Is electric really the answer?

[Barrykearley]

1 minute ago, C8RKH said:

Final point is, buy a current EV to save on running costs. But please do not try to justify on current eco grounds as it just does not wash.

You simply can’t buy new mass produced consumerist goods on eco grounds full stop. The bulk of all emissions is on manufacturing 

[C8RKH]

Especially when you factor in transportation/shippage from the other side of the world. There is a very strong market driver for local production, using local resources.

And of course, the people who buy an EV to be eco friendly are the same people who are happy to have avocados and quinoa shipped half way round the world at an enormous environmental coast whilst also taking a locally cheap and sustainable food source from the local people that puts them way under the poverty line.  Sheer hypocrisy usually as in the West we choose the stats and figures to justify our excesses EVEN WHEN we claim to be nice and eco friendly.

[Barrykearley]

5 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

And of course, the people who buy an EV to be eco friendly are the same people who are happy to have avocados and quinoa shipped half way round the world at an enormous environmental coast

I bought our ev because it’s overall cost of ownership and comfort is superb value. I do my absolutely very best to personally offset this by drinking Herefordshire cider and trying to eat as many of those pesky polluting cows as possible

[C8RKH]

The irony for me is that I will probably get an EV this summer ONLY because the company has brought in a salary sacrifice scheme and from April pure EV's are BIK rated as zero. So I'll swap the wife's car for an EV from the company. At least I won't have to drive the damn thing....

 

[Barrykearley]

I knew it @C8RKH- looking forwards to reading your new thread “ I’m a vegan and loving it”

[C8RKH]

That will never happen as if I buy an EV it will be specc'ed with leather. Lot's of leather. And all sorts of other animal bits (like a rabbits foot to ward of the evil caused by buying an EV etc).

I might be getting rid of my lovely Fire Red Evora 410 Sport though Barry. Would look nice next to your NA!

[dave excell]

I am off to watch the Historic Monaco GP in May. My Skoda diesel will do it in a day with one 10 minute stop to tank up. can someone supply me with an EV which will do the same. My Skoda cost £2,500. 

 

[Toeside]

A tongue in cheek view of the Tesla 😉

 

[MPx]

14 hours ago, C8RKH said:

However talking and listening you got some real insights:

Tesla S over the air, no choice but to take it, software upgrades were reducing the performance and range of their batteries. Apparently this was to protect them longer term.

Several owners had been promised new batteries under warranty but months later still nothing.

Several owners were concerned re battery replacement costs having received quotes from Tesla.

Quite a few had issues with batteries over heating when cars used hard.

Many comments about charging being more of a pain as Tesla chargepoint volumes not keeping up with demand from new car owners.

Reports of Tesla chargers (public ones) not always in service or not charging at highest speed levels.

The issue with all Lithium batteries and high cycle frequencies due to top up charges is well documented and is a chemical issue.

So most of my information was gleaned from enthusiastic owner drivers, not manufacturers etc.

Hope this helps to clarify.

Final point is, buy a current EV to save on running costs. But please do not try to justify on current eco grounds as it just does not wash.

Fascinating thanks Andy....lots of good reasons there for me to avoid a Model S and stick with RangeRover - phew!  However there's lots there about charging.  The Tesla charging infrastructure is held up in EV circles as exemplary - and certainly beats the madness of the separate and uncoordinated networks of different standards that the rest of us in the EV community have to put up with. I have used various public chargers just to see if I could and it is very much hit and miss if its going to be available and work when you get somewhere.  Nowhere near a practical proposition for the non-warriors at the moment. But for our use of the i3 we've never yet HAD to get a charge away from home, so none of those points impact...  

