V8 Turbo Rebuilds

[Bibs]

Who's doing what, where are you getting them done? Any good/bad stories to share?

[mike_sekinger]

I had been getting both standard and upgraded turbos prepared by Turbo Dymanics in Dorset.

http://www.turbodynamics.co.uk/

Nothing but good things to say: Contact there is Tom Russell

[Günter]

For Germany/ continental Europe owners, maybe of interest

..it's still not not cheap, but compared with the exchange-price given by our known national Garrett-service contractor ([schlütter]http://www.turbolader.com/default.htm ) more practicable: Ramspott & Brand

http://www.turboreparatur.de/Leporello.pdf

http://www.ramspott-brandt.de/Turbo/index-english.html

(special deals on part-exchanges available on request..)

[Dave Hopwood]

I've just done the left one myself after failing prematurely ,it is less than two years old and had been" fully rebuilt" by a north west Garrett specialist.

Both the compressor wheel and turbine shaft are special to Lotus,you can source them from sites in America/Australia

The overhaul kit is available from turborebuild.co.uk Danny is the guy to speak to,he can supply the compressor wheel based on the inducer/exducer dimensions.

All the spinning parts I fitted were pre balanced (even the nut) I had the final assembly checked and it was found to be spot on with no further balancing required.

My left turbo is back on the car and working fine

You can view plenty of tutorials online showing you how it's done,the complete job has cost me around £140 that's for new everything except the housing

I was nervous about attempting the job at first ,however,as most of us pull engines apart once the turbo is on the bench and in bits it all becomes straight forward

[Winter]

I've been pleased with Turbo Technic's work.

[Guest modifiedv8engines]

As long as you take care when dismantling the turbos and mark items such as the shaft nut with a pen ( not a scriber !) add a couple of Garrett rebuild kits and they work fine.

Lightly ported mine whilst a part and installed all new parts including bearing etc

Did mine several months ago and to date nothing bad to report

Paul

[CharlieC]

Just had mine done (Recons) by R&B Wiesbaden at a very reasonable cost. Additionally new oil and water pipes from PNM (300GBP) and also new actuators. Very pleased with the result so far. The "shove" is now markedly improved!

Will upload pics to my "garage" shortly.

[jerrytlr]

Hi all, I need to get one of my turbos repaired - anybody else I should talk to other than the companies mentioned in this thread? Anybody got a standard turbo kicking around they want to sell me? ;-)

 

Cheers

 

Jerry

 

[jerrytlr]

Just had the update from the people rebuilding my turbos - I was advised to get them both done - and need new bearing housings (v expensive) and various other bits.

It seems really odd to me that the turbos need so much work after only 45,000 miles. Is there anything I should check that could have been the root cause? Oil feed perhaps?

Interested to hear your thoughts on this as as far as I know the turbos are fairly standard garrett units running pretty mild boost so I would expect them to last a decent long time.

Cheers

Jerry

[Trevsked]

Thanks for the update and be interested in how you get on and costs etc.

 

Trevor.

[roadtalontsi]

they are just t25's it really shouldnt be that expensive to have them rebuilt. Most people end up going to t28's since they are just slightly larger.
(t25 turbo is what came on mitsubishi 2.0L turbo eclipses/talons etc... 95-99 and many other cars)

[jerrytlr]

Hi another update as requested.

 

Ramspott & Brandt are doing the work, here is what they said when I asked if they knew why the turbos were in such bad condition at such a relatively low mileage.

 

Hello Jerry,

we often see such kind of bad conditioned  V8 Turbos from cars which come from the UK, maybe it depends on the weather in UK.

The problem comes not from the wear internal parts of the turbo , the problem is the rust from the outside. At one of your turbos, the clamp plate which fixes

the bearing housing into the turbine housing are completely dissolved by rust. so that the bearing housing had not the correct position and the turbine wheel blades touch the turbine housing.

