This is a joke, right?

[Bibs]

660,000 followers

126 votes

he knows how to mobilise his people!

It's not a massive swing is it. I'm sure #1 will be back overtaking soon!

Even Evo who have been cashing some large advertising cheques from Lotus recently have published a blog about Lotus losing the plot!

http://community.evo.co.uk/users/Mike-Duff/blogs/index.cfm/2011/8/16/Lotus-loses-the-plot

[erioshi]

I'm no marketeer nor hip-hop/rap fan but I think that a lot of the comments on here show a huge prejudice against such fans.  Basically, the message I've got from them is that Rap fans are unemployed, stupid wasters who will never have any money.  However, it is the current music choice of much of the youth, i.e. below 30, so it covers a large swath of the public.

I don't know this guy and his title seems a bit grand for a consultant but it may work.  Certainly having the Evora in the Alicia Keys video and the new Esprit on that web site linked to above do no harm to the marque at all.  Currently, the biggest challenge for Lotus is keeping alive and keeping in the public's eye until the new models come on stream and this should help.  No idea if it's value for money or not, though.

I agree.  While I appreciate the purity of engineering, lightweight ethos and extraordinary history of the marque, my personal view is this:

I've pretty much always considered Lotus an "old guys" car.  Most (but not all) of the owners I see are older guys (frequently graying guys) in wind breakers who look to be part of the same crowd found frequenting the vintage Jaguar, Jensen, Healy, etc. events.  Sure there's an occasional splash of autocross, trackday or racing participation, and the Elise/Exige helped, but they didn't really punch through into the the tuner & lifestyle crowd of the time.

While you may not like the fast & furious set, they have spent (and still do spend) huge money on cars.  My Evo makes a good example, as a tuner car it's a pretty mild build; was bought new and then immediately had more money put into it.  It's now about even money with an Evora and was built in a reasonably short time.  Lotus missed out on that, they weren't even on my radar.  Of course instead of measuring my car against the latest Lotus offerings, I hunt exotics, Corvettes and other fast cars on the track; unless it's built, a Lotus just doesn't measure up.  In essence Lotus, as a marque, has become the Buick of modern sports cars; lost in "FOG"

FOG = Friendly Old Guys; sports car lovers who usually can't afford a Ferrari or for whatever reason aren't interested in a shiny new Porsche.  There are real enthusiasts in the current Lotus buying crowd, but there are just as many (or possibly more) real enthusiasts in the loyal ranks of other car marques as well.  Lotus does not own the "real performance" banner, not anymore, and it hasn't for some time.  At least not in the public eye.  As a marque, Lotus is in desperate need of relevance to more than retired guys who love British cars, engineers and computer geeks.  I understand this move by Lotus.  I may not agree with their choice of spokesperson, but at it's core the move is needed; Lotus needs to find some pull in the younger market.

Rap, video games and other popular media are burned into mainstream American culture, and have been for a while; I think now the average age of a video game player over here is somewhere in the 30's.  Rap is now just as well established and popular as other forms of music like rock, alternative and country.  It's an inescapable part of of the fabric of youth, and like other forms of music it's listeners include members from virtually every social and cultural background.  Stereotyping rap listeners is no more accurate than doing the same for any other form of music.  Doctors, lawyers and even policemen listen to rap.

[Moxie]

As a marque, Lotus is in desperate need of relevance...I understand this move by Lotus. I may not agree with their choice of spokesperson, but at it's core the move is needed; Lotus needs to find some pull in the younger market.

I agree 100% with that. I also think the manner in which Swizz has been announced is so preposterous, arrogant, and most of all cynical, that it's worth every dash of ridicule and contempt it gets.

[Kimbers]

MJK got the Esprit in two Bond movies, I would like to see Bahar top that!

Indeed and several other high profile movies of the time.

Prince Michael of Kent owned an Esprit though I think.

He did and guess who handed it over to him? Funny how MJK's "Lotus Friendly" Celebs actually bought cars and drove them, while DB's "bought celebs" are given them to drive around in. I think its a pre-requiste for future celebs that they can be involved but they have to buy a Lotus first and show they are a real enthusiast!

