This is a joke, right?

[WayneB]

I think what 99% of us Lotus enthusiasts are ultimately getting at is that Dany Bahar seems to be doing an excellent job of undoing any credibility, goodwill and prestige Lotus has built up over the last 60 years it has been in business.

Of course ultimately the blame must be placed at the door of whichever idiot at Proton hired him in the first place, so I am appealing to the suits at Proton HQ in Malaysia to sack Bahar and restore a compitent CEO back at the helm at Lotus.

[ronin]

You are so right.. Check out this guy I want to eat my brain after watching this crap.

pretentious |priˈten ch əs|Bullshit.

adjective

attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed

Notice his playstation driving skils and hand placement..

Edited August 24, 2011 by ronin

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

I think what 99% of us Lotus enthusiasts are ultimately getting at is that Dany Bahar seems to be doing an excellent job of undoing any credibility, goodwill and prestige Lotus has built up over the last 60 years it has been in business.

Time for a new poll... maybe DB can get his 'crew' to vote?

[Hemlock]

hum T, but wasn't there some kind of stats that no matter what people argue about on the internet, 9 times out of 10, Adolf Hitler will pop up in one form or another???

[Bibs]

It's called Godwin's Law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law

[red vtec]

No Gaga acted as VP for design of the product, Victoria Beckhams at it as well with Land Rover I think.

I don't get the anti rap talk on here, like all genres of music there are good and bad aspects and good and bad tunes.

Regarding Bahar, I get the impression he is giving Lotus the kick up the pants it has needed, raising it's profile, and it's overall image to a far wider audiance. Not doing any disrespect to those before, different times, different strokes. Sorry to say but blokes like us driving old cars, don't pay the bills.

Lotus has been the poor cousin in sportscars for far to many years, I'm glad to see it getting the overhaul it needs. Chapman died in 82, The company needs to remember him and it's rich history and play on it, but it surley needs to move on at the same time. I just hope the cars are well built and compete with what is out there. Or lotus could become another TVR.

Regarding Swiss Beats having "worked" in different brands of cars, a certain Miss Minogue promotes Lexus, but not so long ago was flogging Ford Ka's.

Edited August 24, 2011 by red vtec

[erioshi]

I think what 99% of us Lotus enthusiasts are ultimately getting at is that Dany Bahar seems to be doing an excellent job of undoing any credibility, goodwill and prestige Lotus has built up over the last 60 years it has been in business.

Of course ultimately the blame must be placed at the door of whichever idiot at Proton hired him in the first place, so I am appealing to the suits at Proton HQ in Malaysia to sack Bahar and restore a compitent CEO back at the helm at Lotus.

This I definitely agree with.  The brand definitely needed help, but I believe Proton has tossed Lotus an anchor instead of a life preserver.

[Hemlock]

Thanks Bibs.

It's called Godwin's Law.

http://en.wikipedia..../Godwin%27s_Law

[WayneB]

Regarding the comments that the Lotus brand needed a "kick in the pants" and "its profile raising", where have you guys been the last few years?

Desert island with no communication with the outsides world perhaps?

Lotuses only real problem over the last few years is that it has lacked funding, partly because Proton hasnt invested the kind of money required for the company to grow.

Lotus has always had great ideas, engineering, design, promoting and image, the problem has been obtaining adequate investment to produce the model we all have lusted after (the Esprit).

Alot of Bahars schemes are either rehashed/stolen old Lotus (MJK)ones that he takes credit for or idiotic attempts at bringing attention to the brand (Swizz Beatz, Naomi Cambell, Brian May, Bob Lutz, his "dream team" of engineers etc etc.)

He should go back to what he is good at, persuading 16 year old boys to drink overpriced mock "heath" drinks, and leave the car stuff to the car people.

[ronin]

Yah got that right I've been drinking that crap for a while and the only thing I can see sprouting from my back is hair , where are the fuqin wings ?

False promises once again from Dany..

[red vtec]

Billy I agree with you,

What I meant by "a kick in the pants and raising it's profile" was to those outside the Lotus circle, Go to a car meet only a little time ago and you still got the old crap about Loads of trouble etc, not as good as a Ferrari etc

Now your starting to get, "Oh cool it's a Lotus", "Good to see them back in F1" etc.

But only time will tell.

[simonb]

Now your starting to get, "Oh cool it's a Lotus", "Good to see them back in F1" etc.

Is that LRGP or TL? (just out of interest and on a tangent)

[red vtec]

To be honest they don't care / don't know, They just percieve it to be Lotus.

[yeller77]

Lotuses only real problem over the last few years is that it has lacked funding, partly because Proton hasnt invested the kind of money required for the company to grow.

Lotus has always had great ideas, engineering, design, promoting and image, the problem has been obtaining adequate investment to produce the model we all have lusted after (the Esprit).

