Lotus and Centrica Agree Partnership to Redesign Electric Vehicle Ownership

[KAS-118]

Interesting news 

https://www.prnewswire.co.uk/news-releases/lotus-and-centrica-agree-partnership-to-redesign-electric-vehicle-ownership-867457959.html

And now up in the Lotus Media Centre 

https://media.lotuscars.com/en/news-articles/lotus-and-centrica-agree-partnership-to-redesign-electric-vehicle-ownership.html

Edited May 11, 2020 by KAS-118

[C8RKH]

Yup. Sad news. Sounds like I'll not be buying a new Lotus soon then. Feels like all the effort is going in to "not" for the drivers to be honest as Lotus races to be something new and fully ditch the past. I do hope that I am wrong.

Never met anyone who likes their links more than you lol.....   I once got a prize on here, a nice Lotus pen, for the most likes in a day, maybe you'll get one for links.....    hehehehehehe.....

 

[Colin P]

40 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

 Feels like all the effort is going in to "not" for the drivers to be honest as Lotus races to be something new and fully ditch the past. I do hope that I am wrong.

 

 

Did you not read it. It clearly says "with a new range of cars that remain true to our fundamental promise of always being ‘For The Drivers."  

[C8RKH]

10 minutes ago, Colin P said:

Did you not read it. It clearly says "with a new range of cars that remain true to our fundamental promise of always being ‘For The Drivers."  

Yeah - that bit - "For the Drivers" was added by marketing as a sop to the older generation of Lotus fan boys like me........!  

[The Pits]

I welcome any kind of radical thinking at Lotus, we haven't had any to date. It's probably best for them to go all-in on electric at this point and get the jump on everyone else to make the first range of electric sports cars that are fantastic to drive. Though I don't think that's the plan.

But the virus lockdown will fast forward environmental/climate change agendas, it has already by proving that we can all travel less than we used to and there will be reams of data showing the benefits of this unique global experiment. Consumption of 

No point in continuing ICE cars just because they sound nice. You can make an electric car sound like anything you want with a little imagination. How about a button to make your electric Elise sound like an Esprit V8, Exige 260, Cosworth DFV, or F1 Renault V6 Turbo, the Lotus 102 had a Lamborghini V12!

However no actual detail in the press release at all, just empty puffery still at this stage. Not easy to decipher the buzzword heavy blurb but it suggests that buying an electric Lotus will come with a deal to switch to Centrica. Does point heavily towards all-electric Lotus range asap. The plans to do one last V6 must be hanging by a thread!

[C8RKH]

2 minutes ago, The Pits said:

But the virus lockdown will fast forward environmental/climate change agendas, it has already by proving that we can all travel less than we used to and there will be reams of data showing the benefits of this unique global experiment.

Yes and no. All the lock down has proven so far is that if the majority of people do not go to work, then travel whether by car, public transport, plane, foot or bike reduces significantly in almost a parallel line with the drop in government taxation revenues, GDP, wages, emissions etc. None of these drops are sustainable at this point in time. (just watch the first ministers in Scotland, Wales and NI start to whinge like whores when the UK govt. starts to increase the GDP and tax take in England whilst their continued policy of enforced lockdown results in less economic activity).

As the lock down eases and people start returning to work, travel will increase as well as wages, government taxation, GDP, emissions etc.

Also, the number of cars bought brand new each year, whilst being a considerable number, will take some time to replace the 25m+ vehicles that are older than 3 years.  These older cars generally stay around longer as they are bought by people with less disposable income, and so they tend to keep and run for longer to minimise the impact on depreciation and drive value etc. It will be a long time before these people can exploit EV's. Then, don''t get me started on how long it will take to get chargers installed on our congested city / town streets as again these people tend to live in higher density areas that lack the physical space for additional street furniture and capacity for the local infrastructure etc. Oh, but that would get me started on us needing a true, intelligent, NATIONAL PLAN for transport, excuse me whilst I roll on the floor in hysterics at the thought of our politicians being able to tackle that one.... :)

Contrary to what some people think, I'm not a laggard on this. A realist yes. We need a plan! A proper plan. To make it work otherwise it will be a cluster fook just like smart meters and the rest.