However, it is the current music choice of much of the youth, i.e. below 30, so it covers a large swath of the public.

Currently, the biggest challenge for Lotus is keeping alive and keeping in the public's eye until the new models come on stream and this should help.

Firstly, maybe they should promote what they have got to market? Evora etc rather than blowing millions on cars not out yet?

Secondly, I have 4 kids, 2 are around 20 and 2 Teenagers and they are intelligent people. My oldest daughter is in her last year medical degree and lives with a Doctor and my youngest daughter is engaged to a Company Director who at 24 is well on his way to his first million. I would suspect these are the Lotus "Target" marketing non?

Interesting that they (their friends and everyone they know) think rap is rubbish at best and Purile at worst, catering to the most basic instincts of violence, sex and trash talk (the sort of things teenagers think is cool at a part of their life where they are confused). Of course there are exceptions, but there are much better stars to promote the brand imho (if you think they should use that marketing method at all).

FOG = Friendly Old Guys; sports car lovers who usually can't afford a Ferrari or for whatever reason aren't interested in a shiny new Porsche.

As a marque, Lotus is in desperate need of relevance to more than retired guys who love British cars, engineers and computer geeks

Doctors, lawyers and even policemen listen to rap.

Ok. firstly FOG's in many countries (UK included) are the only ones who can get insurance for a sports car or afford to buy one in the first place! If you use customer demographic (Which I used to when I was working at Honda) you'll see the reason so many middle aged guys drive sports cars. And this includes Porkers, Ferrari's etc.

I agree they need relevance, but to their target market. I'm not saying fans of Rap are all drop out unemployed angry young people, because their not but their demographic is very low on the pecking order for buying any car, yet alone a £160,000 sports car that DB is promoting (not building, promoting).

In the end this is all crap anyway! The way to promote a car is to:

1. Build what people want and people can afford

2. Advertise the product you have built.

3. Promote it through your dealer network, supporting their marketing efforts and offering them incentives to do shows, local advertising/promotions etc

4. For performance cars, make it beautiful, fast and desirable in itself. It shouldn't need "bought stars" to promote it then! Use the car to promote itself with product placement by all means.

5. The car needs to be relevant to the social and economic climate as well as pricing. Theres no point, for example, making a V12 0-60 in 3 secs with a Co2 of 500 if it will be banned in most countries because of stricter and stricter Co2 regulations.

I believe Lotus have lost their way on Marketing right now. There are less dealers than ever before to market the existing products and too much emphasis on up coming products. This together with the fact that they released the new product too early is making people doubt both the products and the company. By all means sneak peek the car while its in testing but don't launch the cars at the Paris show years before you make them!

Maybe even worse, don't say theres a facelifted model coming out while you are still building and have stock of the previous model as it won't sell!! Don't then not bring it out!!

Definately don't say you drive a Porsche live on TV when you are CEO of Lotus!!

I wish Dany would stop with all the bullshit he seems so lost in and concentrate the companies time and monies on developing new product, pushing existing products and keeping production here in Hethel. The amount spent on rubbish like this could have paid for production lines, testing and development etc etc.

[Moxie]

Are any of you gents in the UK over the age of 40 familiar with Abercrombie & Fitch? I mean what it was, not is. They were a New York City-based catalog company (also had a fantastic retail store in Midtown), selling hands-down the highest quality sporting/camping gear. Everything you could want. I still have my grandfather's and great-grandfather's A&F shotguns. "Camp Outfits," they used to call their catalog. Anyway, they made L. L. Bean gear look like garbage.

They went bust in '77, in all fairness because they didn't move with the times and relied too much on customers who were, to use my vocabulary word for the day, FOGs. Didn't do enough to attract a younger crowd or expand in to other areas the younger crowd were interested in, like all the stuff that ultimately became associated with the Red Bull gen. Then some marketing guys bought the rights to the name and turned it in to the "aspirational 'Casual Luxury' lifestyle brand" it's become, with pseudo-porn advertising to customers who value image over quality--and probably wouldn't know the latter if their lives depended on it--and don't care. And A&F doesn't sell anything related to their original catalog.