Ditto. I'm still incredulous at what the previous leadership could have accomplished in all realms (product, engineering, motorsport involvement) with the orgiastic monetary commitment that Proton has lavished on the Bahar "team," had it been disgorged a few years earlier. I feel robbed.

Notice his playstation driving skils and hand placement..

I don't know. It's not about rap or hip hop per se. All I see in that video is self indulgence and self importance. Maybe Dany and Swizz do belong together...

[WayneB]

Ditto. I'm still incredulous at what the previous leadership could have accomplished in all realms (product, engineering, motorsport involvement) with the orgiastic monetary commitment that Proton has lavished on the Bahar "team," had it been disgorged a few years earlier. I feel robbed.

I don't know. It's not about rap or hip hop per se. All I see in that video is self indulgence and self importance. Maybe Dany and Swizz do belong together...

I feel robbed too mate.

Lotus almost had the MSC Esprit ready to put into production at MJKs retirement, we would be witnessing the results of all of his teams hard work by now (and drooling over it) If Bahar hadn't rejected it .

My theory is that his (Bahars)plan was to make himself look good by rubbishing all of the recent past efforts at Lotus, the Evora being the main one.

Having the MSC Esprit go into production and receiving praise was not what he wanted, he wants to be seen as the man that saved Lotus with "his" ideas, not those of a much respected and admired past CEO.

His public critism of the Evora was unbelieveably stupid, (from a marketing point of view) If the man at the top has no faith in his main product why should prospective customers?

Of course the Evora isnt a bad car at all (read Bib's blog), in fact its a testiment to the past engineerings team skill and experience that it turned out as nice as it did with the miniscule development budget they where forced to work with.

So If the Evora is a good car, surely the MSC Esprit that was designed and developed by the same team would have been just as good If not better?

Edited August 24, 2011 by billy fish

[cazna52]

I think Hitler proves a very good point in this thread. After WWII Adolf Hitler would have to have been the most hated man in the world. Yet despite this a car which he was actually actively involved with the development of, the VW Beetle, sold record numbers around the world. People buy the car, not the guy in the silly hat.

Marketing people think the public are brainless but thankfully most people will make their decisions based on how good the product is, not based on who the VP of Douchbaggery is. Hiring Swizz Beatz achieves very little. Hopefully the few people stupid enough to want to buy a car because he tells them to won't have enough money to buy a Lotus. Lotus would be better off just paying people to buy their cars, at least then they would get some of the money back.

[Kimbers]

I don't get the anti rap talk on here, like all genres of music there are good and bad aspects and good and bad tunes.

Sorry to say but blokes like us driving old cars, don't pay the bills.

I'm not Anti-rap. I'm anti the rap image rubbing off on Lotus and it becoming the Subaru Impreza of the Performance car world.

After so long in the Motor industry I can't but pull you up on your last comment. There is no money in new car sales. Even Performance cars don't make enough to pay their way. The manufacturer makes the majority of his money from aftersales and the older the car the more care it needs. Perfomance car manufacturers stand alone in that they tend to ignore their older cars, letting parts lines fall away when there is still a demand (and profit) for parts. Ford still supply parts for their 10 year old cars for example.

Lotuses only real problem over the last few years is that it has lacked funding, partly because Proton hasnt invested the kind of money required for the company to grow.

Alot of Bahars schemes are either rehashed/stolen old Lotus (MJK)ones that he takes credit for or idiotic attempts at bringing attention to the brand (Swizz Beatz, Naomi Cambell, Brian May, Bob Lutz, his "dream team" of engineers etc etc.)

I saw things first hand and never has a truer word been spoken about Lotus funding. I know MJK won't comment through professional courtesy, however I can tell you my own view (and it is my own). I remember MJK flying to KL repeatedly, especiially when he first took over, just to pay the wage bill. With the Evora brought out on a shoe string I'm amazed its as good as it is! Just think what the old team could have done with £770 million!

There is no doubt MJK set in motion many projects, The Supercharged Evora, the Roadster, the GT4, flappy paddle gearbox, racing versions of Evora, I can go on for quite a list.

Lotus almost had the MSC Esprit ready to put into production at MJKs retirement, we would be witnessing the results of all of his teams hard work by now (and drooling over it) If Bahar hadn't rejected it .

Having the MSC Esprit go into production and receiving praise was not what he wanted, he wants to be seen as the man that saved Lotus with "his" ideas, not those of a much respected and admired past CEO.

So If the Evora is a good car, surely the MSC Esprit that was designed and developed by the same team would have been just as good If not better.

I have no doubt the MSC (New Esprit) would be out now. With V8 power and a family resemblance with the Evora, it would have been awesome and harkened back to Lotus's true history and core values. I am very sad that this car never came out so you could all see how excellent it would have looked and been. Some (our very own Bibs) had seen both Evora and Esprit side by side and they looked awesome! Best thing? It was still affordable at way under £100,000.