I think the Lithium batteries chemical issue you talk about has also been marginalised by BMW (and some others) in their charging software.  The usable capacity is displayed on the dash going from 100% to 0%, but that isn't really what the battery sees.  By only displaying from (I'm guessing) 10% to 90% in absolute terms much of the bad stuff is avoided - it never fully Discharges and similarly isn't "topped up".  Also the charge rate drops dramatically when over 80% full (indicated) and loads of time then put into "cell balancing".  Again aimed at battery longevity.  As is a relatively slow max charge rate of 11kW.     Clearly building these margins into the battery charge cycle will give less headline "range" and slower charge times.  These are very bad points in terms of increasing the number of people the car will suit...but for those of us that charge slowly overnight on Economy 7 it simply doesn't impact.   Certainly from all I've read in the i3 community such an approach seems to be paying dividends in terms of battery health.   And the car being online to BMW also has some upsides.  I got a notice of a charging cable recall on screen when driving to get the fish and chips tonight - all very down with the kids..

Nothing about my car ownership is about saving on running costs or being Eco.  I like having whatever car I want which I think is the right car for what I want to do.  The i3 replaced a Jimny we enjoyed for 10 years.  The i3 is fun to drive (yes really! - but that's in context, within 50 miles of home with little motorway use and mostly round trips to the nearest town), narrow for the lanes, good for the two of us as we have the back seats folded which gives a large load area (shops and dump).   It was ridiculously expensive to buy compared with other similar sized hatchbacks, but has been (so far) ridiculously cheap to run.   I reckon once you've got used to one pedal driving your wife's EV you'll find yourself borrowing it more often than you'll admit to...

[KAS-118]

Kia days 1/3rd of it sales in the UK will be electric in 2020 https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news

[C8RKH]

7 hours ago, KAS-118 said:

Kia days 1/3rd of it sales in the UK will be electric in 2020 https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news

A third of not very many,  is er, not very much lol... 97,000 sales last year so that will be 33,000 electric in 2020.

Total projected UK EV sales in 2020 is 131,000 against total new cars sold of c2.4m.  It's a bit like Lotus car volumes, a small real number increase represents a headline % sales growth and all people see are the headline % figures. 

Reading all the hyperbole you'd think every car sold was an EV lol...

[Vanya]

We can't save the world using the same tools which got us here in the first place. 

I have a feeling that EV will suddenly go the way of Diesel faster than you can say Wolfsburg once the true impact of EV:s and their load on the power grid (upon mass adoption) reaches the public conscience. Suddenly hydrogen (produced renewably) will seem like a much more attractive prospect. 

I often find myself trying to justify a Model 3 long range, but then I remember that a) I can keep driving and maintaining my '97 XK8 so that new crap doesn't need to be produced (I'd rather look after old things which are well built anyway), b) I'll only lose massive amounts of money on a modern car due to depreciation and c) I'm not ACTUALLY saving the environment because of the emissions that have already been created due to manufacture. But such is the allure of the Tesla brand (and the pat on the back you feel for going EV, because that's what the zeitgeist demands). There are strong psychological marketing forces in play which need to be actively fended off.

On the subject of Tesla however:

https://jalopnik.com/tesla-remotely-removes-autopilot-features-from-customer-1841472617

[KAS-118]

2 hours ago, C8RKH said:

A third of not very many,  is er, not very much lol... 97,000 sales last year so that will be 33,000 electric in 2020.

Total projected UK EV sales in 2020 is 131,000 against total new cars sold of c2.4m.  It's a bit like Lotus car volumes, a small real number increase represents a headline % sales growth and all people see are the headline % figures. 

Reading all the hyperbole you'd think every car sold was an EV lol...

Well clearly selling 1/3rd isn't the same as 'Every Car' so I'm not clear why someone would think that!?

However, selling 1/3rd is a significant growth - and although its only the first month, the SMMT Figures identify a 203.9% increase in Battery Electric Vehicles. Whilst, so far Petrol and Diesel retain 81.3% of vehicles sold - that is significantly down on the 91.7% the year before. 

Furthermore, Kia sales are insignificant - for Jan 2020 they were the 9th best selling brand in the UK. 

The changes in Tax legislation, IMHO, will only encourage the increase in the market share of EV's 

[KAS-118]

1 hour ago, KAS-118 said:

Well clearly selling 1/3rd isn't the same as 'Every Car' so I'm not clear why someone would think that!?

