Will Lotus new cars be built at Hethel?

[simonb]

Just been on the local news that Lotus were declined for their Government grant

[Bibs]

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/politics/disappointment_as_ignored_norfolk_misses_out_on_42m_1_861979

[Kimbers]

Under the new Management the new Cars were never all going to built at Hethel...or even the UK for that matter. This can now give them a convenient excuse, not thay £20-40 million is much of a dent in the money needed.

Maybe the Govt were swayed by certain issues currently going on?

[Bibs]

That made them ignore the entire South East and East Anglia? Hell of a 'maybe'...

[hedgerley]

This is no surprise really. I have been working in and around the RDA/Business Link sector the last few years and have been involved in some of the new LEPs, their successor bodies. All the noise coming out of Government (and its predecessor HM Opposition) was about a focus on the Midlands and the North, to the extent that one option considered was to retain the 'Northern' RDAs and Business Links. It was also said at the time that the South East and East of England 'were the last places that need Government support' as the entrepreneurial spirit was alive and well in those regions.

Given their demise the fact that the Regional Growth Fund is focusing on the North is a continuation of that thought process and policy.

Having said that, I don't think Danny has done himself any favours with the very public 'splashing of the cash' on glitzy launches and parties, Hollywood B Listers and the biggest money pit of all, Formula 1. That would not go down well with the suits in Whitehall. But he does deserve credit for pushing the Hethel plans through, the improvements to the test track and the Heritage Centre. I just hope there is enough money left to design, develop and build new product - preferably in the UK.

[WayneB]

I feel bad for the fellows local to Lotus who depend on the place as a source of income.

As Mark pointed out it is rather odd blowing a load of money on high profile, fancifull things one minute, then the next going cap in hand to the UK government for money the next, but I guess it all makes perfect sense to the Dany, who seams to like selling the sizzle more than the steak.

We now have the odd situation at Lotus where the company seems to be based more on hype/promises and less on actual substance which puzzles me as the substance side of the business is what actually generates the money to keep the lights on.

My own view is that they should have continued with MJKs down to earth and realistic plan and put "his" Esprit into production , which in itself would have surely generated alot more favourable publicity than all of the mock up showcars and drunken Baldwin brothers ever could?

Anyways, most of the new Lotus's will be assembled in Graz, Austria by Magna I expect , which will probably be perfectly acceptable to all of the forum members who proudly are showing off their Porsches on this forum.

Me, I'm in mourning, all I wanted was to buy a new Esprit that cost less than a Ferrari and was made in Norfolk, England.

[Exploded]

Me, I'm in mourning, all I wanted was to buy a new Esprit that cost less than a Ferrari and was made in Norfolk, England.

I agree, although a few people pointed out to me, in other topics , that build quality is more important than the place where the car is made. Me on the other hand, I just can not see that a new Esprit, which should be in the league with Fezza's and Lambo's, is not built at Lotus. Would customers from Fezza's or Lambo's accept their car is not built in Italy, not in Modena? I can not understand that any customer would buy that.

Let's face it, it's going to take quite a lot of effort, to convince people to buy an Esprit instead of another Super Car, that market is simply swamped these days. Adding to that the car is not even built by Lotus themselves, will not help, I think. Their is no passion in letting other people do the work.

As said before, blowing your money in F1 and then asking the tax payers for money, is not done. Although I do understand the worries from the locals. To them it's a sad thing.

[Bibs]

As said before, blowing your money in F1 and then asking the tax payers for money, is not done.

Ferrari?

[hedgerley]

Interesting to see that GM Luton, Bentley, Nissan and JLR were all successful in this first round of the RGF. Makes you wonder what Lotus got wrong, apart from being based in the South. Looking at the list of winners there is a definite Northern bias.

The second RGF round starts today with decisions in June. I guess Lotus will try again.

[WayneB]

Me, I'm in mourning, all I wanted was to buy a new Esprit that cost less than a Ferrari and was made in Norfolk, England.

Something like this would have done me , Mr.Bahar.

[simonb]

Just read the statement awarding the grants.

http://nds.coi.gov.uk/content/Detail.aspx?ReleaseID=419127&NewsAreaID=2

Seeing that Lord Heseltine, chair of the Independent Advisory Panel, was a cabinet member when Lotus were previously embroiled in Government grants, I am surprised they even bothered to ask

[Exploded]

Ferrari?

Exactly, that is why I never was and never will be, a Ferrari fan. In fact, when they are leading a GP, I tend to turn off tv. I couldn't care less if they win. How crazy is that?

[Kimbers]

Makes you wonder what Lotus got wrong,

Do you really need to ask mate?

Millions spent at Paris entertaining, private jets for employees, suites at the Hilton, Multiple company cars for Directors incl Range Rovers, £10 mill on just putting your name on an F1 car, millions spent in Peacocking because someone beat you to buying the name of Team Lotus, Flights home at weekends in Private Jets, playboy lifestyles of senior Directors, Tens of thousands spent on "Designer" desks etc for executives offices....Jeez the company no longer has a British Director!! the question is "Why would the Govt possibly invest?" The Govt aren't blind as to where their money is going.

As for Ferrari Bibs the Italian Govt actually partially own and did own Fiat, the parent company and so its an Italian Govt supporting an Italian company, Owned by Italians and run by Italians. Not a Company indirectly owned by another Govt, Owned by Malaysians and run by Italians/Germans etc.

[Bibs]

Interesting to see that GM Luton, Bentley, Nissan and JLR were all successful in this first round of the RGF.

