TOQ's Exige Orange Exige Cup 430 Final Edition

[Paul_D]

@Toqcars

On the road on run factory settings. 

I haven't actually messed around with settings on track. I have copied the settings that @Texprovided in his project thread and stuck with them. They were provided to him by a suspension specialist and they seem to work well, even if I don't really understand the reasoning behind the values. Clicks from full hard:

Front - Rebound 6  Low speed 4  High speed 8

Rear - Rebound 4  Lowe Speed 8  High speed 4

Adjusting the dampers when the car is hot is actually ok. I do put a pair of gloves on, but there's nothing directly next to them which will burn you. 

[Toqcars]

Hard to understand this setting. But hey, since there are couple of Exige drivers happy with it, it’s worth trying 😀

So way stiffer rebound and way softer damping, especially on rear 🤔 Which is quite the opposite I wanted to set. 
 

I increased low and high speed damping, but can’t feel difference on the highway. Need to do some regular road or track driving. 
 

I also noticed that the rear Michelin Cup2 are more or less done after the two track days and approx 3000 miles of fast road. Managed to snap rear Pirelli Trofeo R and still looking for the frons. Found out that Pirelli stopped producing Trofeo R for the Exige dimension. I guess we will stick to the Cup2 and Ar01 for a while. Are there any other alternative tires I am not aware of?

[Martrack]

20 hours ago, Toqcars said:

Found out that Pirelli stopped producing Trofeo R for the Exige dimension.

Really ?
Any source ?

Thx 👍

[Toqcars]

1 hour ago, Martrack said:

Really ?
Any source ?

Thx 👍

Got this info from my local distributor. Also when checked the Pirelli webpage, can’t find our dimension:

https://www.pirelli.com/tyres/en-ww/motorsport/all-tyres/products-sheet/p-zero-trofeo-r#gallery-0

[Martrack]

Strange, they would then have produced the corresponding sizes for a very short time, as they began around mid-2020...
https://www.thelotusforums.com/forums/topic/107089-semi-slick-tyres-for-sport-410-cup-430-and-some-others/#comment-901876

 

[Toqcars]

Well, that’s interesting. Looks like we were not buying enough. Need to check whether 225 would fit. 

[Toqcars]

Just finished the 3rd track day with the Exige. There was another vivid green Exige Cup 430 as well 😀 What a color, love it 👌 Don't have a nice photo of both, but you can see it on the left:

 

There was some cruncing when shifting into the 5th gear. This is the first time it was noticed. I am changing the transmission fluid, which might mitigate the problem (more about it under the engine and gearbox category).

Lower pressure was used like @Paul_D suggested, so 2.0 (2.1 before) bar front and 2.2 bar rear. Haven't detected any difference.

Damping was increased (hardened). I taught it will be better especially for the nose diving under heavy braking, but laptimes were 0.5 s slower (also due to the weather and traffic). Also noticed less grip when hitting the curbs. 

Michelin cup2 still has soft side wall. Some people love it, I don't like it at all. Don't trust the car because of it. Check some photos of the sidewall during the curves:

 

Rear camber is at 1.7°, front at 1.5°. This was the maximum with the OEM uprights and arms. Front tire wear is more or less equal (1 mm more on the outside), rear tire wear is higher on the outside. It's approx 1.5 + 2.0 mm higher at 50% of average tire wear. So quite a lot. Also edge of the second ring is gone, so 0.0 mm 😂 Would like to increase camber, but since car is understeering a lot, that would be a bad idea. Waiting for the bump steer kit by Elise Parts to increase front camber. After that, rear camber would be increased. Any experiences what is the best camber for the front not to kill braking performances of the Exige too much? Should I go on MAX or 2.0° front and 2.5° rear? I will switch to 225 front tires to compensate at least a bit for the lost braking performance. But let me kill those cup2 first 😂

FRONT:

REAR:

 

Oh yeah and big news... RACE TC was used on the track for the first time. Unfortunately just for the last session... but boy I like it. SPORT TC is crap compared to this. When the SPORT TC intervenes (especially on the exits), it throws the car left - right - left - right like crazy and you have to catch it. It's fine on mid corner. But you are affraid of it on exits, so you are driving slower. RACE TC is next level. It slides like described, not once, but few times. After that car is well planted, smooth, way faster on the curves. As said, I just did a few laps with the RACE TC, so can't tell a lot. But for sure it's WOW for the track and car is behaving totally different (better). However, I still think that approx 150 laps on the SPORT TC is needed before switching to the RACE TC. It might be because this is my first Lotus... but car it totally different than anything else and you need practice. 

