Cold air intake

[spunagain]

I have been a bit worried so I bought a Bluetooth OBD2 dongle and downloaded "torque" onto SWMBO's android phone. I have logged plots of rpm,air flow, throttle position, O2 sensor voltage and timing advance with my CAI fitted. I have done some full throttle runs to get a plot of just air low against rpm. While the air flow curve against rpm is not totally smooth, I am not sure whether that is normal or not. I will try and do a run with a stock car soon - hopefully Saturday and will post results for both to see if there is any appreciable difference.

I do not know how to interpret the other readings but maybe someone here can.

Regards

spunagain

[rafphillips]

Hi Mel,

Thanks, useful stuff, yeah I have done a bit of reading and it would seem the filter and the offset orientation along with the curve in the pipe may be key.

My car also has a decat and it would seem the more freely a car breathes the more chance there is of a warning light, the ECU does learn to a degree.

Like wise ref orientation on mine, I took a quick glance and matched the pic but not exact.

I have had responses and also shared my experience for his information gathering excercise but don't want to share that exchange for obvious reasons.

If its dry this weekend will have a play and post up some of the graphs so anyone with a keen eye can help us all interpret the differences in air flow and MAF readings between the 2. I also have a squeak from one of the pipes that vibrates from time to time so good excuse to pin point and fix that.

I will also photo my orientation and we can do a compare, not sure I am brave enough to experiment with changing the orientation.

Cheers

Raf

Spun again - top stuff let's do the same and we can compare on 2 cars. Do you have any other mods fitted?

Mine is via laptop connected but can record a graph from a run etc.

I think the thing we need to put our minds at rest is some evidence there aren't huge spikes or variations on the CAI vs the stock air box.

[spunagain]

Just CAI and 3rd cat delete

[mdavies]

Raf, spunagain,  I'd be glad to hear details of the particular OBD kit that you use - the connector makes, PC software, phone apps, whatever you find useful. Hope I won't regret saying I've never yet had a reason to get geared up with that, but perhaps it's time!

[spunagain]

I got this one http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bluetooth-ELM327-Vehicle-Scanner-Diagnostic/dp/B007XPPLQS/ref=sr_1_cc_2?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1354572548&sr=1-2-catcorr

I did not use the supplied sw for fear of viruses.

I ordered it Friday and it arrived saturday am.

I used "Torque" which is a free Android app. It is fantastic and I plan to pay £2.95 for the full version.

Hints: you need to go into the app settings to set up the logs you want and it does not save these if you exit the app. (Which you might need to do to encourage the phone to link to the bt module - it is not totally glitch free!)

When logging it records from the smartphone: GPS position, speed, and xyz g from the accelerometer as well as time and the obd stuff you select.

I have been hugely impressed with what you can do for the money.

If you share logs I suggest caution as the raw data will show what speed you were doing and when! Not that anyone here would speed on public roads let soon post evidence of it on line!

Oh and I email the logs as a .csv file to my PC and make graphs using Excel.

Edited December 3, 2012 by spunagain

[rafphillips]

I purchased one of the obd11 elm 327 port readers off eBay with the software (but its free online) was about £12 and the software I use I can't remember off the top of my head whatbut will fire up the laptop and let you know.

I only purchased when I had the error codes after fitting te CAI, never had a need before bit after a trip to the local garage thought it would come in useful.

Here is the one ...

CAR PC DIAGNOSTIC SCANNER FAULT CODE READER OBD OBD2 USB

http://bit.ly/11thOnL

Spunagain may get that one also at that price would be rude not too ;-)

[spunagain]

I updated the link as I did go with the cheaper one with better feedback. Same maker as yours tho'

[mdavies]

spunagain and raf, thanks for that info. I'm surprised at how cheap the kit is! Tempted to get both.  Re the Android "Torque" app, the phones vary quite a bit in power and Android version.  Any constraints re that? I don't have an Android phone at present but getting the on-the -road data too would be a real plus.

[spunagain]

Nope, if you have a low power phone use an "App Killer" erm.. app such as "advanced taks killer free" and use it to shut down any applications you are not actually using while logging. I got to log everything I needed at 10 samples a second using a mates cheapie HTC yesterday. You have to set logging rate in the settings menu. Also you may need to enable the "faster connection" in settings.

Good luck!

[YvoTuk]

hmmm there's a lot of misunderstanding of the 'dark art of MAF sensors'.

 

Basically all you want is a stable and constant air supply through the MAF sensor into the throttle body.

The MAF sensor would also need to be in a position to realistically sample the air mass.

Positioning it in a way where lf would produce more power probably means you are trying to trick the ECU and might end up with some serious engine trouble.