If I had known that you not seen the turbos before, than I had make some pictures before I dismantle the parts.

If you contact your workshop, they should confirm the condition of the turbos.

 

The 

Cheers,

 

Jerry

[Trevsked]

Jerry,

 

I think this is quite normal from speaking to Gerald Turner. The turbos are exposed under the car to all sorts of abused and the clips holding the turbos together do rust and disappear but the upside is that the rust usually holds the turbo casings together :-).

I dare say that's where all the cost is over a T25 in other applications.

 

Trevor.

[Günter]

... R&B has done my Lotus set with good result, years ago on a regular base

 

...and after a bad experience last year with a local Turbo shop, who failed to repair one that was leaking oil,  both Lotus Turbos will now (hopefully) go for a full refurbish with aditional T28mod, done again by R&B.

http://www.imagenetz.de/th3c688f1f/BILD2226.JPG   http://www.imagenetz.de/thc38fa6da/BILD2240.JPG

 

 

 

Now I need to do at least around 1800km / week ..all in salt and water, in this winter season. ( As I'm on a placement in southern Germany, and only have the Esprit on the road for those long runs)

http://www.imagenetz.de/th802b4436/BILD2646.JPG http://www.imagenetz.de/th0ad1142a/BILD2647.JPG

This means there was a need for a fix-up in the meantime.

So if you have problems, and need a fast solve for it -go to the scrapyard, or Ebay ..look out for SAAB 9000 TB2531type  ..I've postet something about it in the V8 section. (parts interchange)

As a temporarly DIY replacement option I've a "used" CHRA unit in use, from a SAAB. But keep in mind that there exist at least 3 different types of tubine wheels, with slight wheel differences, but all with the same shaft size. Two versions of the turbine housing are available for TB2531 turbos, with those 3 stud face, as typical for SAAB:

One does have a 'cast on' mounting point for a heatshield, directly on the hot turbine housing -and one does have a 'bold on' mounting bracked for the wastegate, on the colder compressor housing side.. with additional mounting point for a head-shield.

The internals (complete CHRA section) run in both turbine housing versions.

Edited February 12, 2014 by Günter

[hyteck9]

I'm doing my research on turbos.

 

disclaimer: I am no expert!

 

That said... I have done all the math and it looks like the new GTX2867R is the way to go.

It sounds like it even uses the T25 internal gate housing.

That "IS" what the V8 Lotus has correct?

Does anyone know if it is .64 or .86  A/R ?

[roadtalontsi]

you have to be careful with how aggressive you go on the turbo's without a standalone and custom tune. gtx2867r is almost 20yr newer technology. billet and ball bearing. Thats going to flow WAY more than a regular t28. The a/r has to do with the volume of the exhaust housing. The smaller the number the quicker spool but dies off topend. the larger the laggier but tend to still flow better topend. Considering this motor relies on the turbos so heavily and doesnt have cams setup for 6krpm+ i'd say .64 a/r is the way to go. The other issue you'll run into is the billet turbos are so much more efficient they dont want to run on 8-10psi using internal gates. You'll most likely need external gates so they can control boost effectively.  Yes it has t25 internal gated turbos. 

This probably why most just got with regular t28s since they are just a hair bigger with not a ton more power potential. Add just a touch of lag but can move air more efficiently. Not to mention the transmission needing some upgrading to handle it.

[hyteck9]

Thank you for the feedback Roadtalon,

 

I agree with your conclusion that the .64 would fit the engine better.  Smoother boost condition throughout the operation of the RPM range is what I am looking for.  I have written new fuel maps and tunes for my Subaru in the past, so I hope to be able to do the same with the Lotus without too much trouble.  I did see a thread someplace that a new camshaft is available for these cars, but I have often wondered , perhaps out of ignorance, how much a cam really aids in a forced induction engine.  Of all the upgrades available, a cam would be my first choice in a normally aspirated engine, but last in a forced induction engine. 

