Canvassing Interest in group buy for Esprit V8 CNC billet rear uprights (hub carriers)

[Project M71]

 

I now have the CAD file from Novorota, the company that was developing a CNC billet replacement for the Esprit V8 rear uprights...

https://fb.watch/b7_C8hGMNY/

Project M71 will use a pair of these but I'm also canvassing Interest in group buy - I will be contacting engineering companies for price estimates

So let me know if you are interested

 

Many Thanks to Ignas for providing the CAD data! 👍 His original thread: 

 

[mike_sekinger]

1. Mike Sekinger

[Greg D]

2. Greg Dollimore 

[David H]

Hi, are you able to share the cad file and I'll see if I can get some quotes for the group too. Thanks David

[Project M71]

The second round of quotes are being prepared in order to bring costs down:

Please note these responses sent to all those quoting:

1.       When do you need an offer for? When must the parts arrive(Deadline)?
** No specific deadline but sensible delivery time

2.       Will this be a one off order or long term? ( for our tooling up purposes )
** This would be an on-going order with a long lifetime, its a classic car part which the manufacturer no longer supplies and there are virtually no second hand parts available - there is a large car club community that are looking for a replacement

3.       Please could you supply a current price per unit that we must beat?
** Sub £800 per unit - they would be ordered as a left and right hand pair, so sub £1600 total

4.       Anything extra you’d like to highlight or I should know?
** Your company can be advertised on the car club forum and other websites without charge, if you can match the requirements

[Project M71]

The first of the second round of quotes look much more promising (some of the original quotes were over £2,500 for a single unit) - the quote below for 10 off (5 pairs) is now at a single unit price of 607.45 Euros ($670.55, £511.40) 

That sounds very, very good, for billet units that are many times stronger than the originals

I am now obtaining CAD software to produce the other handed version and I will get final quotes for muliples of pairs, left and right uprights

*** We then need at least 5 names of those intersted in a pair - I think we are near that with those here and others on social media - I will compile a full list ***

 

[mike_sekinger]

1. Mike Sekinger

2. Greg Dollimore

3.

[Project M71]

1. Mike Sekinger

2. Greg Dollimore

3. Project M71

4. Harris David (facebook) - David H above maybe?

5. Denis Lavigne (facebook) - "depending on price"

 

So, I guess were pretty much there if everyone wants a left and right hand pair (why would you not?) 

On to the (CAD)CAM work on the other handed unit and checking of dimensions... 

[mike_sekinger]

@cweeden did you ever get around to fitting the prototype uprights supplied by Novorota?  

[fjmuurling]

Just curious, (maybe @mike_sekinger knows) but are these dimensionwise the same as for a 1990 SE. (I know there are some extra holes for the ABS sensors and the webbing is a bit "wider" to accomodate the hole for the handbrake cable.

More numbers means price reduction? Where is the sweet spot? 

[Greg D]

Yes, Left and Right for me. And just confirming my interest. Let me know where to from here!

[cweeden]

14 hours ago, mike_sekinger said:

@cweeden did you ever get around to fitting the prototype uprights supplied by Novorota?  

I have been plagued by delays (not related to the hub carriers) so they are not fitted at the moment but I have trial fitted them, which led to a couple of discoveries. We'd missed the ABS sensor hole and fixing bolt somehow, so I have had that machined. The other aspect that wasn't quite right was the diameter of the hole for the sliding bush in the lower mount, it has been machined a little larger than stock and so I've had to resort to using some shim steel to take up the slack. I'm pretty sure Ignas has corrected the model for both of these since we discovered them and we have the correct dimensions for everything now since Sacha shared the original drawings so easy enough to check. Unfortunately Ignas lost patience with me and we've had a falling out which is a shame but I would be very confident his model is good and as long as the machine shop does a proper job these will be very good. I can't remember the grade of alloy we went for though, I think it was 6061 but here is the advice from @CHANGES 6061 is where most start for this sort of application, preferably in T6 format .. (heat tempered) for maximum strength (6061-T6) You can also get it in a stress relieved form which has a suffix of 51 (6061-T651).

14 hours ago, fjmuurling said:

Just curious, (maybe @mike_sekinger knows) but are these dimensionwise the same as for a 1990 SE. (I know there are some extra holes for the ABS sensors and the webbing is a bit "wider" to accomodate the hole for the handbrake cable.

More numbers means price reduction? Where is the sweet spot? 

I would imagine the sweet spot has been hit more or less, that pricing is very good indeed.

@Project M71 are you planning on any surface treatment to prevent corrosion? (just curious), also where are you based?

[sailorbob]

Will the uprights be 6061-T6? If they are just the annealed 6061 grade then they may be quite a bit less strong than the OE uprights if they are cast in something like LM25TF alloy.