However, selling 1/3rd is a significant growth - and although its only the first month, the SMMT Figures identify a 203.9% increase in Battery Electric Vehicles. Whilst, so far Petrol and Diesel retain 81.3% of vehicles sold - that is significantly down on the 91.7% the year before. 

Furthermore, Kia sales are insignificant - for Jan 2020 they were the 9th best selling brand in the UK. 

The changes in Tax legislation, IMHO, will only encourage the increase in the market share of EV's 

"...aren't insignificant..." 😳

[C8RKH]

And that is the point I am making re the stats @KAS-118 . 203.9% sounds fantastic but let's put it into real perspective using SMMT figures shall we.  0.8% total market share for BEV's versus 63% for petrol. Even with a 203.9% increase in sales on Jan 2019 that is still only 4054 BEV's sold versus 121,441 for Petrol and Diesel.

So by my reckoning Petrol and Diesel are outselling BEV's by almost 33 to 1 despite a significant year on year fall for petrol and diesel and this fall is not reflected in BEV's taking up the slack, that merely shows that new cars sales are significant down on the previous year in general (total petrol and diesel sales decline of c26,000 versus BEV growth in volume of c3,000). Now given the constant hype in the press re BEV's that's hardly impressive is it and even at those wonderful growth rates it is going to take some time for BEV's to catch-up and surpass petrol and diesel isn't it?

Stats are wonderful, in isolation you can even make Trump out to be the best President ever or Corbyn the most successful ever leader of the Labour party (depending on the stats you choose). However, reality, in the round is always a little different.

BEV's will be dead by 2030, fuel cells will replace them as we see the looming disaster with lithium batteries.

 

[Barrykearley]

4 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

Stats are wonderful, in isolation you can even make Trump out to be the best President ever or Corbyn thge most successful ever leader of the Labour party (depending on the stats you choose). However, reality, in the round is always a little different.

You can even claim the majority of folks wished to remain 🇪🇺

[RobinB5]

A Garrett electrolytic carburetor would solve all these problems. Shame it's theoretically impossible.

[KAS-118]

12 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

And that is the point I am making re the stats @KAS-118 . 203.9% sounds fantastic but let's put it into real perspective using SMMT figures shall we.  0.8% total market share for BEV's versus 63% for petrol. Even with a 203.9% increase in sales on Jan 2019 that is still only 4054 BEV's sold versus 121,441 for Petrol and Diesel.

So by my reckoning Petrol and Diesel are outselling BEV's by almost 33 to 1 despite a significant year on year fall for petrol and diesel and this fall is not reflected in BEV's taking up the slack, that merely shows that new cars sales are significant down on the previous year in general (total petrol and diesel sales decline of c26,000 versus BEV growth in volume of c3,000). Now given the constant hype in the press re BEV's that's hardly impressive is it and even at those wonderful growth rates it is going to take some time for BEV's to catch-up and surpass petrol and diesel isn't it?

Stats are wonderful, in isolation you can even make Trump out to be the best President ever or Corbyn the most successful ever leader of the Labour party (depending on the stats you choose). However, reality, in the round is always a little different.

BEV's will be dead by 2030, fuel cells will replace them as we see the looming disaster with lithium batteries.

 

Of course the % aren’t everything - hence why I identified the total sale of Non-electric v Electric.

However, we’ve seen in the UK people signing up to a year waiting list for the electric Niro (they’ve now significantly upped the production on that) and if Kia are right, and 1/3rd of their cars sold in 2020 are electric - then that will be 30-35k added onto those figures from them alone. 

I also note that Tesla don’t feature separately in the SMMT figures - not sure why - but I expect they will do soon.
 

The facts are that BEV’s are just at the start of their ‘learning curve’ . Graphene and Solid State  batteries are supposed to be coming out shortly, the Evija is supposed to be capable of receiving 80% charge in 12 minutes - so no I don’t see they’re going to disappear by 2030.

i actually think that people will begin to see the advantage of being able to keep their cars fully charged over night - and not having to go out their way to fill up - and the much reduced maintenance charges. Furthermore, my trip in a Tesla 3 last week (a taxi in Sweden) demonstrated how much more room you can get with not having to have a petrol engine (and its required cooling) and gear box.