 

I am looking for a better street experience, not a racetrack thrasher.  I will be upgrading the transmission for reliability's sake, but don't expect to be launching it much.  Even if the tranny can take launching it, I'm not sure the axles will.  As for the turbos, as mentioned I did the math, ( I created a dynamic spreadsheet for all the variables to be considered ) and out of curiosity I also plugged in the specs of the original OEM turbo.  It a...  um..  really isn't that great.  I will assume it was the best available at the time and leave it at that.  Air/water intercooling would be amazingly helpful to this power plant, but it looks like a tough job.  

Soooo much heat everywhere in this car's engine bay. 

[t70]

Hence this solution:

IAT's never get over 52 degrees Celsius at 35 degrees ambient. the system is HIGHLY effective.

[roadtalontsi]

nice setup, anymore pics or details. Did you add additional radiators and run the intercooler circuit entirely separate of the engine coolant circuit? I personally like air to air intercoolers but there's just not a whole lot of room to make that work on the esprit as Im sure you know and concluded.

To further comment on you said - camshafts are very important in n/a or turbo. The camshaft establishes what rpm the power is being made. Since you mentioned coming from subaru's this is a great example. Ever notice how few TRUE 500whp+ subaru are out there? look at evo's cracking 1000whp somewhat regularly. All the subi's in that group are running cams. Depending on what you are trying to accomplish and how toned down the cams are for power out put or emissions is the real question. I dont know anything about the cams in these cars nor have i seen aftermarket ones for the v8. Even with stock cams if these cars are making 450hp on t25's with the race chip, 600hp would be no problem with 2 of the gtx turbos, 800 would probably be tapped out. On that note anyone know whos making the most power on a v8 esprit? I know they arent drag cars and anything over 500 is really quite useless in a car like this but im sure someones gotten crazy. On a side note with my supra I changed the cams to some very large ones. I first hand witnessed and experienced the power change. I lost 40 lbft of torque at the wheels, and gained 50whp and a powerband that held strong past 8krpm vs dropping around 6krpm. Sure losing torque doesnt sound like a good thing, however it actually helped traction out drastically. The inline 6 3.0L in the supra is gutless anyways without boost it really didnt hurt my feelings losing low end torque.

[t70]

Johan managed to make something like 735whp with his esprit. He used Propane and Nitrous to get there. Since you asked about the intercooler system.. you may want to read the thread I did on it.

You will find all the answers about radiators etc.. And.. I do run a full stand alone. I can help you with a base tune if you decide to go with the same system -- ViPec V88. I suspect you and I should talk by phone. Feel free to message me for my phone number.

Here's the link:

http://www.thelotusforums.com/forums/topic/19113-custom-twin-chargecooler-setup/

[t70]

Oh... and the Horsepower and torque ratings I acquired were 430rwhp and 430rwhtq.. however, we had to tune it back to that. We actually spiked the dyno at 450rwhtq and 17psi. The car would easily run 20psi on the stock turbos and would thus, likely be putting down closer to 500 ft-lbs. We will see what I can achieve with the latest build... (There are now custom Carillo rods and Custom JE billet pistons...)

Oh.. and upgraded turbos (I bought the car used, with these turbos, so I am unsure of their spec.. but I know they flow a lot more as they are able to maintain 22psi at 6500 rpm, which the stock ones most certainly cannot do.)

[hyteck9]

Good information here guys, thanks.

There was a YELLOW v8 that was built up to race some years back over here in the states.  Totally done up, balanced and blueprinted, race grade everything...  It did very well.  Here is a link of its sale page  http://www.kumberamotors.com/cars.htm?l=s&id=241  The owner died shortly after it sold and stiffed (pun intended) the salesman his commission in the process.

 

With these engines running 8-1 compression they should be able to run 17 psi - 20 psi without a care in the world if it is cooled.  I'm not sure I would want to try 20psi un-cooled.  That would be hard to achieve reliably on a number of levels. 