[mike_sekinger]

If the CAD model verification is done, it would be reall good to be able to move forward to fabrication.

[Project M71]

 

OK All.. I've been in conversation with Ignas and he is checking the revisions for the points below now and he is going to post the verified files for both sides on the Forum at the weekend

1) larger lower mounting diameter

2) ABS sensor and tapping

The ABS sensor tapping may need to be added but he will do that

I'm not sure if my efforts in learning CAD were warranted/worthwhile but if we get files for both handed parts, with the corrections, all ready for CNC and our group buy works out, I guess in some way they were.

 

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by Project M71

[Project M71]

Yes they should made in 6061-T6 - I'll ask for requote when Ignas posts the files but I guess people may have their favourite machining companies?

[Project M71]

On 05/04/2022 at 08:34, cweeden said:

I have been plagued by delays (not related to the hub carriers) so they are not fitted at the moment but I have trial fitted them, which led to a couple of discoveries. We'd missed the ABS sensor hole and fixing bolt somehow, so I have had that machined. The other aspect that wasn't quite right was the diameter of the hole for the sliding bush in the lower mount, it has been machined a little larger than stock and so I've had to resort to using some shim steel to take up the slack. I'm pretty sure Ignas has corrected the model for both of these since we discovered them and we have the correct dimensions for everything now since Sacha shared the original drawings so easy enough to check. Unfortunately Ignas lost patience with me and we've had a falling out which is a shame but I would be very confident his model is good and as long as the machine shop does a proper job these will be very good. I can't remember the grade of alloy we went for though, I think it was 6061 but here is the advice from @CHANGES 6061 is where most start for this sort of application, preferably in T6 format .. (heat tempered) for maximum strength (6061-T6) You can also get it in a stress relieved form which has a suffix of 51 (6061-T651).

I would imagine the sweet spot has been hit more or less, that pricing is very good indeed.

@Project M71 are you planning on any surface treatment to prevent corrosion? (just curious), also where are you based?

Based in Bucks, near West London

 

[Project M71]

On 04/04/2022 at 18:16, fjmuurling said:

Just curious, (maybe @mike_sekinger knows) but are these dimensionwise the same as for a 1990 SE. (I know there are some extra holes for the ABS sensors and the webbing is a bit "wider" to accomodate the hole for the handbrake cable.

More numbers means price reduction? Where is the sweet spot? 

 

I'll let Mike comment/confirm, as I only concentrate on the Turbo Esprit and V8, but I don't see any changes in the model changes after the Commonisation of 'Eagle Chassis': May '89

Here: http://www.projectm71.com/changes.htm

The ABS sensor holes are there in the CAD model and the webbing is as on the V8

 

[Project M71]

Just commented this on social media but I thought I would add here...

Here is a Play List for those interested in the process to part machining, once CAD is complete... CAM (Computer Aided Manufacturing), tool selection & tool paths, NC/G Code (on which the Millling machines/lathes directly operate) and then the actual machining https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2UIEWwqJXrORlKXRQjQHY4ESaQNZdQi3

This process is all part of the setup costs that the estimates for the uprights include - and why costs reduce with greater part numbers, as the CAM only has to be done once

 

 

Edited April 8, 2022 by Project M71

[Project M71]

Ignas has posted the ver 1.4 CAD files now and an excellent technical drawing, which some of the suppliers were asking for - these have the details on the tappings for the hub bolts.

I have a look in CAD later and get a new quote

 

[mike_sekinger]

1. Mike Sekinger  (x2 sets)   one for Andrä Schrörs

2. Greg Dollimore

3. Project M71

4. Harris David (facebook) - David H above maybe?

5. Denis Lavigne (facebook) - "depending on price"

[Project M71]

I've put the latest Novorota files here for safekeeping - and there's a link to the earlier Novorota files and all my CAD work

http://www.projectm71.com/RearUprights.html?fbclid=IwAR2T-TiNfsgmAbDwvV4KGIeZ-a83C3X8wZBInqhSJe0ttG61WwIRR4O4S5A

 

[sailorbob]

Thanks for posting the files.

One item stands out, the tap drill size for the bearing mounting M7 x 1.0 mm thread is shown as 6.1 mm but for aluminium the general rule is to subtract the pitch from the diameter of the thread, i.e. it should be a 6.0 mm hole.

[mike_sekinger]

Thanks Derek.

Now that we have people looking at the CAD files, there are a number of things popping-up that are either not correct/or optimal.

It is likely that the model will need a clean-up and correction to address those things prior to any manufacturing.

Some work is starting along those lines, so updates to follow.

[sailorbob]

Yes, when comparing the CAD file to a hub carrier there are unfortunately some concerning discrepancies. Rather than clutter this thread with items spotted is there an alternative way to compile and coordinate this?