[blindside]

For a variety of reasons Centrica has been in deep sh-t for some considerable time. It’s a nightmare stock for long term investors. The mass exodus of their customer base and inadequate senior leadership in recent times speaks volumes. It’s certainly an interesting choice of business partner for Lotus...😢

https://moneyweek.com/investments/stockmarkets/uk-stockmarkets/601177/centrica-the-only-way-is-up

[KAS-118]

18 minutes ago, The Pits said:

I welcome any kind of radical thinking at Lotus, we haven't had any to date. It's probably best for them to go all-in on electric at this point and get the jump on everyone else to make the first range of electric sports cars that are fantastic to drive. 

I agree that it makes more sense of Lotus to go for an all Electric powertrain - you may as well get a purpose built chassis for that now, rather than take a short term view of incorporating an Internal Combustion Engine. 

I find it disappointing that before they've even put out any proposals (other than the Evija - what in my mind is bl**dy fantastic) people are already assuming the new cars aren't going to be any fun.

The initial reviews of the Porsche Taycan are very favourable https://www.forbes.com/sites/markewing/2020/05/10/porsche-taycan-turbo-s-mountain-drive-if-this-is-the-future-i-want-to-live-forever/#8f075bb7356f - and if Porsche can make an Electric car that is fun to drive - then I have every confidence that Lotus can too .

[C8RKH]

Who said they are not going to be fun?

Electric cars can be fast and some think that fast on it's own is all you need for fun. However, for some people the driving experience is about ALL the senses being titillated and that includes your hearing.

Electric is coming, we all get it, however we don't all need to look forward to it right now. The future is not always better than the past.

Let me put it another way:

38 years ago in 1982 the first commercial CD's were launched and they were going to kill off vinyl and provide a "better" user experience - so what do you say to people who still to this day prefer Vinyl, buy vinyl and spend tens of thousands of pounds on the hi fi equipment to play vinyl on? Oh, and Vinyl sales are rocketing in volumes again across the world

Or what about books - 25 years ago in 1995, Amazon started to sell books and the world was told the printed book was dead, ebooks were going to revolutionise the world and kill off the physical book and bookshops - 20 years later in 2015 Amazon opened it's first physical bookstore and by 2018 it had 18 book stores open! Sales of physical books are on the increase.

In 2021, Ellon Musk launches his next big idea - a computer chip to be inserted in your brain that will heal "any brain illness/condition and make human language obsolete within 5 years" - who is in the queue to get this one installed first? 

So, 20 years from now, the type of people who buy books, vinyl and don't trust a Musk chip in their brain today, will likely be the type of people who are buying old Lotus with ICE for fun and happiness and the sheer delight to ALL the senses. Just a thought.

[ChrisJ]

2 hours ago, The Pits said:

How about a button to make your electric Elise sound like an Esprit V8, Exige 260, Cosworth DFV, or F1 Renault V6 Turbo, the Lotus 102 had a Lamborghini V12!

No thanks.

[yeller77]

"For the drivers who want their car to be a better appliance"

There, fixed it for them. If it takes $200,00 and the marketing insult to call their BEV a "Turbo S," I'll just go chill out listening to one of my vinyls. 

[hedgerley]

Lotus has form of course. Reading this thread reminded of the introduction of the Tesla Roadster. It had its naysayers who said it would never sell but it was very well received and Tesla managed to shift 2500 of them (see https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/tesla/roadster-2008-2012/verdict.) A very nice cash injection for Lotus who badly needed it at that time. The Tesla drive train initially went in to an Elise of course. Considering this was around 15 years ago and the advances in battery and motor technologies since then as well as the reduction in costs, a new electric sports car from Lotus, notwithstanding the Evija, will no doubt be a very fine thing (those early Roadsters can actually be upgraded to the latest tech by Tesla - I wouldn't say no....). And the ability to integrate with home and the grid seamlessly is a very attractive proposition.

I've come to realise that time waits for no man. I'm just grateful that Lotus is still around and if that means they have to go BEV sooner rather than later, then so be it.

[C8RKH]

10 minutes ago, hedgerley said:

And the ability to integrate with home and the grid seamlessly is a very attractive proposition.

The hype sounds brilliant yes, but go back ten years, nay 15 years, and read the hype that led the EU to mandate a smart meter for every home in Europe!  There is still a huge amount of bollocks and hype out there about so called smart appliances, and connectivity, and how it is going to do this and that. I'm really not holding my breath as to what Centrica will be contributing in this space, they couldn't even spend hundreds of millions to get a bloody billing system to work properly first time!

