to watch, it has interviews of who worked on the film and all about the submarine.

 

[Lotusfab]

2 hours ago, James.007 said:

The little That I do know about the submarine, is that in the film when the car first goes into the water the first underwater shot is a model and the bubbles were produced using Alka-Seltzer tablets.

 

2 hours ago, James.007 said:

The little That I do know about the submarine, is that in the film when the car first goes into the water the first underwater shot is a model and the bubbles were produced using Alka-Seltzer tablets.

Yep thats true as it entres the water its a model, you can tell because the top left of the screen has no mirror. As soon as it bottoms its the real sub, when theybare waiting to fire the missiles.

Model, yop left screen no mirror

Real sub, mirror top left

 

Ohh and the model has very dodgy slotmags!

And the lights are all wrong!

[Lotusfab]

It also looks like the door wasn't that well defined on the model. In the clip watch the bubbles. In some bits you can see them expelled as the divers inside breathe when it switches to the full size sub. QED.

 

[Paul Coleman]

I read that original post and from my understanding nobody was claiming it was all done with models. The original poster was rightly stating that some of the shots were of a model but then somebody else misread what he wrote and interpreted it as though he was saying it was all done with models and the full size sub wasn't used. It actually became ridiculous and at one point I thought somebody was just trying to wind up the original poster because no matter how many times he reiterated that he was saying it was a combination of models and full sized cars the other poster just kept replying saying he was claiming it was all done with models. I got bored in the end and stopped following it.

[Fridge]

Yes, I was confused by it also. As I couldn't believe someone would think it was all the same prop or whatever. But I appreciate that folk naturally don't know how films are made. The debate over on the Facey B group about the Esprit S1 underwater scenes seemed to get a few things confused.  To the credit of the skills of the film-makers and designers involved I suppose.

Either way, The Spy Who Loved Me wasn't a documentary factual programme.

Normally, in such scenes there is a mix of full-sized props (some fully functional), and miniatures (models), with CGI being used extensively these days for both. Such as in car advertisements, where an actual car may not even be driven on the road depicted. Directors like James Cameron (previously a miniature maker) and Christopher Nolan prefer to use miniatures and large scale mock-ups, which the feel can add a reality to their films, such as Aliens and Interstellar.

Apart from the 2 road cars (both filmed using duplicate registration plates), with the second converted to a camera car, here are some images to simply and clarify:

The Jetty scene.

A number of empty body shells were used until they got the scene correct. Apparently many sets of Wolfrace wheels were sent out to the Sardinian location. The rolling body shell was shot off the end of the jetty using an air canon, possibly guided with wires. Don't forget the car is shown being driven at speed towards the end of the jetty. This would not have been driven!

The Underwater Miniatures

Miniatures were used to film the Esprit entering the water from beneath the surface. These were filmed in the Bahamas due to the clarity of the water. Along with all the other underwater shots. Including those involving the Atlantis marine laboratory structure and the Liparus oil tanker and submarines. The former being left there after it was deliberately sunk, and is now a reef.

The Underwater Wet Nellie Scenes

A series of full-sized complete and partial mock-ups of the underwater Wet Nellie Esprit submarine were constructed in the Bahamas for the many different scenes, including the transition from the road car to a submarine after blowing up the helicopter (also a miniature before anyone asks!). I would imagine most if not all of these would have been filmed in the same location for continuity purposes. The tank at Pinewood being used for the main Atlantis interior (which incidentally was illuminated by Stanley Kubrick, as principal cinematographer Claude Renoir's eyesight was beginning to fail).

At least one was a wet, unpressurised submarine, which "surfaced" inside of a shipping container at Long Beach some years ago, and later purchased by Elon Musk at auction. The Esprit that emerged from the sea was also another mock-up and pulled up onto the beach by hidden cables. Hence the spoiler not being fitted, and one of the reasons I think the Bond car had a black spoiler. Regardless of what the Lotus Cars production line was doing at that time. In the same way the polished window surrounds and door handles were changed. All to make the film-makers life a little more simple.

Lastly, there was an interior mock-up of the Esprit made at Pinewood studios for the back projection and dashboard closeups shots.

I hope this helps clear up some of the misinformation that seems to circulate around this and other films.

 

[Paul Coleman]

The car which drove up onto the beach had a sweeping brush stuck to the underside to disguise the line created in the sand by the wire hahaha very high tech

[Fridge]

I wouldn't be surprised. Film-making is very practical, and stuff is improvised all the time.

TSWLM may have been the most expensive Bond film at that time, but they wouldn't have had money to burn.

Whatever works in the time available.