Not sure national ownership was a huge consideration in the applications mate. The RGF is about creating jobs in the UK.

[Kimbers]

And being put to good use.

[Gus82]

Thought this article was interesting: http://www.autoevolution.com/news/uk-government-denies-loan-for-lotus-34288.html

I thought it was the Elan concept that was on hold according to Car magazine a couple of months ago. Autocar also have a short piece this week saying that they are still evaluating a BMW V8 instead of building their own engines which I think would make sense for the time being and allow them to keep development costs and the final price down.

The Elite concept I didn't like much anyway, and in my opinion if they ever do get round to making a front engined GT car then it should be a wedgy and futuristic shooting break like the second generation Elite. And the Elan concept should be badged as an Evora S2 or S3 (if the rumoured facelift of the current car happens), a new Elan should be much smaller, cheaper and lighter.

Why would they put the new Elise on hold though? Surely a more user friendly Elise could help Lotus hit its sales targets on its own.

The bottom line is though that Lotus' flagship cars need to be made in the UK, it might be ok to build an entry level model abroad for reasons of cost, but cars like the new Esprit, Evora and the Elan concept can only be built in one place and that's Hethel.

Gus

[chipp]

not sure if i'm right but i'm sure i heard in the background on the tv tonight that proton have secured a substantial sum of wonga from other sources. does that mean more private jets and champagne, or a large cash injection to production at hethel. we'll have to wait for some PR from the guys at the helm.

chipp

[simonb]

perhaps they will need a bigger wine cellar for the boardroom

[Don.Hasi]

Ferrari?

It seems to me different... as Ferrari is continously in the F1-Paddock. In this case the taxpayers must think, that they sponsor the sponsorship of Renault, beside the other things...

If there were not any other british F1-Team, perhaps it would be different again.

[nolotusyet]

Someone on the forum (forgive me for not remembering who) mentioned John Z DeLorean in connection with the current Lotus situation. The more I see the more I agree with them. If this current piece of Bahar kite flying does not succeed expect to see him turn up somewhere else fronting up another (maybe sovereign wealth funded) luxo-venture. He doesn't care about Lotus, it's just a vehicle for his ego.

Why would I want my taxes squandered on somebody's luxury lifestyle?

[fmxa]

My own view is that they should have continued with MJKs down to earth and realistic plan and put "his" Esprit into production , which in itself would have surely generated alot more favourable publicity than all of the mock up showcars and drunken Baldwin brothers ever could?

And why do you think the MJK era MSC (Esprit) was delayed year after year and never put it into production?

Me, I'm in mourning, all I wanted was to buy a new Esprit that cost less than a Ferrari and was made in Norfolk, England.

As for being in mourning, if the cost of the new Esprit is going to impact your net worth to the point it has to be less than a Ferrari, then you're clearly not the target demographic for the car anyway ....

[Kimbers]

And why do you think the MJK era MSC (Esprit) was delayed year after year and never put it into production?

Please don't quote the usual rubbish without knowledge from someone other than the current crowd.

The MSC was virtually complete. I know dealers and potential buyers had seen the car. It as delayed only when MJK took over because after driving it MJK said it was "not viable" and "Not a Lotus". With too many drive and handling issues. It was also quoted that MJK wanted to take smaller steps and hence needed the Evora to come out first at £50k before the Esprit at £90k so people had a step up and options depending on their budget. It was the £150k supercar that was put on the back burner until 5 years or so, so that the company could raise its image using the other 2.

FYI the Esprit used the VVA chassis to keep costs down but had a V8 and though in the same family as the Evora definately looked different.

It would have been at the production stage now if it hadn't been deemed too Lotus and not enough Ferrari!

Information taken from press reports and the Lotus Ferrari thing is my own opinion and not that of anyone else.

[fmxa]

Please don't quote the usual rubbish without knowledge from someone other than the current crowd.

Trust me my friend, my sources are golden with past and present "crowds", and MSC being "virtually complete" is a fantasy. I'm just disappointed in how you take every opportunity to bash the "new crowd" with subtle innuendoes since your dad left. MJK brought the brand back from the verge of extinction and he's a hero to all of us, but it's time to encourage the brand to continue its evolution into a new era vs hoping you can soon yell "told you so".

[Kimbers]

The way the business is going is not something I can support or like and as such I use my rights as a British Citizen, living locally with local knowledge, to speak my mind. I don't agree with the fact that everytime someone says anything anti they get shouted down. Maybe I've gone too far the other way in response to this and thank you for pointing it out. I will moderate my responses in future.

However sorry I am you don't approve of me having a negative point of view, as we have never had reason to argue, I'm not a subtle person and find it hard to use innuendo, Preferring to be honest and just voice my dislike/like for something. If I use innuendo then theres a reason and I won't say anything more about that. If you find something I say distastful then I whole heartedly support your right to say so and open a discussion.

I'm sure the company needed to move forward and MJK I know agreed. In principle I agree too with what they are doing, but I think its all too much too soon. I don't like the cars, the business plans are too vague and not achievable and the methods distastful (using outside design and build for example).

As for the MSC I disagree but I'm sure you know more than I do.

I have voiced my support when I hear something I like. But when people quote things I know to be wrong I try and put them right. For example, I said designing their own engine was too expensive and it seems like the new Management now agrees and is evaluating virtually the same engine the previous management did! I'm just happy they read my posts and take in my advice

[Jonathan]

Thinks, if people didn't voice their disapproval - we'd still have Gordon Brown running the show