 

As for the K-series and the 2ZZ I know a stable non turbulent air supply helps giving you all you can from the induction side, I have not been able to test that on the Evora yet, but I would assume it's the same.

 

In what ever way an induction kit is designed, with the MAF sensor 'somewhere in the induction' you will need non turbulent air or it'll constantly throw errors.

 

IMO the best way to create a long term working solution which isn't restricting but also delivers this non turbulent air flow is by properly simulating the air flow and verifying the simulation by checking the MAF readings with what came out of the simulator. If both are comparable and if the simulation proofs the air mass sampled by the MAF is correct you can say the kit is good for use.

 

I've not yet decided on what to do on the C part of the CAI story.

A Radium clearly isn't a Cold air intake as the filter isn't sealed, isn't close to the air intake and hot air can quite easily flow into the filter around this mounting plate.

From that point of view even the OE airbox is better as it's drawing it's air directly from the air intake. (but it's restrictive in all other ways)

 

Disadvantage of a proper CAI is the amount of water you might be choking in from the air intake. I would imagine this can be quite a lot on the Evora which introduces another potential issue.

Last but nowadays not least a proper CAI will produce more noise as the noise is directed to the air intake which in turn connects to the outside world.. hmmm.... need to think of something new there

[mdavies]

A Radium clearly isn't a Cold air intake as the filter isn't sealed, isn't close to the air intake and hot air can quite easily flow into the filter around this mounting plate.

 

Just not so according to my measurements. (See my "Cool or What" posts, about 12 months ago.) Your baldly claimed "rationale" re sealing, closeness and hot air flows is no basis for discussion. It all depends on the flows as they are in a moving car.

 

I'm not a flag-waver for Radium and will readily move to an improved version should one become available, but their CAI works for me and without any hiccups. I have discussed it and its basis of operation with genuine experts and, whilst it may not be the last word, I am happy with it.

 

PS: One minor improvement that appears to be worthwhile is to coat the engine side of the screening plate with shiny foil.  Not measured it, but basic physics and the "touch test" indicates a reduced temperature of the plate itself and may drop the air inflow temperature by some small amount.

PPS: And re "hiccups", note recent discussions re orientation of the filter element.

Edited December 8, 2012 by mdavies

[Khyber73]

Installed a radium cai with a lotus sports exhaust and resonator delete pipe:-) sounds great at high rpm though there is a hiss at lower revs on partial throttle... feels faster:-) shud have dynoed it:-(

[rafphillips]

I am now in the process or removing the radium from my car. Going to be upgrading the whole car (to a new one) in the next few months so initially removing the CAI and then the Larini and decat pipe following that.

The CIA has done less than 150 dry miles since it was installed so is as new but will pop it up in the for sale section at the weekend.

[Whitey]

I am now in the process or removing the radium from my car. Going to be upgrading the whole car (to a new one) in the next few months so initially removing the CAI and then the Larini and decat pipe following that.

The CIA has done less than 150 dry miles since it was installed so is as new but will pop it up in the for sale section at the weekend.

 

What's next then?

[rafphillips]

All being well an Evora S Sports Racer - gonna stick mine up for sale in late April and see how I get on. Fingers crossed by then a CAI will also be released for the S's

[Julian73]

All being well an Evora S Sports Racer - gonna stick mine up for sale in late April and see how I get on. Fingers crossed by then a CAI will also be released for the S's

BOE Fabrication's CAI for the S is on the road and should be publicly available

shortly.  You will love the S and the Sports Racer package seems a nice way to get into it, along with a great interior; I love the leather suedeTex combo used in the GP Edition

 

Edited February 6, 2013 by Julian73

[mdavies]

All being well an Evora S Sports Racer - gonna stick mine up for sale in late April and see how I get on. Fingers crossed by then a CAI will also be released for the S's

 

Raf, for me the S Sports Racer presentation is the cost/style combo that could have helped Evora sales from the start - tempting. But as Lotus' marketing chief, I'd be putting the magic "they" have produced for the Exige V6 Cup R on as well - at least as a post-sale dealer option - and watch the queues build. (See "Up Your S" in Chat.)  It seems third party intakes (properly developed) are likely to be available soon, but with a Lotus Approved kit it would be winner for me.

[mdavies]

If this post started a new thread, I’d call it “Radium Ratified”.  I’m not but, for those with little time for detail, that is the conclusion from my test today at TDI on their Charity Day.

 

As this may be of interest to a fair number, and being aware of the “uncertainties and questions” that have been raised on some forums about the whether, the what and the how of the Radium CAI’s effect on the NA Evora’s performance, I’m trying to write this with due care, rather than simply putting up numbers that leave uncertainties. So. 