To some extent I feel like I'm watching a re-run vis a vis Lotus. Pitching the rap crowd, who on the whole clearly value image and ostentation over...well, anything. And clothing stores in London that look strikingly like (guess who?) contemporary Abercrombie & Fitch stores! In fact the swag looks like A&F stuff with Lotus logos on them.

Where's the middle ground or split that appeals to both young posers (their money's as good as anyone else's) and more long-standing enthusiasts who want to stick along for the ride (who's money's as good as any young poser's)? Again, other marques have done this quite successfully. And they should.

I really do sympathize with Dany Bahar's mandate and mission. I was in the same position once and it almost killed me. But I also think he could spend some more resources on customer retention rather than throwing everything at new customer acquisition. The whole vibe comes across as though he's actively distancing the company from previous owners and that they're a burden toward reaching his goal. Almost like Donald Rumsfeld's dopey and alienating comment about "old Europe."

[simonb]

Interesting that they (their friends and everyone they know) think rap is rubbish at best and Purile at worst, catering to the most basic instincts of violence, sex and trash talk (the sort of things teenagers think is cool at a part of their life where they are confused). Of course there are exceptions, but there are much better stars to promote the brand imho (if you think they should use that marketing method at all).

Ok. firstly FOG's in many countries (UK included) are the only ones who can get insurance for a sports car or afford to buy one in the first place! If you use customer demographic (Which I used to when I was working at Honda) you'll see the reason so many middle aged guys drive sports cars. And this includes Porkers, Ferrari's etc.

I agree they need relevance, but to their target market. I'm not saying fans of Rap are all drop out unemployed angry young people, because their not but their demographic is very low on the pecking order for buying any car, yet alone a £160,000 sports car that DB is promoting (not building, promoting).

I am not so sure that the market being targeted is without money, and if the company doing it were Range Rover or Bentley, I could see the fit. I do not think that a sportscar features in the choice of European models you would use to pull these guys out their Lincolns

[comem47]

this is all crap anyway! The way to promote a car is to:

1. Build what people want and people can afford

2. Advertise the product you have built.

3. Promote it through your dealer network, supporting their marketing efforts and offering them incentives to do shows, local advertising/promotions etc

4. For performance cars, make it beautiful, fast and desirable in itself. It shouldn't need "bought stars" to promote it then! Use the car to promote itself with product placement by all means.

5. The car needs to be relevant to the social and economic climate as well as pricing. Theres no point, for example, making a V12 0-60 in 3 secs with a Co2 of 500 if it will be banned in most countries because of stricter and stricter Co2 regulations.

I believe Lotus have lost their way on Marketing right now. There are less dealers than ever before to market the existing products and too much emphasis on up coming products. This together with the fact that they released the new product too early is making people doubt both the products and the company. By all means sneak peek the car while its in testing but don't launch the cars at the Paris show years before you make them!

Absolutely. Especially #4. If you build it and it's great they will come. If its crap, no about of BS being pushed by irrelevant stars will help. I think for Bahar it's the marketing exercise/journey that counts and not the final profit objective. He seems to want to be patted on the head as a marketing genius, rather than being the quiet force behind a successful launch. Every 5 minutes it's "look at what I'm doing". In the end what will count is "look at what you've actually done". He is telegraphing his wished punch so far in advance it may land with a soft thud by the time it's needed. I have to point back to the "shock and awe" of Apple's Macintosh 1984 Superbowl commercial as an example of precise marketing timing.

Edited August 22, 2011 by comem47

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

I've pretty much always considered Lotus an "old guys" car. Most (but not all) of the owners I see are older guys (frequently graying guys) in wind breakers who look to be part of the same crowd found frequenting the vintage Jaguar, Jensen, Healy, etc. events.

Firstly I'm a 'FOG as you put it... however I bought my first Lotus 26 ago and have been driving them pretty much ever since. I've been along to a few Lotus meets in the past and usually the other owners there are younger than me by many, many years. I don't know where you get your perceptions of Lotus demographics from but most people I see driving Elises are in their 30's, just go on SELOC as and ask around there. It's actually rather reassuring when I see another grey haired chap at the wheel of an Elise!

