Ready to Buy, but which ones - new Brakes

[Dave Freeman]

Its time to bite the bullet and buy new brakes, a few out there too choose from but the final decision is difficult. I spoke to PNM and Pete has sent me some options. So the choices are 6 or 4 Pot, one piece or with a bell, so what does this give me. Does size matter, the 6 pot 323mm look good and would go better under the 18 inch rear rims. Pete at PNM sent me these options, the bell kit seams expensive but may be worth it.

Hispec four or six pot calipers (same size as the four pot sport 350 AP

calipers) for the front:-

PNMJ1693G BIG DISC KIT - 6 POT MON 6 ESPRIT 93 > ONE PIECE DISC

(323mm) £885.00

PNMJ2693G BIG DISC KIT - 6 POT MON 6 ESPRIT 93> PNM DISC / BELL KIT

(321 mm) £1175.00

PNMJ1493G BIG DISC KIT - 4 POT MON 4 ESPRIT 93 > ONE PIECE DISC

(323mm) £785.00

PNMJ2493G BIG DISC KIT - 4 POT MON 4 ESPRIT 93 > PNM DISC / BELL KIT

(321 mm) £1055.00

For the rear we do :-

PNMJ8300G VENTED DISC KIT - REAR BREMBO ESPRIT 88 > (300mm / 16"+

WHLS) £550.00

PNMJ7300G VENTED DISC KIT - REAR 4 POT HSP ESPRIT 88 > (300mm / 16"+

WHLS) £550.00

And then the most difficult choice is the colour, I favour RED, that will match Megan's on her Porsche, what a pair of tarts.

Anyone have any suggestions for this difficult but interesting problem of - which are the best, and what bloody colour !

Take care all, Dave (no longer missing in action)

[CHANGES]

Hi Dave

As you are now aware i have been down the alley looking at all the points you refer to.... My decision to go with PNM's kit was the right one . I have only just tried them and must say how impressed by the improvement to std. set up. This is before they have bedded in. over the short test distance they got better and better,I'm well impressd.

I settled on the 4 pot front and large disc with the bell separate, This was straight forward easy fit..... On the rear i initially went for the Brembo as V8 but felt this not the best option so pete very kindly changed them for the 4 pot rears with the seperate hand brake set up. This has a lot more pad on the vented disc feels better and looks better. Handbrake works too. A fiddle to fit hand brake but great once done, the rest was just nuts and bolts. ... I went for the Hawk blue pads which needed a little fettling for the anti rattle clips and a corner on the rear inside backing plate needed a small relief which Pete did before sending out... I did however add a return spring to the handbrake mechanism to help it release more easy. probably not needed once bedded in, but did it anyway.!!!

CONCLUSION

Bloody good kit , fits well, works great. looks good too. Highly recommended.....

[arbell9]

I went fort the 6 pot monster fronts with 323 disc. Supplied by espritperformance.com but fitted by PNM.

Edited November 21, 2010 by Alex --GT3--

[andydclements]

Mine are only 309mm (32mm thick) with 4 pots, more than sufficient for the car but probably not if I was to do regular track use.

[MPx]

I cant even remember what size rotors I bought, but they would just be the "standard" Turbo Esprit kit that Pete does. I bought them at Castle Combe after the OEM brakes failed having locked on (front right) and boiled the fluid. Black colour works for me cos I cant see them through the cross spokes so the car doesn't look modded - which is what I wanted.

In action they work well enough, but not so well that you'd be blown away, eyes popping out of sockets. They also took more bedding in (using Pete's recommended Mintex 1144 pads) than I expected - which caused some bum clenching moments on track at Llandow. But now they're sorted, they just work and I dont have to worry about them.

Its not clear why you're uprating your's Dave. Is it for track use, or just to have some good looking road gear? If you're tracking regularly then spend the extra on AP racing set up. If you're tracking but keen on HiSpec then use the separate bells cos you'll save the difference in replacement discs having worn/warped* them. If its fast road use it doesn't matter, they'll all work better than std so look is everything. On a black car any colour will look good.

You do need to think a bit about balance. Monster fronts with 6 pots will bite well, but tend to lock if you dont put some reasonable stoppers on the back. The HiSpec 300mm 4 pot rears shld be fine, but dont go bigger or you'll put too much rear bias on and thats even worse!

