Can someone please check what I've done? Esprit S2 front suspension

[Daniel]

Once I unload the spring, the bottom arm will push down against the chassis plate, or will the top arm stop it?

[drdoom]

Don't know whether your approach is suitable as it seems the spring should be constrained by a strut type spring compressor in order to be removed safely. 

[CHANGES]

13 hours ago, Daniel said:

Once I unload the spring, the bottom arm will push down against the chassis plate, or will the top arm stop it?

No . The free length of the shock absorbed / damper inside the spring will restrict the travel length of the spring..   The damper basically locks the spring in place on the seats of the top chassis mount and lower arm ...  

[C43]

yes the damper is your droop stop. However I don't know if your spring compressor will unwind enough to allow it to be removed. you need all load out of the spring before the spring compressor gets to the end of the thread.

On my S3 I sat people on the car and used the weight of the car and supported the car via the front lower wishbone to compress the spring if that makes sense.

take your time!

[Daniel]

Yes, that's the problem I'm having. With no engine and other bits, it's very light.

The spring compressors clearly aren't correct for the job, so I'll have to weight up the car and compress the spring from underneath before I remove them.

Thanks for your help.

[C43]

haha yes when I took my old springs out and fitted new the body was off the chassis so mine was also pretty light! I ended up sitting my wife and oldest child on the front of the car to weight it down. A little bit sketchy but I know cars well so I was quite confident in what I was doing.

If you need any more info just shout.

[peteyg]

Can you use a trolley jack under the hub to give you a little compression whilst you undo the compressors?

Pete

[Daniel]

I can but it lifts the car well before the spring compresses much.

i need extra weight or perhaps heavy duty ratchet straps under the jack

[peteyg]

I've always used those spring compressors without problems although they are a very tight fit in the front suspension and not ideal for the job. If your shocks are attached there's no reason why you can't undo the compressors. There'll be enough weight from the body to stop it jumping up in the air r stick some ballast in the front boot if you're unsure.

Pete

[Daniel]

As I thought, when I unloaded the spring, the whole thing just seemed to over extend so the top arm touched the spring and the bottom arm touched the chassis.

Can't be right, surely.

[peteyg]

^{Yep. My lower arm touches the chassis when up on the lift. And remember you still have to tighten up the two long bolts when everything's back together and the car is correctly weighted down.}

^Pete

[drdoom]

Chatting with a mate who's had his Esprit since about '80 I was told the A-R bar would go into conflict with the steering rack tie-rod at full droop. Not an appealing thought but I suppose the instances of full droop in operation should be quite infrequent. Appears that full droop aspects were of little concern in the original development of the car. Haven't yet done much in this area of the restoration since initial tear-down, will likely equip with one of those strut type compressors in hope of managing the springs during reassembly when the time comes.

[Daniel]

Managed to find some other images on line. It actually looks right. I just don’t ever remember noticing that the bottom arm leaned on the chassis. That’s going to chip the paint every time I lift it.

Anyway, I’m just excited to see bits finally going back on!

 

[C43]

looks nice. Mine was the same. My chassis has been "tweaked" to give a bit more clearance.

BTW my anti roll bar. did hit my steering arm on full droop but I think it was because I had it fitted upside down. Now the ARB is the correct way around its fine.

With the Willwood callipers make sure the brake line can't rub on the upright. 

cheers

Christian 

[Daniel]

1 hour ago, C43 said:

looks nice. Mine was the same. My chassis has been "tweaked" to give a bit more clearance.

BTW my anti roll bar. did hit my steering arm on full droop but I think it was because I had it fitted upside down. Now the ARB is the correct way around its fine.

With the Willwood callipers make sure the brake line can't rub on the upright. 

cheers

Christian 

Thanks for the info', I'll definitely be careful with the brake line.

Just need to separate the front hubs from the disks now. I forgot that was a job I gave up on...... something to look forward to!!

[peteyg]

Just noticed the ARB isn't attached so of course the whole lot will droop much further than normal. 

Pete

[Daniel]

Nice one Pete. I was hoping that the ARB would pull it up. I'm just having that re-finished as I dropped it.

Plenty of other stuff to be cracking on with!!

I got my refurbished radiator back the other day. I was disappointed with the finish as they'd basically just tidied up and sprayed the frame and it was very pitted and tatty. That was what I'd asked for but I didn't think it was that bad. Anyway, I've sent it back for them to fit a new stainless steel frame.