By all means get the younger market lusting after a Lotus, but I doubt many could afford one and even if they could the insurance premiums would be brutal. Lotus isn't like BMW/Mercedes either, people are happy to be seen in an older BMW or Merc if that's what their budgets stretch to. I doubt many of those smitten with the new Lotus range through exposed in rap videos would want to be seen in an old Elise... even if they are amazingly good cars! For the record the only way I could afford a Lotus all those years ago was by buying old... not very glamourous,( yes, it broke down a lot too! ), but the heritage of the marque was enough to pull me in, the car's spoke for themselves and I've been hooked ever since.... up to now at least!

Edited August 22, 2011 by Stirling_Villeneuve

[ramjet]

Want to know what's sad about this?

Neither Dany or Swizz give a fat rats arse what we think.

At least we are not the only ones thinking this way. The majority of comments on the evo page sound like us.

Time will tell. Maybe it'll make for a bunch of cheap second hand cars (if Proton don't pull the plug first) when these people get bored and want to 'get on' with the next trend that some multi-award winning star 'gets on'. (doesn't multi mean something different to sharing one award?)

Trouble is I'll bet they'll all be thrashed.

And for the record, I know quite a few people myself and so do my children and not one of them listens to rap either. And in my opinion, a car sells itself. An ad will get you to go and have a look. That's all it'll do.

[Bibs]

They do, or Swizzy wouldn't have mobilised his twitter army nor would he have 'Vote 5' on his website. I doubt if Dany knows although I wouldn't be surprised if it had be bought to his attention to be honest, plenty at the factory are aware of our sentiment.

[Moxie]

I think Dany cares, but reorienting the 5-year (or whatever term it is) plan he's worked up and obviously put a lot in to would be like re-steering a battleship. On the other hand, I can't come away from that Swizz "day at work" video thinking anything other than that Lotus is just a paycheck and notch in the belt of his personal franchise. His "Vote 5" campaign has everything to do with him and nothing to do with Lotus. Keeping with the tradition of models starting with "E," I fully expect him to propose the Lotus Ego.

[Gus82]

I just hope they have enough money left over to be able to pay 'Carte Blanche' to get the Esprit and Elite into the next couple of Bond movies (oh and engineer those cars properly!).

That WILL shift cars to all ages and demographics.......

Also good to see the bill boards at Norwich displaying Lotus logos during Match of the Day 2 last night.

Perhaps the other more desperate attempts to promote the company will disappear after Frankfurt when the revised cars appear and as the new models start to trickle out.

Edited August 22, 2011 by Gus82

[ramjet]

Ronin had it in his one of his posts I think:

LOTUS + SWIZZ = TAKEOVER

It's definitely not about the cars.

[basalte]

Speaking of E, I wonder what will happen about the Elephant in the Room ?

China.

The world`s largest market for new cars-14 million sales per year and rising - and Lotus are opening there in October. If they can do more than moderately well there, they technically don`t even need the rest of us. I have no idea how rap plays in China but the authorities are big on social responsibility issues so its difficult to see how talk of "pimps and hos" will help. (Maybe Swizz Beats is big in China but I doubt it!). It is also difficult to see how anyone under 35 could afford one there. It seems the concepts of "newness", "luxury"(Bling ?) and the motorsport heritage will play much better, seeing as sales of "luxury" brands there are starting to comprise a big chunk of sales overall .

[Bibs]

The Chinese car market is large, the sportscar market not so much so.

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

They do, or Swizzy wouldn't have mobilised his twitter army nor would he have 'Vote 5' on his website. I doubt if Dany knows although I wouldn't be surprised if it had be bought to his attention to be honest, plenty at the factory are aware of our sentiment.

I agree with Moxie, the 'Vote 5' thing is more about winning the pole and proving a point rather than a true representation of what Swizz can bring to that table in terms of sales. As for Dany, it's a lot easier to make brash, bold decisions with someone else's money, if things go t*ts Proton gets the bill. I don't doubt DB's highly motivated to make this work but I'm not feeling the love for what to me Lotus is about... but then I don't really want to drive anything else!