I agree with you that maybe hydrogen fuel cells offer an alternative, the way that diesel does to petrol - but that isn’t as convenient, has a large volume and hence storage and transportation issues - and remember, water vapour is (in some people’s opinion) one of the worst greenhouse gases. Furthermore, the trend seems to be that petrol stations are closing down - if that continues then it makes filling up with hydrogen difficult - and therefore you still have ‘range anxiety’.

BV’s  may not be perfect - but then what is.? But frankly I very rarely do any journey where I would do over 250 miles, and when I do I usually stop for 30-60 mins and could charge up.

I appreciate there are some people who drive long distances in one go - but I can’t but help think that the range concern is a bit of a false anxiety for the vast majority of the people for the vast majority of the time. 

[Barrykearley]

We placed a deposit on the Hyundai Kona before the Niro was even released - a nine month waiting list - we got it delivered after about 5 months.

could have flipped it and made at least £5k at point of delivery. The depreciation after nearly a year of ownership is probably nil at the current point in time.

if you’ve never driven an ev - then frankly you simply are not placed to make a judgement on them

[C8RKH]

7 minutes ago, KAS-118 said:

the Evija is supposed to be capable of receiving 80% charge in 12 minutes

Do you understand BEV's and electricity or are you just chucking random stuff out?  If so, do you have any idea of the electric charge/current that will be required to fully charge an Evija in 12 minutes? 

Hydrogen high volume and not convenient - sorry, but that's nonsense - the average hydrogen storage tank for a car to travel roughtly 350-450 miles when full are 6kg in weight and they can be moulded into convenient shapes - the hydrogen gas is stored under pressure. It's easy to transport and you can reuse the current natural gas pipelines to reduce the infrastructure investment required. I have no idea where you get the idea that water vapour is a major greenhouse gas. Please enlighten me. I also assume you do not ever have tea or coffee, never steam your vegetables to cook them, nor ever have a hot bath or a hot shower in that case?

Did you know that Hydrogen is currently being piped in to Peterhead and Aberdeen and used to power local buses? Or that hydrogen is being injected into the national gas network to provide a more efficient and environmentally efficient "burn"?  Many garages already have LPG pumps and storage facilities and these can be easily re-purposed for Hydrogen.

The North Sea will see it's next energy boom using re-purposed oil platforms, connected to offshore windfarms, to produce green Hydrogen on a massive scale. Why would you not use 100% environmentally friendly Hydrogen for fuel cells instead of Lithium based electric cells that currently cannot be recycled and cause a huge environmental impact when the lithium and cobalt is mined?

Graphene is years away from commercial use. As for Petrol stations. Why do you think Shell bought First Utility? They are developing their consumer energy strategy that ties in the home, garages and personal transportation.

We could go on for hours talking about all of this.

I've worked in the utilities and energy sector for 24 years. I fully accept and believe we need to change to improve our futures and those for our children, however, sometimes discussions around BEV's just feels like it is blind leading the blind and people just swallow whole the buzz, throw out isolated random stats and hype to justify why it is all so good and wonderful and to shut naysayers down.  Let's see if Kia sells what it thinks it will by the end of the year. Saying your going to sell, and actually selling, or two very differerent things.

@Barrykearley - I've driven BEV's. I've had several as hire cars. I can see how and why they are attractive and I can see how and why people would buy one. They are just not for me and for the use I make of a car. The wife might get one, and that's up to her. Andy yes, I'll drive it when I need to.  But, it will not be my first choice of transport.

[KAS-118]

14 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

Do you understand BEV's and electricity or are you just chucking random stuff out?  If so, do you have any idea of the electric charge/current that will be required to fully charge an Evija in 12 minutes? 

 

That figure is given by Lotus - https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/16/20696638/lotus-evija-hypercar-specs-price-photos. From what I've seen/read from you - `I think they're the ones more likely to be correct.

