TOQ's Exige Orange Exige Cup 430 Final Edition

[Toqcars]

On 08/04/2022 at 00:35, theplanner said:

So in other words, to gain its max potential one needs to drive it like a 911. Slow in fast out, and use plenty of trail braking. Few yrs ago, I went from a mid engine car to a GT3, and i understeer so badly thru every corner that I wondered at the time, why do ppl rave about GT3…lol until I learned to drive it properly to suit its inherent weight transfer characteristics. 

How long have you needed to switch from the typical mid-engine to the GT3/Exige? For sure driving style needs to be adopted... this takes time and different driving style testing. 

 

14 hours ago, DangerousDave said:

Thats what happens with no power steering to please the public u gotta put bicycle tires on the front.

Don't get this no power steering panicking. Lack of it is one of the biggest Exige advantages 😀 No problem to park it in the city at all 

[theplanner]

@Toqcars I took lessons from pro drivers on track, I suggest main thing is to master the technique of trail braking as that is essentially what you need to do to carry the weight forward while continuing to brake into the corner which will cancel out the understeer then on power early.  Once you get that right, I think you will naturally attune your senses to the weight transfer around each corner.  I also took my car on the skidpan to learn to slide it so I have full confidence to carry a power slide out of the corner if need be.  But I think about 6 months (around 4-5 track days) before I could say I thoroughly understood and felt at ease with the car.  

With steering I have to say, even I felt it was very heavy (probably due to the small steering wheel) and I have an air cool 911 without power steering.  Took me a couple of weeks to get used to how heavy it was to steer when parking...🤭

Edited April 9, 2022 by theplanner

[DangerousDave]

On 09/04/2022 at 06:21, Toqcars said:

How long have you needed to switch from the typical mid-engine to the GT3/Exige? For sure driving style needs to be adopted... this takes time and different driving style testing. 

 

Don't get this no power steering panicking. Lack of it is one of the biggest Exige advantages 😀 No problem to park it in the city at all 

See how you feel about that if they put 285's up front.

[theplanner]

16 hours ago, DangerousDave said:

See how you feel about that if they put 285's up front.

Going to need He-Man arms to steer if that was the case...LOL.

But I honestly dun understand why the steering is so heavy at low speeds, my other car with similar weight distribution and overall weight, running 245 front tyres yet it is lighter to steer at parking pace.  

[Toqcars]

On 11/04/2022 at 14:38, theplanner said:

Going to need He-Man arms to steer if that was the case...LOL.

But I honestly dun understand why the steering is so heavy at low speeds, my other car with similar weight distribution and overall weight, running 245 front tyres yet it is lighter to steer at parking pace.  

Could be due to the mechanism "gear ratio"... less wheel rotation for the same wheel angle means greater force. So I guess your other cars have greater wheel rotation angle?

@DangerousDave any experiences with the non-assisted 285 at front? I guess in that case car would also be running extreme camber, therefore lesser area touching the road when at low speed, so easier parking 😂😂😂 Just kidding... but I will put 225 at front really soon and can report changes during low speed maneuvering. 

[Toqcars]

Mesh gave up after a few months... so some small cosmetic corrections were necessary. I guess due to the shape defects (flying stones and rubber). Where the mesh was deflected, color just peeled off. Quite surprise it did, since I saw some similar mesh on a "high miles" Evora without any peeling noticed. However, its fixed for now. If doing it, just make sure you are not using color spray, since there are some quite important radiators behind. Oh and if thinking to remove the mesh before painting, think twice, because the whole front clamshell needs to be removed to remove the meshes 😂

[Martrack]

Perfect !
How did you do ? Back paint + pencil ?

[Toqcars]

56 minutes ago, Martrack said:

Perfect !
How did you do ? Back paint + pencil ?

Protection tape all around. Than a brush with a really long brushes (1.5-2 inch). Since it's high viscosity color, long brushes applies color really well all around the mesh. It was 30 minutes job. 

[DangerousDave]

Maybe using a thick paint like bed liner would last longer?

 

[Toqcars]

Did the alignment. We were unable to increase the camber at rear from the current setup, which is 1.7°. However, we were only setting the eccentric bolt. Now I am reading that we should get 2.6° in the rear with eccentric camplate/pivot bolt maxed out. So now we are exploring how to max the pivot out.

However, we also weighted the car with the driver (80 kg) and 80-90% of gas.  

So without the driver any no gas in it, it is 1092 kg. Quite nice result. However, car is totally stock with the AC, radio, additional carbon side skirts, additional rear side spoilers.

Also changed all fluids, engine oil, oil filter, transmission fluid, brake fluid... 

[Toqcars]

4th trackday with an Exige just passed. What's new? New fluids (brake, engine, gearbox), rear Trofeo R tires, new brake pads and I was driving in the race mode the whole day. Exige is now in the fast/est Porsche Cayman GT4 "category" regarding the laptimes. 

 

Cold Trofeo R is faster than the warm Cup2. Warm Trofeo R is great, but it's really really really hard to warm it up. Once hot, it's way faster. 2-3 s per 1:30 lap. 

Front brake pads are Ferodo Racing DS3.12. Rear is stock, but it looks like it would be good to upgrade rear pads as well, since there is a huge difference in the initial bite between the front and rear, therefore rear is a bit nervous at the beginning of the braking. It's not bad, but not perfect. DS3.12 is great, love it on the road, also on the track. It's a bit harder to modulate, but after 2 sessions you get the feeling for new brakes. No problem when braking before a curve, but tricky trail braking. Highly recommend for road car only as well due to initial bite/no delay. Works well when cold as well. 