 

 

Edited April 5, 2022 by Toqcars

[Paul_D]

@toqcars Your rear camber setting sounds a bit low. I'm at work so can't check, but I thought even the standard OEM setting was something like 2°15m. I'm sure that's what mine is, and my rear tyre wear is pretty even I think.

[Toqcars]

@Paul_D please check and let me know. Because this would explain a lot. I’ve called my alignment shop. They did another Cup 430 and rear camber was similar, so far from the numbers you are mentioning. 

[Paul_D]

@Toqcars

Yep, my memory was correct for a change. 
 

[DangerousDave]

I know 225/45/17 nankings fit but i'm gonna shoot for 235/40/18 with custom offsets.

 

[Toqcars]

@Paul_D thanks for sharing your alignment. I see that my car is set quite conservative now. Was sure that almost 1° of difference between the front and rear camber would be too much. Is your car understeering a lot?

 

@DangerousDave do you need to modify the fender for it, or will custom offset solved the issue? Really wounder whether/how 235 would fit. 235 is also ar01?

[Paul_D]

@toqcars

I'll be honest, I'm sure if I'm a good enough driver to accurately comment on how badly the car is understeering. I will give my opinion, but please don't consider it to be definitive. A better driver may drive my car and think completely differently. 

In slower hairpin corners there is a fair amount of understeer, but then to be honest I've found that in most cars I've owned. It may be the way I approach those types of corners.

In the medium to fast corners the car to me seems fairly balanced, and depending on my inputs it may well be the rear that loses grip first rather than the front. 

[JPatrao]

Hey, 

i have tested Toyo r888 , AR1, Cup2 and Now Dunlop Direzza dz03.

My opinion is based on average of 12 trackdays per year for the last 3 years in Dubai Autodrome and Yas Marina Circuit.

Toyo r888 - i haven't liked at all and the car was lacking pace all around.

Cup2 - too soft walls a lack of grip, but lasted 10 trackdays and still ok for road use.

Ar1 - very impressed with performance vs Cost , handles temps quite well and making good laptimes, very stiff walls 

Direzza d03g - its another game, 3 sec faster than Ar1 and 7sec faster than Cup2

 

Cons of AR1 and D03g are you dont find rear size so i had to go with 295-30-18.

From now on i will only run Dunlops if i can find them, it completely transformed the experience of driving my exige.

My exige is:

350 exige - komotec 430

430 cup wing

430 cup diffuser

-1,75 camber front

-2,25 camber rear

standard ride height 

nitron 46mm 3 way

exige forged wheels

[Toqcars]

4 hours ago, Paul_D said:

In slower hairpin corners there is a fair amount of understeer, but then to be honest I've found that in most cars I've owned. It may be the way I approach those types of corners.

In the medium to fast corners the car to me seems fairly balanced, and depending on my inputs it may well be the rear that loses grip first rather than the front. 

That's interesting, because I don't notice any understeer during the slow cornering. Oversteer is problematic only when it's torque induced, so gentle gas pedal operation helps a lot. But understeer at high speed is something I would like to get rid of. Based on your alignment setting, your understeer should even be worse. Could be that nitron setting do some magic, so I need to try your nitron setting to report. Hey, and I don't treat myself as a pro racing driver. More like sunday cup driver 😂

4 hours ago, JPatrao said:

Hey, 

i have tested Toyo r888 , AR1, Cup2 and Now Dunlop Direzza dz03.

My opinion is based on average of 12 trackdays per year for the last 3 years in Dubai Autodrome and Yas Marina Circuit.

Toyo r888 - i haven't liked at all and the car was lacking pace all around.