 

Just my Evora tested, with Lotus Sports exhaust and (always) run on Shell V Power. (The second CAI expected couldn’t make it today.).  Sport setting on.

 

TDI: professional, scientific, repeatable measurement using hub-connected dynos.  Corrected for ambient environmental factors to standard values.  (Mine dropped 3 hp on that.)  I won’t repeat the descriptions of TDI already on several threads here. Their website includes very informative downloads on dyno testing. They are not to be compared with “back-of-a-garage rolling roads”. (Hope no offence!)

 

Units: Lotus quote in Imperial, giving 276 HP and 258 lb ft.  They also state the Metric value (PS) of 280 HP.   TDI measure in Metric HP (which are 98.6% of Imperial), but use lb ft for torque.

 

Transmission losses to the hubs:  TDI assess the Evora transmission loss as 12% to 14%. I assume a loss of 13%.  (Not important here, but I forgot to ask which gear they used.) There were two power runs, results averaged.

 

First, and more important than power, the fuel/air ratio. Questions have been raised. I am very pleased that - on my car - the result is excellent. (TDI have the background of their own Radium testing - see the TDI CAI PLUS thread.)  Normally the NA mixture runs too rich for maximum power and, as has been (negatively) claimed elsewhere, the CAI does weaken it slightly. But, in TDI’s words: “to the ideal that they would aim for if developing a setup”.  That applies from idle up to 5,500 rpm. Then it enriches gradually to the standard mix by 6,500 and holds that up to the rev limiter at 7,200 rpm.  Good news!  (Graph to follow.)

 

I note there is the opportunity to further increase power at the top end by adding the TDI special filter that allows a little more peak air flow. Mixture management there needs care and another test.  I will put more re this on the TDI CAI PLUS thread but I understand that special filter is what gives the Exige S Cup R a little boost.  (See the Up Your S thread.)

 

And the numbers.  (Graphs to follow.) 

 

Peak HP: Imperial(Metric)

             Standard: 276(280) at 6,400 rpm   Radium CAI/Sports exhaust: 295.9(300.1) at 6,240 rpm

 

Max Torque:  lb ft

             Standard: 258  at 4,600 rpm         Radium CAI/Sports exhaust: 276.75  at 4,620 rpm

 

Gains of 20 HP and 18.75 lb ft.

 

From a fairly quick check of the Radium web site, I can’t see whether their claimed +21.5 HP is Imperial or metric. If metric (and why not, it gives a bigger number!) that is +21 HP Imperial. So at +20 HP for mine, I’m not seeking my money back.  It is interesting that they show a max torque increase of only 8 lb ft. But direct comparison of actual numbers is impossible as so many things differ and are unknown, including their exhaust, and we know nothing of their dyno. It is the torque curve overall that matters. Perhaps worth noting that adding 13% transmission loss to their measurement of the Standard Evora intake gives 263 lb ft, not too far from the Lotus stated figure of 258 lb ft.

 

On a personal note, as I initially wrote so much and so enthusiastically on the CAI in the early days, I am rather relieved!

[mdavies]

Sorry, should have made it clearer that TDI’s words on the weakened fuel/air ratio: “to the ideal that they would aim for if developing a setup” were said to me relating to the measured results on my car. It was not a general statement. 

 

That slightly weaker ratio fits with the slight improvement in mpg that I mentioned in my earliest report, way back. Chatting today, I was interested that someone who was disappointed with and removed their CAI because - as I understood - he found performance at lower power/revs was worse, mentioned getting some 2 mpg improvement.  That is distinctly greater than I found; mine was just noticeable on the displayed figure on a well used fun route, say 0.5 mpg. Coupling those points makes me think of an air leak possibility, perhaps in the seal around the flow meter itself. That effect would probably reduce as the overall flow increased at high power. 

Edited March 30, 2013 by mdavies

[rafphillips]

Mel thanks for taking the time to post this up that's good news, some impartial facts rather than speculation etc. As we know the prerson who had issues in the US was a highly modified NA with a supercharger. I haven't seen anyone openly say they have had any issues with a Radium on a NA (other than the odd CEL as I had after first fitting)

I know someone else who has one and recently had theirs dynod and re-mapped and they were given the same message as you by a different tuner, AFR within safe ranges and car runs a little rich from the factory (note that was an NA with a Larini and decat).

I still have mine in the garage and once it's back from Williams in a few weeks having the gearbox out I am planning to re-fit mine. Been missing the noise TBH!

Having recently driven the S sports racer it's wasn't enough to justify the extra mula so going to stick with mine for a bit longer yet.

