'84 Turbo brakes

[NigelM]

I am essentially a new '84 Esprit Turbo owner. Had the car since 2016 but it's been off the road being rebuilt and not really ever driven it before now.

Had a fantastic weekend playing. I'm taking it gently (no more that 4000 rpm) for the first 500 miles, then oil change, then play in anger. So I'm not pushing at the moment.

The only slight disappointment this weekend was the brakes. The pedal is quite soft. It gradually get's harder and the brakes are effective when you get down to the bottom of the travel, but you do have to push the pedal a bit further than I would like. It's not at the bottom of the footwell and doesn't feel dangerous, just not very sharp. Trying to heel & toe is going to be a bit of a problem.

I don't know whether this is normal for an Esprit or whether I have a problem with the braking system and wondered if anyone could lend there considerable experience and enlighten me.

If a soft pedal is pretty standard for the car is there anything anyone has successfully done to improve it without completely rebuilding the system? I'm looking to keep fairly original so don't want to change to a PNM system or similar - just want to get the best out of the original.

Thanks for the help.

[sailorbob]

Assuming the brake servo assistance is OK, what are the pads? The pad material can make a big difference to brake feel.

[910Esprit]

Using standard pads and standard setup (other than braided hoses)  My pedal is firm from top of travel.   (in fact pedal feels rock hard with engine off and servo depleted).   Is yours still soft with engine off?   (I'm assuming you have already changed fluid?)  

Should have mentioned thats on solid discs & girling calipers - think 84 was transition year for later setup.  Do you know which you have?

Edited July 13, 2020 by 910Esprit

[C43]

Might be worth giving it another bleed. I also have an 84 turbo and after a complete rebuild I had to bleed it a couple of times to get the pedal back.

I also find heel and toe difficult due to pedal positioning (even with a stiff brake pedal) but have mastered it after some driving.

 

[Bazza 907]

Not normal. Brakes should be very good.

[jcslocum]

Does the refurb include rebuilt calipers???

[pete]

Compared to modern car brakes are not fantastic.

[C43]

Ditto, mine are fully refurbished with braided hoses front and rear and new fluid and everything rebuilt, and I agree they are not great. Its an old car so not surprising but given the acceleration I do have to remind myself that the brakes will not be as good as say the Evora I used to have. 

[ChrisJ]

Brakes are the worst part of the car, this isn't a modern issue as they always have been a bit crap - I've lost all braking after 6 laps of Goodwood back in the day. They were fine 15 minutes later though. They should start to bite much further up the pedal.

The advice I was given after a rebuild of two engines (Excel SE & Turbo Esprit) - by Gerald at GST - run in at no more than 3000 rpm for the first 1500 miles, oil change, then 1000rpm increase every 500 miles. Keep with the semi synthetic oil for 10000 miles after which switch to fully synthetic - switching to fully synthetic too soon can lead to a "slow" engine. I've followed his advice both times, and polished off the 1500 miles in around 6 weeks.

 

 

 

[NigelM]

Thank you very much for all the replies. Interesting mix of opinions from brakes should be very good to not very good at all. Not quite sure where mine fit's into that mix. 

Looks like I need to find out exactly what my set up is in terms of discs, pads, hoses and calipers first. I then need to see what it's like engine off vs engine on and then see if pumping the pedal makes the feel any harder. 

In terms of the running in, Barry Ely did the rebuild. He's been doing it for 40 years including a lot of racing engines for himself and others. He has already put 250 miles on it in road testing. Instructions to me were to take it east for another 250, max 4000 rpm, and then take it back to him for an oil change and check up. After that it should be good to go. I'm happy to go with his advice. 

I will do my homework and then come back for more advice. 

Edited July 13, 2020 by NigelM

[top-plumber]

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by Bibs

[Bazza 907]

Have to differ with a few here. The brakes on my Essex are very good. I'd say not far off the Merc and Porsche.

 

[NigelM]

Thank you @top-plumber. I read that thread with interest, but I'm not tracking the car and I don't drive that hard on the road anymore. I just want to make sure the brakes are working as well as they were designed to do, which should be enough for me.

Good to hear @Bazza 907.

[910Esprit]

I agree.  I still find the brakes as good as the contemporary reviewers found them and more than adequate for modern traffic.   (that's more than 40k miles of all year round G Turbo serious road use}.