15 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

Hydrogen high volume and not convenient - sorry, but that's nonsense - the average hydrogen storage tank for a car to travel roughtly 350-450 miles when full are 6kg in weight and they can be moulded into convenient shapes - the hydrogen gas is stored under pressure. It's easy to transport and you can reuse the current natural gas pipelines to reduce the infrastructure investment required. I have no idea where you get the idea that water vapour is a major greenhouse gas. Please enlighten me. I also assume you do not ever have tea or coffee, never steam your vegetables to cook them, nor ever have a hot bath or a hot shower in that case?

Did you know that Hydrogen is currently being piped in to Peterhead and Aberdeen and used to power local buses? Or that hydrogen is being injected into the national gas network to provide a more efficient and environmentally efficient "burn"?  Many garages already have LPG pumps and storage facilities and these can be easily re-purposed for Hydrogen.

 

As to 'my nonsense' https://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/green-science/pros-and-cons-of-hydrogen-energy.htm

And here about water vapour https://www.acs.org/content/acs/en/climatescience/climatesciencenarratives/its-water-vapor-not-the-co2.html and here https://skepticalscience.com/water-vapor-greenhouse-gas.htm

22 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

Graphene is years away from commercial use. As for Petrol stations. Why do you think Shell bought First Utility? They are developing their consumer energy strategy that ties in the home, garages and personal transportation.

Again, big fat Zero out of 10....

https://9to5google.com/2019/08/14/samsung-graphene-batteries-report/

24 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

Do you understand BEV's and electricity or are you just chucking random stuff out? 

I've worked in the utilities and energy sector for 24 years. I fully accept and believe we need to change to improve our futures and those for our children, however, sometimes discussions around BEV's just feels like it is blind leading the blind and people just swallow whole the buzz, throw out isolated random stats and hype to justify why it is all so good and wonderful and to shut naysayers down.  Let's see if Kia sells what it thinks it will by the end of the year. Saying your going to sell, and actually selling, or two very differerent things.

 

Yeah, one of us is "chucking this stuff out" - and his knowledge doesn''t  appear to have moved on for 24 years 🙄

[C8RKH]

There is a massive difference between powering a smart phone and powering a car. Oh and the heading says "Samsung HOPES to use graphene as early as next year. Not now. And not at the size and scale you need for a car. As I said that is years away. HArdly zero out of ten. One of us in the real world, the other is in fantasy land.

As for the the Evija - the question I asked you was do you know how much power you would need? Not if it was correct or not. You're not actually reading what I have written! If you really did understand you would have picked up from the your link that to charge the Evija in 12 minutes (though not sure where you get that from as the Lotus link says 18 minutes for 0-80% not 100% power) takes a 350kW power source and an 800KW power source to do it in 9 minutes.

To put that in perspective the average the average UK household uses around 360kw in a whole month and you think that your normal electricity connection, and the local substation etc can handle that in 18 minutes? Which is why I asked if you actually knew what size of pipe you needed.

You really don;t have a clue and obviously just believe what you read.

I'll leave you to it. I'm off to watch the muppets. They have more of a clue.

 

 

[KAS-118]

1 hour ago, C8RKH said:

Graphene is years away from COMMERCIAL use. As for Petrol stations. Why do you think Shell bought First Utility? They are developing their consumer energy strategy that ties in the home, garages and personal transportation.

 

32 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

There is a massive difference between powering a smart phone and powering a car. Oh and the heading says "Samsung HOPES to use graphene as early as next year. Not now. And not at the size and scale you need for a car. As I said that is years away. HArdly zero out of ten. One of us in the real world, the other is in fantasy land

 

33 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

You're not actually reading what I have written!

For you information - using a Graphene Battery in a phone IS commercial use - you don't know what you say.

If they can use them in phones then guess what - they won't be far away from powering other devices - just as Lithium did. 🙄

41 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

As for the the Evija - the question I asked you was do you know how much power you would need? Not if it was correct or not. You're not actually reading what I have written! If you really did understand you would have picked up from the your link that to charge the Evija in 12 minutes (though not sure where you get that from as the Lotus link says 18 minutes for 0-80% not 100% power) takes a 350kW power source and an 800KW power source to do it in 9 minutes.