[mdavies]

My pics for the Radium Air/fuel test at TDI.  Tried all sorts of settings but could not make my scanner pick up the faint red and fainter yellow line on the air fuel mix graph, so took a photo of it.   In order to get it on here I had to crop and condense it to low quality.  Hope it is still readable. The bottom yellow line is the ideal (according to TDI). Scans of the power printouts later.

 

The Power graphs. They are at 200 dpi. I made higher res scans but they were too big for the loader to accept. These each take about 0.5 MBytes.

 

 

Edited March 30, 2013 by mdavies

[Bentzion]

Rafphillips,

 

I have run the Radium CAI on my NA for 12 months and about 3.5K miles with plenty of high power use and no trace of any kind of problem. I value it to the degree that without it I would dispose of the car. That is background and not the point of this post.

 

From reading through the relevant thread to which you refer on the other forum, IMO, despite there being considerably more heat than light, it emerges (albeit not stated directly by him) that the originator fitted a CAI in company with other significant modifications including, as stated by others, a supercharger.  If that is so, his circumstances would seem irrelevant to the use of the CAI on a standard NA engine.

 

His initial post requested that anyone who had discovered problems arising from the CAI should contact him privately and thus we cannot know whether any such contacts have been made. At the time of my posting this, I did not see any such referred to.

 

Within the other thread, potential litigation has been referred to.  I have no idea whether comments made in unrelated forums such as this might become referenced should litigation in the US take place, but I suggest any posts should be phrased with appropriate consideration of that and of any consequential view that Radium might take.

 

IMO, anyone wishing to take a view on the matter should read the whole thread on the other forum before forming an opinion. Having done so, I remain entirely unconcerned. 

Mel,

 

That is right on the money!  The shop that fitted the CAI said that the MAP sensor was reading very erratic when they fitted all the mods at a very high RPM then it read erratic frequently.  The guy blew the motor because of a lean condition.  The fact that he fitted a S/C has a lot to do with it.  When they finally replaced the motor they fitted the STOCK air intake and all the erratic readings ceased.  He hasn't had that problem since...  I dont think Radium ever tested a supercharged motor.

Edited March 31, 2013 by Bentzion

[mdavies]

Raf, sorry for a late reply. (Been b....y ages trying to get my pic/graphs up from a standing first-timer start, then having to redo everything because the nice hi res versions were too big!)

 

Thanks for mentioning that second source; always good.  Tried but failed to quote just your 2nd para, saying: "I know someone else who has one and recently had theirs dynod and re-mapped and they were given the same message as you by a different tuner, AFR within safe ranges and car runs a little rich from the factory (note that was an NA with a Larini and decat)."

 

I'm also thinking of the de-cat next, but the first MOT in two months and may play safe until afterwards. Interesting your view on the Sports Racer. After my "shortish but quite serious - Jamie insisted I use Race setting" solo go in the Exige S this pm, I'm thinking perhaps I could ignore its "characterful" look, primitive interior, shortage of space, exorbitant cost, alighting-passenger complaints and any other sensible objections for the gee-whizz fun of it.  If you've not yet, do give it a go.

 

[Trevsked]

Mel,

What we need is a standard car with standard exhaust and a Radium fitted. I seriously doubt the Radium produces the claimed 20hp on its own. My car reads 259.9hp with a Lotus sports exhaust but I'm uncertain if it has had the third cat removed even though I have had a look. Where the cat should be looks too big for a straight decat pipe but too small for a cat. I would need to see a standard car to be sure of what I am looking at. According to my calls your car makes 5hp more than mine, unless I've got that wrong!

Trevor.

[cweeden]

Hi Trev, Mel,

 

Unfortunately I couldn't make it on Saturday as originally planned and I have a NA with just the Radium modification. I had it rolling road tested at Surrey Rolling Road before and after the Radium was installed and posted my findings at http://www.thelotusforums.com/forums/topic/54772-tdi-charity-evora-dyno-day-30th-march/?view=findpost&p=444021 (I hope that link works).

It doesn't show 20hp increase but about half of that (still good in my opinion). The AFRs are also posted and while leaner than stock not dangerous and more performance could be had by running leaner still. Perhaps I should rotate the K&N to see if that makes a difference, its orientation has been a discussion point as a possible variable that can impact the performance gains from the CAI mod. Either way I am happy with it and glad it is not running lean. I would however like a little more refinement in the noise (slight quieter would be good) at the top end of the rev range once the cam timing changes.

I am `listening` to the other threads who think the airflow is too unstable for the Air Flow Meter to measure accurately and consistently. I think this would only be fully answered by a handful of dyno runs of the same car over time.

 

cheers

 

-Chris

Edited April 1, 2013 by cweeden