 

Mark T-C,

  Did your 20psi require aftermarket injectors or fuel pump?  I haven't researched what the OEM limits are yet...

[roadtalontsi]

Awesome thread guys. Im a long ways away from doing anything that fun to mine but cooking up ideas in the meantime. Thanks for all the links. If you do need to get injectors i'd highly recommend injector dynamics. I have the id1000's in my supra. they also make 1300s (new and rated for all fuels) 2000 and 750 cc injectors. A set of 8 1000's would easily beable to take you past 1000hp worth of fuel. Most of the fast supra's are either on race gas or e85 now. e85 is great stuff for the money but requires about 35% more fuel to accomplish the same, it runs alot cooler and can make more low end torque than race gas. The draw back is how corrosive it is. You'll need anodized parts, lines and injectors that can handle it. You also dont want to let it sit more than a few days. Hows the oiling system on the v8's? pretty stout? any trick oil coolers? i think i saw one running off of a roof scoop on the gt1 replica.  Lets try and keep this thread going it's awesome.

also to Mark t-c is your 2002 orange or yellow? hard to tell from the pic

Edited April 2, 2014 by roadtalontsi

[t70]

Good information here guys, thanks.

There was a YELLOW v8 that was built up to race some years back over here in the states.  Totally done up, balanced and blueprinted, race grade everything...  It did very well.  Here is a link of its sale page  http://www.kumberamotors.com/cars.htm?l=s&id=241  The owner died shortly after it sold and stiffed (pun intended) the salesman his commission in the process.

 

With these engines running 8-1 compression they should be able to run 17 psi - 20 psi without a care in the world if it is cooled.  I'm not sure I would want to try 20psi un-cooled.  That would be hard to achieve reliably on a number of levels. 

 

Mark T-C,

  Did your 20psi require aftermarket injectors or fuel pump?  I haven't researched what the OEM limits are yet...

The car you found is running the Lotus Prepared By Claudius intercooler system. It's a gorgeously designed system, but it has couple of down falls. The first is that the intercoolers aren't protected from the rest of the engine bay heat. The second is that the intercooler radiator is actually an oil cooler and it flows coolant too quickly to keep the fluid cold.

As for the 20psi.. It was an overboost situation caused by using too high of a spring rate on the wastegate capsules.. it actually had resulted in total engine destruction. Luckily, it only happened once to me and I immediately changed out the capsules for Forge aluminum units. In case you're wondering, the spring rate was at 10 psi.. The boost control map simply can't compensate for that high of a spring rate.

Awesome thread guys. Im a long ways away from doing anything that fun to mine but cooking up ideas in the meantime. Thanks for all the links. If you do need to get injectors i'd highly recommend injector dynamics. I have the id1000's in my supra. they also make 1300s (new and rated for all fuels) 2000 and 750 cc injectors. A set of 8 1000's would easily beable to take you past 1000hp worth of fuel. Most of the fast supra's are either on race gas or e85 now. e85 is great stuff for the money but requires about 35% more fuel to accomplish the same, it runs alot cooler and can make more low end torque than race gas. The draw back is how corrosive it is. You'll need anodized parts, lines and injectors that can handle it. You also dont want to let it sit more than a few days. Hows the oiling system on the v8's? pretty stout? any trick oil coolers? i think i saw one running off of a roof scoop on the gt1 replica.  Lets try and keep this thread going it's awesome.

also to Mark t-c is your 2002 orange or yellow? hard to tell from the pic

I agree with Injector Dynamics. That's what I'm using in mine. They basically buy Bosch Injectors, machine them slightly and re-sell them. Bosch is one of the best injectors available. I run 735cc injectors in mine and the neutral throttle and idle control are excellent. The car actually runs smoother with these injectors and the stand-alone than it did with the factory ecm.

As for the color.. My car is Orange.