Of course we need to look to what can be in the future, that's how we make progress. I'm actually awaiting the announcement from Lotus on the new Lotus Type 108 which will have two bottle holders (who needs cups when you can have bottles?), a 30kWh motor and a range of 1,000 miles at an average of 35 mph and KERS energy recovery from the rotor brakes!  Now that will be revolutionary.

I don't doubt anyone does not think the future is coming. In fact I'm looking forward to September 2020 when the new Robert Harris book, The Second Sleep comes out. I think it will be a very poignant read for everyone as it's a fascinating scenario that is being tackled.

My biggest problem is that it will likely be three years since the 430 cars came out, and 12 years since we've had a true new model (not more special edition paints) if you discount the Evija. That's a long time, with a lot of empty promises, broken promises, and "smart investments" that turned out to be quite dumb.  My patience is running thin and it would be great to really see something, for the drivers, that was a true, tangible, direction of the future for Lotus. How long does the management need to get their shit together?  But of course, our love for the brand, the history, and the DNA will keep us loyal and so we'll wait blindly at the bus stop, hoping one day a bus will come, and not really giving a shit whether it is an electric or a petrol one, just as long as it comes. And of course, there likely won't be just one. But the usual two buses that arrive in quick succession. I just hope where they take us is truly where we want to go...

[KAS-118]

2 hours ago, C8RKH said:

Who said they are not going to be fun?

Electric cars can be fast and some think that fast on it's own is all you need for fun. However, for some people the driving experience is about ALL the senses being titillated and that includes your hearing.

Electric is coming, we all get it, however we don't all need to look forward to it right now. The future is not always better than the past.

Let me put it another way:

38 years ago in 1982 the first commercial CD's were launched and they were going to kill off vinyl and provide a "better" user experience - so what do you say to people who still to this day prefer Vinyl, buy vinyl and spend tens of thousands of pounds on the hi fi equipment to play vinyl on? Oh, and Vinyl sales are rocketing in volumes again across the world

Or what about books - 25 years ago in 1995, Amazon started to sell books and the world was told the printed book was dead, ebooks were going to revolutionise the world and kill off the physical book and bookshops - 20 years later in 2015 Amazon opened it's first physical bookstore and by 2018 it had 18 book stores open! Sales of physical books are on the increase.

In 2021, Ellon Musk launches his next big idea - a computer chip to be inserted in your brain that will heal "any brain illness/condition and make human language obsolete within 5 years" - who is in the queue to get this one installed first? 

So, 20 years from now, the type of people who buy books, vinyl and don't trust a Musk chip in their brain today, will likely be the type of people who are buying old Lotus with ICE for fun and happiness and the sheer delight to ALL the senses. Just a thought.

Well to answer your first question I suggest you look at the 'Future of Lotus' and 'Is Electric the Answer' threads. Indeed, even your post suggests its a negative thing.

Whist I agree that change isn't always for the better - it doesn't necessary mean its for the worst either. 

I find your analogies are somewhat missing the point. CD's contain music - what makes music 'fun' is usually the music on the record, tape, CD or indeed electronic file. The format of how you listen to it may affect the experience the user has - but the format is, IMHO, only a small part of the 'fun' of listening to a piece of music.

As to your 'look back at nostalgia' you seem to forget Steaming and Downloading is now king nor that Tapes have not had a revival. Whilst the sales of 'Vinyl' may have increased - it is remains very much the minority - as can be seen form the graphs here https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jan/01/uk-music-purchases-hit-highest-level-since-2006

You can also spend £10's of 000's on HiFi equipment to listen to music in electronic format too.

Turning to your book example - as with music, the enjoyment of a book is mainly the content - not the format. Whilst it may be 'fun' thumbing through pages - it is not fun having to carry say 10 books on your back-packing holiday - when you could put them on your phone or iPad. Likewise, its no fun having to wait for Regulations or Scientific Papers to be sent to you in the post, when you could otherwise get documents by downloading.

And so with cars - what makes a car fun is its driver involvement, feeling part of the machine instead of remote from it. But its just a possible to have a 'boring' Internal Combustion Engine Car (indeed look back at history - there are LOADS of them) as it is possible to have a 'fun' electronic vehicle. Sure the noise and smells may be different - but you can get new noises and new smells what all add to the experience. A rocket sounds and smells different to a propeller plane - but a Rocket can be fun.......