*I have been told that warping is a misnomer and that the judder effect is caused by fused pad material on the disc surface

[cjtpb13]

Dave,

Personal opinion would be to do the 6pot in front and the 4pot in the rear. I find that it does a great job at brake balance. I say be a pair of tarts as you said and go with the colour choice of red. One thing I regret on mine is having them in black. Plus with your motorcar it would look fantastic.

p.s. Welcome back and so look towards seeing you both soon...

[red vtec]

Hi Dave,

I have the 4 Pot fitted on my car, what a difference it makes it now stops. I fitted them as I got them very, very cheap pre owned. Mine are silver.

Your running a lot more Bhp than me, so maybe the bigger kit? but then again 70mph is 70 mph Martyn has the same as me fitted on his SE and reports no issues. If I had the choice and money I'd go 6 pot for the looks.

Red sounds good.

Chris

[rocket63]

RED RED

[Simon350S]

So what we doing with these links then dude?

Didn't have any free time to pop over with them after but I've finished all my work now so could post them over if your still wanting them?

Black car, gold calipers, it's the only logical choice!

[rogerch]

At the risk of making myself unpopular, I'll put my 2 bob in.

The job of the brakes is the retard the rotation of a road wheel as fast as possible without locking. It's interaction is the tread of the tyre and the surface of the road/track.

You have 4 patches of rubber contacting with the road, the front 2 narrower than the rear 2.

Under retardation more weight is transferred to the front.

Some how you need to keep the “effective” braking pressure even, now add heat as a factor, the more the retardation, the more friction the more heat, heat boils fluids.

Having said that, my first Lotus was a series 3 Elan, it was under braked, my 2^nd was a series 4 Elan, it was under braked, and guess what my current Esprit is under braked. Though even with “spirited” road driving they are adequate.

If you increase the braking efficiency at the front you create an imbalance front to rear. If a 6 pot calliper requires more pedal pressure that increased pressure transfers to the rears as well, possibly causing lock up.

“I'll put 6 pots on the front and 4s on the back” is guess work, don't guess with brakes. If you are going down the path a “substantial” upgrade, think seriously about a twin master cylinder set up.

If I were to contemplate a brake upgrade my first port of call would be the factory, there is still a lot of knowledge there and friendly advice. Brakes that will repeatedly slow you from 150 to say 20, all day, won't provide anywhere near that efficiency going down to the corner shop when a kid runs out in front of you.

I'm still on stock brakes but recently improved the performance markedly simply by fitting new shims.

Oh, and we as drivers interact with our brakes differently. All I'm saying is caution when dealing with brakes you life and others may depend on it.

OK, had my say

Edited November 22, 2010 by Roger the Dodger

[Advantage]

I had similar (but less complicated!) thoughts to Roger when my Brembos were on their last legs, so upgraded via the factory for the calipers and pads and used a 320mm set of discs:

[rogerch]

Nice, I'm sold, if I upgrade my brakes I'll follow your lead.

[Bibs]

Dave - If you want the Sport350/2002MY AP Calipers as per Pilko's car I can get them for you in black, £409 each but you'll get 10% off as a full forum member

[Dave Freeman]

Well that's all excellent information guys, appreciate you input. Those rotors and calipers look great.

I am airing on the side of 6 pot fronts with solid one piece discs. And 4 pot on the rear. The colour will be ....RED.

Simon, please pm me your address and I will post the harness Wednesday direct to you.

So now off to order my bits, got lots of work to do in stripping the suspension and making it nice and clean.

Any thought about the webcam. Would anyone find it useful.

Take care all, dave

Bibs. Thanks for the offer but they must I think be RED. It's a must.

By the way can you advise payment method for Xmas dinner. Can do card or cheque or cash on the night. Will sought out menu this evening.

Dave

[Bibs]

Deposit is by paypal which means card, you'll settle the rest on the night with the restaurant.

[martynv]

Dave,

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't your car a 1990, because the first post indicates brakes are for 1993 onward so unless you've changed your hubs they ain't going to fit. You need to ask him for the earlier versions I've got on mine if so.

See Ya

Martyn.

[esp88]

Hi Dave

I brougt few years ago PNM Hi-Spec 4 pot with small disk (to fit in 15´wheels) with yellow pads and the rear is brembo caliper (same as Elise S1 rear). but it's not much better than before.

This spring upgraded to same as 350, AP caliper same as GKP with 320mm disk with spec. made bell. I can say it's much better than Hispec caliper!