In the meantime, I've ordered a much better quality spring compressor, so the other side should be an easier job.

[C43]

my hubs came away from the discs quite easily but I did soak in WD40 for a while.

BTW on my Wilwood I ended up with different spacer setup left and right. Something is obviously wrong but I never found out what despite measuring and re measuring a lot! 

Also remember you need to set wheel bearing endfloat with callipers removed.

Oh and on the bleed nipples I see to remember you just undo the top part of the nipple, not the bottom, or something like that. I got it wrong the first couple of times and was wondering why they would not bleed properly.

either way you will probably need to go around twice then drive the car then bleed again.

cheers

C43

my hubs came away from the discs quite easily but I did soak in WD40 for a while.

BTW on my Wilwood I ended up with different spacer setup left and right. Something is obviously wrong but I never found out what despite measuring and re measuring a lot! 

Also remember you need to set wheel bearing endfloat with callipers removed.

Oh and on the bleed nipples I see to remember you just undo the top part of the nipple, not the bottom, or something like that. I got it wrong the first couple of times and was wondering why they would not bleed properly.

either way you will probably need to go around twice then drive the car then bleed again.

cheers

C43

 

ps great looking car!

[Daniel]

@C43, Christian did you have to adapt your dust shields for the Wilwood calipers? Just done a test fit and they seem to need cutting.

[drdoom]

Agree with Christian's advice and would add to further examine potential contact of brake hose with wheel rim, something to check with spring, shock and A-R bar not in place, wheel/tyre on,  so being able to sweep upright through arc of travel and turning left/right. I once inadvertently tweaked the rear brake hose position on an Elan in the course of exchanging broken diff axle trackside, later had total loss of brakes when the alloy rim cut through the S/S hose after miles of highway driving. Mighty grateful I'd had the sense to retreat from original plan to return home driving the Pacific Coast Highway with its hairpins and cliff edges over the ocean. 😬

[GTK]

I know I'm pulling this chat out of the vault but I'm glad to find it because I've just noticed that my front arms have been bottoming out on the chassis and making a mess of it. I've straightened the chassis plates and the whole bottom panel is removed in the photos below, but both were fairly badly damaged before I worked on them.

I read that @C43 has made modifications, and was just wondering what kind? Has anyone else made modifications they'd be wiling to show? As the photos below show, the shock absorbers do not act as bump stops. The dampers on my car are aftermarket but when the bottom arms hit the chassis there's still another 25mm / 1" of travel in the damper. [the pin line on the damper body I'm measuring from is the extent of travel in the unit at the point of bottom arm contacting chassis.

I don't think bending the panels away from the bottom arm would be good for the structural integrity, nor would it create enough free space for full travel. I'm leaning toward a horse show shaped reinforcement in that area, to allow the bottom arm to pass through, this could also be engineered to serve as a jacking point, but I'm torn by originality. 

That said, the types of road these cars excel on are the types of roads that have fast crests. I don't want to have to back off 

[910Esprit]

Can someone to measure the extended length of an original damper off the car?   All bets are off for any measurements with aftermarket units.  (in your case George, I assume they are longer than standard)   I'd be pretty confident that the original setup avoids any chassis to link contact.  I could even imagine it being an MOT fail if a tester spotted it.

[GTK]

Yeah fair enough Steve. It would definitely be good to know the length of an OEM damper. I did check with some fellow Esprit owners and more than one has experienced the same damage to the chassis.

[Barrykearley]

I simply can’t explain just how compressed the fronts need to be to fit.

[drdoom]

Hello George,

I've an original Armstrong or 2 lurking in the garage as it happens, just went out and measured 342 - 343mm at full extension. This is from lower through-bolt centerline to the top face of the isolator perch welded integral with the damper stud and minus the rubber isolator cushion. I see the dampers on your car have been bolted through the upper hole in the lower TCA and I believe this to be incorrect. Put together in this way would assure excess downward angle of the TCA so accounting for the clash with the chassis closing plate of the turret. I'd also worry that the steering rack tie-rods would then be tasked with containing final extension of the spring once the aggrieved chassis metal had done yielding. No help from the Shop Manuals on the question of which lower damper attachment is correct, as far as I've found. Reference to bump stop is misleading in this instance, as that would pertain to clash in the opposite direction, right?

Best regards