That's right - it was in the link I directed you to. You should be sure where the 12 minutes came from - as that too was in the link I directed you to. 🙄🙄

53 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

To put that in perspective the average the average UK household uses around 360kw in a whole month and you think that your normal electricity connection, and the local substation etc can handle that in 18 minutes? Which is why I asked if you actually knew what size of pipe you needed.

The V3 Superrcahegirs are rated at 250Kw - and no you didn't ask "...what size pipe you needed" - you asked what type of connection you needed - so again you can't even quote yourself correctly. The answer, for the Evija - being the one that Lotus has designed to be used 🙄🙄🙄

58 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

You really don;t have a clue and obviously just believe what you read.

No, I read around matters - and different opinions - and when I state something I'm able to give authority for that point of view - you should try it one day. 🙄🙄🙄🙄

Clearly,. if I just believed what I read I would believe the garbage that you spout out of your bottom - which as you're a tad 'slow' I'll clarify for you now I don't at all. 

1 hour ago, C8RKH said:

I'll leave you to it. I'm off to watch the muppets. They have more of a clue.

Wow I'm surprised, that's Waaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyy above your level - but its good to see you're pushing the boundaries and going out your comfort zone.

Close the door behind you.....🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

[C8RKH]

54 minutes ago, KAS-118 said:

 

 

For you information - using a Graphene Battery in a phone IS commercial use - you don't know what you say.

If they can use them in phones then guess what - they won't be far away from powering other devices - just as Lithium did. 🙄

That's right - it was in the link I directed you to. You should be sure where the 12 minutes came from - as that too was in the link I directed you to. 🙄🙄

The V3 Superrcahegirs are rated at 250Kw - and no you didn't ask "...what size pipe you needed" - you asked what type of connection you needed - so again you can't even quote yourself correctly. The answer, for the Evija - being the one that Lotus has designed to be used 🙄🙄🙄

No, I read around matters - and different opinions - and when I state something I'm able to give authority for that point of view - you should try it one day. 🙄🙄🙄🙄

Clearly,. if I just believed what I read I would believe the garbage that you spout out of your bottom - which as you're a tad 'slow' I'll clarify for you now I don't at all. 

Wow I'm surprised, that's Waaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyy above your level - but its good to see you're pushing the boundaries and going out your comfort zone.

Close the door behind you.....🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

Oh my. You really do not get it do you. You also missed the bit about YOUR link saying that Samsung HOPE to use Graphene in future phones. Remind me, which phone can you buy right now that is powered by a Graphene battery? - er, to quote you, "you don't know what your saying" and if it ain't currently commercially availabel then it ain't commercial yet. What am I missing?

Scaling up technology like batteries from a phone (not yet in commercial use widescale) to a car is not easy. Graphene is at the very edge of commercial technology just now and still needs considerable R&D spend, testing and prototyping before it gets anywhere near powering something as large as a car. Tell me what car you can buy right now that has a graphene battery at scale? If you can't, then stop the dope smoking, saying I am behind the times, and trying to claim that it is a commercial product for cars now, or will be anytime very soon..

Re the Evija, you really are showing yourself up now.  Let me make it simple for you.

The average UK home has a 60-100 AMP supply fuse. So the maximum power you can draw from your electricity to your home is "LIMITED". It is not, if I put something bigger on it then it will work. For instance, the Evija needs 350kw to charge the battery in 18 minutes. The maximum you can draw from  your house is 240v * 60a or 100a depending on the size of fuse that your household connection has (typically they are either 60a or 100a). So, the maximum most people can have available is usually around 14.4kw to 24kw.

Please explain how you are going to get 350kw - 800kw for your super duper Evija chargers? Indeed, how are you going to get a V3 Supercharger to run at its full 250kw speed?

There is a reason that current EV chargers, installed in peoples homes, not needing a major electrical upgrade, are running at around the 3kw to 10kw rating. For instance the latest Nissan Leaf uses 7kw and on a modest 40kw battery that's a charging time of 7.5 hours (full charge depending on battery state, temperature, etc) for an estimated 170 miles. If you go for the larger capacity 62kw battery then the full battery charge is 11.5hours for an estimated 240 miles.