[C8RKH]

26 minutes ago, KAS-118 said:

Well to answer your first question I suggest you look at the 'Future of Lotus' and 'Is Electric the Answer' threads. Indeed, even your post suggests its a negative thing.

I give up with you. Mute button back on.

[KAS-118]

7 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

I give up with you. Mute button back on.

🙄🙄🙄

[PAR]

I am very excited about this. How can I use the mute button ? !!!

[C8RKH]

11 hours ago, PAR said:

I am very excited about this. How can I use the mute button ? !!!

Easiest way is find where I have liked a post. Hovver over my name by the emoji and you will see a box appear. Bottom line of the box is an option to " x ignore user" and you can select to mute my content - either all of it, or just posts, messages, etc.

Simples.

[The Pits]

2 hours ago, ChrisJ said:

No thanks.

Given the alternative is the sound of a milk float?

I should have mentioned that there was also a button which synthesizes Turbo Esprit wastegate flutter!

[Bibs]

https://newatlas.com/lotus-active-noise-control/11486/

Lotus were developing the HALOSonic sound synthesiser over a decade ago. 

[KAS-118]

Lots of cars now use valves etc to 'enhance' the noise artificially - so IMHO it's not such a big step to have a fairly silent car that 'plays' an exhaust note to you - if you so wish - indeed I think the BMWi8 did that.

So, if the 'driving experience' is increased to the better by an exhaust noise - why not?

I believe a number of Lotuses can't be used at certain tracks because they exceed the noise limit - clearly cars with quite engines solve those problems - and if you have the oppertunity and desire to have it louder else where - then surely that's a win win?

[Bibs]

3 minutes ago, KAS-118 said:

So, if the 'driving experience' is increased to the better by an exhaust noise - why not?

That's the rub. While for the average Joe the synthesised sound may make then feel good about their car, but someone who appreciates a fine sports car will want a real sound, the sound of power and engineering, the symphony of cylinders. Artificial sounds will always be that, no matter the the fidelity and quality. 

[KAS-118]

14 minutes ago, Bibs said:

That's the rub. While for the average Joe the synthesised sound may make then feel good about their car, but someone who appreciates a fine sports car will want a real sound, the sound of power and engineering, the symphony of cylinders. Artificial sounds will always be that, no matter the the fidelity and quality. 

True - but isn't an engine with a valve that opens up to make more of a noise also a tad artificial?

I can appreciate what you say - but most the noise that we associate with cars are merely because it was a by-product of the propulsion system - so we've got used to it.

New systems creates new sounds - which eventually people also get used to. 

Ultimately, you have to weigh-up the benefit of having a true noise from a finely tuned Internal Combustion Engine - that you may not be able to quieten down, even if your neighbours or even you, wanted to - plus the other environmental effects; a more 'environmentally friendly but almost noiseless EV; or an EV which makes am artificial sound that say is 95% of what your favourite ICE is?

Given that there are proposals (which indeed may have already been passed) that requires EV's to make a noise when travelling at low speed, you could do a lot worse than choose an (artificial) sound of a rumbling V8 🙂

[Bibs]

4 minutes ago, KAS-118 said:

True - but isn't an engine with a valve that opens up to make more of a noise also a tad artificial?

In what what? Does a hifi come on when it's opened? It's engine noise, pure and loud. It doesn't make more noise, it just lets more of the noise that exists out of the exhaust pipe. Absolutely not in the slightest way artificial at all. Every single car in the world has a silencer so no cars are pure out of the exhaust valves noise, a valve just complies with noise regulations, driver fatigue and consideration for your neighbours.

 

[KAS-118]

2 minutes ago, Bibs said:

In what what? Does a hifi come on when it's opened? It's engine noise, pure and loud. It doesn't make more noise, it just lets more of the noise that exists out of the exhaust pipe. Absolutely not in the slightest way artificial at all. Every single car in the world has a silencer so no cars are pure out of the exhaust valves noise, a valve just complies with noise regulations, driver fatigue and consideration for your neighbours.

 

Hmmm... 🤔, I guess that is a fair point - and I do appreciate the distinction between a genuine sound and a synthesised sound.

But on the basis that the petrol ICE is unlikely to survive in cars over say the next 15-20 years, and you left with a choice of a pure electric engine sound - or a synthesised V8 sound - I'm not so sure its such a bad thing - and the ability to turn on or off the sound does have its own benefits.