Edited August 22, 2011 by Stirling_Villeneuve

[basalte]

True, but the figures are all rising......ie

Porsche China 2009 : 9090 sales

Porsche China 2010: 14,785 sales

(Ferrari China 2009 : 220 sales

Ferrari China 2010: 300 sales)

[rogerch]

I seem to recall there was a maximum quota of about 200 units per annum, I can't remember any details so maybe, maybe not.

[ramjet]

I don't know who Dan Trent is but here you go. More opinion.

http://cars.uk.msn.com/blog/inside-track-blogpost.aspx?post=4f72193b-3e0f-47f1-933d-e6f80044e988

I seem to recall something like that now that you have said it Roger.

[Kimbers]

Dans a well respected Motoring Journalist having worked with Evo and Auto Express Magazines.

http://cars.uk.msn.com/about-us/articles.aspx?cp-documentid=149129597

And I spat my tea everywhere laughing at this :

"Oh dear Lotus, what have you done? It’s an unfortunate truth that a good number of the people who can afford to buy and run supercars are utter tools. Ferrari knows it. Which is why it bangs on about F1 and not the footballers and perma-tanned millionaires who actually buy the cars. Really – have you ever seen a group of Ferrari owners gathered together? I did once and it wasn’t a pretty sight."

Never a truer word spoken than this:

"But, please, stop this frankly pitiful celeb worship and consider the damage it’s doing to your image. When I think of Lotus I want to think of Stirling Moss, Jim Clark, Ayrton Senna and Colin Chapman. If I want to know about celebs and their bling lifestyles I'll pick up a copy of Grazia"

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

Dans a well respected Motoring Journalist having worked with Evo and Auto Express Magazines.

http://cars.uk.msn.c...entid=149129597

And I spat my tea everywhere laughing at this :

"Oh dear Lotus, what have you done? It’s an unfortunate truth that a good number of the people who can afford to buy and run supercars are utter tools. Ferrari knows it. Which is why it bangs on about F1 and not the footballers and perma-tanned millionaires who actually buy the cars. Really – have you ever seen a group of Ferrari owners gathered together? I did once and it wasn’t a pretty sight."

Never a truer word spoken than this:

"But, please, stop this frankly pitiful celeb worship and consider the damage it’s doing to your image. When I think of Lotus I want to think of Stirling Moss, Jim Clark, Ayrton Senna and Colin Chapman. If I want to know about celebs and their bling lifestyles I'll pick up a copy of Grazia"

Do think DB reads this forum?

[Kimbers]

I suspect its monitored by Marketing or someone with an interest in what enthusiasts think.

[comem47]

I suspect its monitored by Marketing or someone with an interest in what enthusiasts think.

But do you think the person monitoring has the balls to tell the emperor he has no clothes?

[Moxie]

The Chinese car market is large, the sportscar market not so much so.

Bibs, I wouldn't disagree because I don't know enough, but I do wonder if that's true. The Chinese--young Chinese--are buying up real estate in NYC like the Japanese did during their real estate feeding frenzy here in the 80s, and they're not relocating here, so I wonder if there aren't lots more flush young Chinese over there than we might think. And I can't imagine they don't want hot cars.

Also, this is priceless: "It’s an unfortunate truth that a good number of the people who can afford to buy and run supercars are utter tools." And as far as "good numbers" go, the Chinese have us all beat.

P.S. I'm starting a Swizz Beatz cover band called The Utter Toolz. No experience necessary.

Edited August 22, 2011 by Moxie

[ronin]

I know that Lotus asked me to remove my coments on www.Lotussport.org about sitting in the Mansory car the day after the Swizzle stick video shoot....The funny thing is they said it was his wifes video shoot with no mention of the Swizz..

It is pure bullshit marketing.... I can't even get Lotus to put a Logo on my car and my car has been featured in three international mags without a Lotus logo on it...

I'm a member of FOG...... Fastest Old Git....