DB talks about the history and links with Colin Chapman yet When MJK goes the last professional link to ACBC goes. All the history, nights spent locked inside design studios, Lotus core values etc goes. Who knows what Colins actual thoughts were? Who knows what Colins core values were? Who knows what Colin wanted for the company? Who knows if Colin would approve of the current situation? Why don't they use that link instead of pulling in B list celebs who know nothing about cars?

Please note this is my own comment and thoughts. This in no way comes or even implies that MJK has thought of these things.

[chandrew]

On a personal level I find it quite depressing how personal this has become. My comments on why I think this move made sense have been documented before so I won't rehash. I agree that the communication wasn't handled well (partly it seems because Lotus doesn't seem to apply targeting to it's messaging).

Lotuses only real problem over the last few years is that it has lacked funding, partly because Proton hasnt invested the kind of money required for the company to grow.

There are far more that was wrong with Lotus than just lack of investment. Let's take quality for example. My 2009 car has had more things fall off then any car I've owned. I knew this would happen before buying so went in with my eyes open. It was bought as a toy and is only on the road 5 months of the year and even then used for occasional sunday drives. I knew I could stomach fixing anything that was likely to go wrong. Much of it just seems bad design.

Or take sales. The over-riding impression here seems to be 'engineer a great car and people will buy it', and it wouldn't surprise me if this wasn't the old view at Lotus. How about the 'Europa' or even 'Evora'. Look at the data coming out of Germany, Europe's biggest car market and a country which is booming compared to most of the western world. Even Morgan seems to sell 2-3x more cars in Germany than Lotus (if you can find a German Lotus dealer as they're really rare - what effort was made to expand this?). Morgan certainly don't have bigger budgets than Lotus but they are growing and building product people want to buy.

Whatever the disjointed view of marketing on this group is, a good marketing team will work with the engineers to help them understand what the buying population want - it should be a team effort. The Europa and Evora are fundamentally good cars but maybe they've focussed on markets which really weren't there or on needs which were not the buyers' utmost priority. I have no inside knowledge but I wonder how many of the real target market were on the pre-launch testing for these cars. Good product developers test, test and test on end-users. I wonder how much research observing how competitors' clients actually used their vehicles was conducted.

There seem to have been no Evora sales in Germany in July whereas Ferrari sold 38 458s and not than many less Californias. OK, not competitors but Porsche shifted 657 911s in that month, a car which everyone knows is just about to be replaced (the German 2011 YTD figures for just the 911 are 60% more than Lotus sold globally last year).

Companies invest if they have confidence that the investment is going to pay off. One potentially can assume that Proton didn't have confidence pre-Bahar & the new team to invest and that now they do.

Edited August 25, 2011 by chandrew

[Kimbers]

Andrew. Quality was as it was because of lack on investment. I don't think you understand this direct correlation!

[simonb]

Does make me wonder if the new direction is about selling cars, or selling a car company

[Stirling_Villeneuve]

Does make me wonder if the new direction is about selling cars, or selling a car company

It seems to me as if neither. It's more about selling Lotus as a brand.

[red vtec]

Kimbers I agree with you,

I certainly do not want the Subaru image either, Good cars, bad, bad image. I do understand about the image of rap, and to be honest I do not see how Swizzy remotly links in with Lotus. The Celebs do seem to have been picked out of a phone book with a pin. I don't see Ferrari or Mclaren aligning themselves with this image.

Swizz Beatz: Never heard of him before this

Naomi Cambell: Mad as a mongoose

Brian May: Very old hat, nice chap but with his eco creds/views a weird choice

Bob Lutz: I don't even know if he is the Tennis player or the ex GM exec,

Feeder: hardly top of the pile, could not pick them out in a ID parade for all the tea in china.

What I was trying to put over is that old cars are not the life blood of a car company, never can be. Otherwise there would be no new cars. Ferrari and Porsche make a lot of money out of wannabees with clothing, watches, design studio etc which certainly helps to pay the bills and I can see why Lotus wants a cut of this. But to have this those items need to be good and well presented. Lotus never seemed to quite step up to the plate in the past mainly as you say due to funding, Image is big chunk of it these days.

I thought it was a legal requirement that Car manufacturers have to supply parts for 10 years after production?

I really do wonder what the new cars will be like, there is a lot of competition out there and it's always improving. As I said I can see the image/brand is being raised I just hope the cars are as good as the hype and it's a lot of hype... I just hope they actually get made.

[Bibs]

Feeder: hardly top of the pile, could not pick them out in a ID parade for all the tea in china.

I was instrumental in arranging the Feeder trip, their stage manager is a very good friend of mine!

[red vtec]

I was instrumental in arranging the Feeder trip, their stage manager is a very good friend of mine!

We won't hold it against you

Actually some of the Buck Rogers Lyrics are quite appt:

I think we're gonna make it

I think we're gonna save it yeah

So don't you try and fake it

Anymore, anymore

He's got a brand new car

He's got a brand new car

[Kimbers]

Feeder over swiss cheese any day!!