Even the mighty Tesla states that currently in the UK most homes will allow a maximum charging rate of 7.4kw. The maximum power output from the Tesla Wall connector is 22kw, but do not forget, the bottleneck is the supply to your home so for 90% of customers it will never get beyond 7-14kw.

These are facts. Not fiction. Argue away. Please give your authoritative view that contests the facts. I'm dying to hear it, literally, as my sides are splitting and my guts are spewing out...

By the way, the fuses in your home govern the total load - so those figures quoted are the maximum IF you are not using anything else in the house (e.g. say a 40amp shower which would take 240@40=9.6kw from your maximum supply). But of course you already knew that as you read around everything to get an authoritative view.

Next. Think what would happen if everyone in your street, or village, or postcode installed these superduperchargers and they all decided to charge their cars at the same time? I'll give you a hint, the local substation would blow a fuse and cut out and you'd all be sat in the dark for a while. And no, the network upgrade to accommodate you all would not happen quickly and would cost an arm, three legs, a liver and your kidneys etc...

Of course, you could go and submit a connection request to your local DNO for a much larger supply phase, including a three phase supply etc. Just make sure you are properly sat down when they give you the quote for the supply, let alone when your electricity retailer sends you a bill for using as much electricity in 18 minutes (with a 350kw for your Evija) as the average home uses in a month.

Anyone who can afford an Evija will obviously be able to afford to run it, just like with a Bugatti etc.

So, do I think BEV's are the only answer to our problems. No. Do I think they are the best answer right now. No I don't. Do I think they will be usurped within the next 15 years and replaced with other technology, yes I do.

I'll close the door. Just got the popcorn from the microwave and back in my comfort zone on the sofa. Not had such an enlightened debate on a forum for some time. So thanks for that.

Oh, I nearly forgot, Miss Piggy says "Hi" and that the gang are all missing you.

[KAS-118]

39 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

Oh my. You really do not get it do you. You also missed the bit about YOUR link saying that Samsung HOPE to use Graphene in future phones. Remind me, which phone can you buy right now that is powered by a Graphene battery? - er, to quote you, "you don't know what your saying" and if it ain't currently commercially availabel then it ain't commercial yet. What am I missing?

 

Wow back so soon?

As you know - as previously explained I replied to your comment about commercial use of graphene "being years away" - it isn't. I gave you example of battery use which it is anticipatred is coming out next year. However - graphene is used for consumer good now - see https://shackletonlondon.com/products/vincent-graphene-baselayer?_pos=1&_sid=4f7929856&_ss=r

So - you're missing a lot.

Clearly you statement that it was years off is simply wrong - and now you're trying to present an argument its not 'commercially' available now.

It's nice to see that you've stopped demonstrating your ignorance regarding hydrogen power however. 

Tesla V3 Superchargers are acutely available now - and yeah, maybe the supply to a home will need to be upgraded to run at that power at home - but of course its unlikely you need that charging speed at home - as most people will keep it 'topped up' and have a full charge when leaving home. However, no-doubt there are some very ignorant people who wouldn't think about that - to in a rush to watch the Muppet Show  no doubt 🙄

As for what happens if everyone has an electric car - well thats addressed in part here https://www.wired.co.uk/article/electric-vehicle-car-infrastructure-charging-point

However, that stage is a good few years off isn't it?

39 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

So, do I think BEV's are the only answer to our problems. No. Do I think they are the best answer right now. No I don't. Do I think they will be usurped within the next 15 years and replaced with other technology, yes I do.

I'll close the door. Just got the popcorn from the microwave and back in my comfort zone on the sofa. Not had such an enlightened debate on a forum for some time. So thanks for that.

Oh, I nearly forgot, Miss Piggy says "Hi" and that the gang are all missing you.

Never said BEV were the 'only answer' indeed I~ previously said that there would have to be a mixture -  but hey, you've proved that you found it difficult to read - so the fact you missed that doesn't really come as a surprise. 

Unlike you I don't spend my time with Miss Piggy. Its nice you've admitted (twice) that you do - and I do note the family resemblance - Gammons together 

 

Edited February 8, 2020 by KAS-118