Cup2 - too soft walls a lack of grip, but lasted 10 trackdays and still ok for road use.

Ar1 - very impressed with performance vs Cost , handles temps quite well and making good laptimes, very stiff walls 

Direzza d03g - its another game, 3 sec faster than Ar1 and 7sec faster than Cup2

Thanks for the input. Never seen the D03G on a Lotus, also very surprise that it's 3 s faster than the AR01. That's light years ahead. Have you ever tested the YOKOHAMA ADVAN A052? It should be better than the AR01 (for the exige)... so in the direzza direction.

Can't get 7 seconds of difference out of my head. Is it even possible that there is such a difference. I mean they are both semi-slicks, not slicks.  I guess I will be ordering direzzas soon 😀

[JPatrao]

I was looking for those Advan A052 also but I had better feedback overall online about direzzas.

trofeo R have great feedback on some exiges also but I was looking for something with stiffer side walls. Also it was easier for me to find the direzzas through Tegiwa online store.

 

[Exx]

Dz03g are not homologated no ? And super expensive 

[Tex]

5 minutes ago, Exx said:

Dz03g are not homologated no ? And super expensive 

Not road legal 

[Toqcars]

Prices for the rear (295 here is like that)

CUP2 395.00

Trofeo Race  430.00

DZ03G 460.00

So yes, it's the most expensive one. 

PS: Hankook Ventus TD (Z221) 540.00

Everyone tested those on the Exige?

Edited April 6, 2022 by Toqcars

[theplanner]

I would think if u r trying to dial out under steer, the following is what I would do (and do it in steps to see what works for u as we all drive a bit differently)

- more -ve camber front than rear 

- a bit of rake

- more trail braking because of the weight distribution of these cars

- stiffen rear sway bar (if adjustable) altho from my experience this has not helped my track times lol

- turn TC completely off so electronic Nannie’s doesn’t intervene ur inputs

the stock setup is inherently understeery I presume for safety reasons.

 

[Toqcars]

@theplanner thanks for your recommendation. Based on alignment most of the lotus drivers use and based on a rubber wear, first step is to change front camber to 2.1 - 2.2 and rear to 2.5. Let’s see  this will perform. Than switch to Trofeo R or AD052. 
 

Not sure if I am brave enough YET to test it without the TC (on the fast track). Just notices that the SPORT TC is limiting me so I am only now switching to the RACE. But you are right, could be that the TC in sport mode is so conservative that it’s inducing the understeer without showing it on the dash. That would actually make sense. But would also mean that I am panicking without a reason. Ok, 1.7 deg of rear camber is still conservative 😀

 

So you drive with the TC off on the track? Do you notice and understeer when entering the curve?  

[DangerousDave]

How about the R888R i'm told thats the newest verison

 

Edited April 7, 2022 by DangerousDave

[Toqcars]

1 hour ago, DangerousDave said:

How about the R888R i'm told thats the newest verison

 

It would be great if it's good since it's quite cheap (prices below). But bason on ona particular test, it's not that good:

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2017-Track-Day-Tyre-Test.htm

Pricing in EU:

R888R 290.00

CUP2 395.00

Trofeo Race  430.00

DZ03G 460.00

Hankook Ventus TD (Z221) 540.00

[theplanner]

@Toqcars i think the level of understeer each driver experience can vary from many factors but I think what’s important to note on the exiges is that their weight distribution is more akin to a classic 911 then a typical mid engine car.  So in other words, to gain its max potential one needs to drive it like a 911. Slow in fast out, and use plenty of trail braking. Few yrs ago, I went from a mid engine car to a GT3, and i understeer so badly thru every corner that I wondered at the time, why do ppl rave about GT3…lol until I learned to drive it properly to suit its inherent weight transfer characteristics.  Any way I’m no driving god just an ordinary bloke who enjoys tracking his cars, but I thought I share my learnings for what it’s worth.  

yes tyres would certainly help especially up front, 215 tyres r a joke imo, even my MX5 is running 215 😂. I’m running 225, with 275 rears.  

[DangerousDave]

Thats what happens with no power steering to please the public u gotta put bicycle tires on the front.