Regarding the trail braking... it really fits car. You can easily rotate the car with a brake pressure, but TC doesn't like it. At least RACE mode doesn't like it. When you brake into the corner, TC panic and fixes the trajectory in a way to shake and destabilize the car like crazy. It's also true that there are different brake pads, different rubber (Cup2) and no camber at front, so TC might just not be configured for this scenario. Need to change front rubber and rear pads as well, to make car more uniform between the front and rear. It might help. 

Not sure if setting the slip angle would help. I only engaged RACE TC, but were not switching into the "slip angle" mode. Anyone knows if this mode corrects power slides only or also intervenes on front axle panic moments? It's also panicking way too much during fast double S corners, where car would slip through the corners just nicely... but it panic and shakes the whole car.

Oh and the most important stuff is... now we know why there is an OEM black sticker before rear wheels:

[Evotion]

Great reading this thread!  Thanks @Toqcars !

Super car. I assume you still have it and looking forward to a summer of fun.

Ooh, I would love one. 

[Toqcars]

Thanks @Evotion Want to write my experiences with it since user experiences, reviews and tests are quite rare for the Exige or Lotus in general 🙂

Just got a Reduced Bump Steer Kit by Elise Parts. It also allows higher camber setting without changing uprights or milling them. Looks great, hope it works as well 😄 They (Elise Parts)  are also very responsive. This is the part:

https://www.eliseparts.com/shop/steering-br-suspension-1/v6-exige-reduced-bump-steer-kit-1/

 

 

[Martrack]

We'll need some photos of the modified areas before dismounting (as original), and once the new parts mounted, to see the difference 🙂

So this is for front wheels as per my understanding, any solution for rear wheels ?

Edited April 23, 2022 by Martrack

[Martrack]

On 21/04/2022 at 18:57, Toqcars said:

Not sure if setting the slip angle would help. I only engaged RACE TC, but were not switching into the "slip angle" mode. Anyone knows if this mode corrects power slides only or also intervenes on front axle panic moments?

Slip angle knob only works when ESP is off.
It sets the max slip percentage, until fully off (no more control / correction).
As per my understanding (so would need to be confirmed...), ESP is off, so you're the only one with your front axle.

[Exx]

The knob is only for TC

I think you maybe missunderstand esp and tc because i can t see why tc would destabilize the car when trail braking

[Toqcars]

23 minutes ago, Martrack said:

We'll need some photos of the modified areas before dismounting (as original), and once the new parts mounted, to see the difference 🙂

So this is for front wheels as per my understanding, any solution for rear wheels ?

Yes, it's for the front axle. Managed to get 1.5° of camber at front (1°30') with the stock parts. We should be able to get approx 2.5° of camber at the rear with the stock parts, but it's tricky. By rotating the eccentric bolt I only get 1.7°. Eccentric bolt in combination with a pivot should somehow be moved outwards, but me and my alignment shop are not sure hot to do it (without relocating the plate. 🙂

 

5 minutes ago, Exx said:

The knob is only for TC

I think you maybe missunderstand esp and tc because i can t see why tc would destabilize the car when trail braking

That's a good point. So when in RACE mode and holding the race button for a few seconds, dash shows TC slip angle. So that would mean that the ESP is fully off in this mode (where it takes into account slip angle knob)? Only intervention TC would do is limited engine power to prevent power slide (angle of power slide is depended on a knob)? So no funny business with a brakes? That would be a perfect combo, because I am still afraid of Exige torque, i.e. massive power slides on slippery curves, but don't like ESP intervention.

That would answer my "forever" question to dealers, service providers, Lotus fans... difference between the RACE and "knob mode in 1% slip angle setting" is ESP. When in "knob mode / cup mode", only TC is intervening 😀 

[Exx]

 

[Toqcars]

@Exx it's a great article. Read it multiple times. Really thumbs up for the creator. But it needs an update for the "CUP mode" 🙂 

 

You can see the ESP intervention in the RACE mode on the following video. Quite short, not a great example, but just to get a feeling what I am talking about when relating to the front axle shaking:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/oz0d0gywtdyiulp/double S intervention.mp4?dl=0

 

[Exx]

 Motorsport-derived variable traction control linked directly to the ECU helps maximise traction on corner exit by managing the giant surge of torque. It's controlled via a six-position rotary switch located on the steering column. Only active with the ESP stability control switched off, the five pre-set traction levels are displayed on the instrument cluster.

 

 

I do not have a Cup but it should be : the lowest is the number, the more TC you have and in the sixth and last position no TC at all

Edited April 23, 2022 by Exx

[Toqcars]

Knob is in %, but not sure % of what. % of 90°? 😂

So it's the TC for the cornet exit only. Exactly what is needed for the fast laps and trail braking. Just perfect 👍

[theplanner]

race mode still uses the rear brakes to limit the slip...

I think the slip % is the angle of slip before the rear brakes reel the situation in... 

[Toqcars]

Been offline for a while, since there was not a lot of news on a Lotus. Waiting for the rear upper arms to get more camber at the rear... to stop destroying semi-slicks. But arms just arrived. Next week I am putting them on an Exige together with a front bump steer kit (to get more camber as well) any new AO52 semis.

 

However, I did some nice roadtrips and few hill climbs with it. I can report that the Pirelli Trofeo R is not suitable for hill climbs since it needs half of a track to warm up. Burnouts before start helps, but not fully (also no help for front end). So better use Cup2. Haven't noticed lack of camber like I did on a track. But hill climb race is uphill, so quite different. Here is a short onboard  youtube video of the hill climb drive:

 

 

[Paul_D]

That hill climb looks 50% fun, 50% scary! 
 

 

[Martrack]

44 minutes ago, Toqcars said:

Next week I am putting them on an Exige together with a front bump steer kit (to get more camber as well) any new AO52 semis.

Good news 👍
Don't forget before / after photos while mounting 
Will be really interesting !

Many thanks !

Great video, nice climb, good job !