Forum policy regarding dealers/traders etc

[Bibs]

In light of recent discussions I thought best to identify and clarify my (the forums) official standpoint on dealers/parts suppliers/indepedent mechanics etc.

One of the great things about the internet, and in particular, forums is that they allow mass communication. Communication of experience is an excellent thing as it allows others to benefit from our own experience, be it good or bad but to have 20/20 hindsight as it were.

If you've had a good service from a supplier, great. Of course we all want to hear about it and will no doubt send some business their way. They did well, they deserve it and we know that based on past experience we should be ok!

If you had not such great service, we want to hear that too. That means that the dealer may well have a chance to address their service which is to all of our benefit and if not then we know to steer clear of them (see what I did there!) until they do improve which is again to our benefit as a whole.

If your personal experience in contrary to what some has posted and you feel justified in doing so, please feel free to air your views.

Please, for the benefit of everyone concerned, be sure about what you post. If you order a grommet an it arrives next day then that's good but perhaps not enough for a strong reco'. If you've had a bad experience once, that's not enough to justify caning someone's business unless you've given them the chance to make amends and they clearly haven't or if you've consistently had bad service over a period of time (more fool you for still using them!).

Please be aware that comments you make can be considered liablous unless justified and that the forum as an entity is entirely impartial. We will not back you up should the supplier not be happy. We're not asked to, needed to, required to nor can we afford to be on your side (the team of lawyers are all on holiday). Anything you post is your reponsibility entirely, please bear that in mind.

[Kimbers]

If I may add?

There's a saying in the motor industry. "Bad news travels fast, good news doesn't travel" it's true and, to some degree, here as well. It took a complaint about a parts dealer to prompt some members to mention that they had always had good service/experience from them.

Maybe we are all guilty of being quick to moan and slow to praise? I personally have not read, since being here, many posts (unless in reply to another) just saying "Wow ordered a part and it arrived as promised!" we don't do it because it's what we expect. I for one would love a seperate section on the forum specifically for positive feedback.....something e-bay has actually got right!

Edited July 20, 2006 by Kimbers

[Jonathan]

I've had BAD issues with 2-3 suppliers / service items but not decided to air them becuase I know MANY MANY poeple have good experiences with them and it wont make a blind bit of difference other than I'll get 30-40 replies with "I've had no problems with them"

IMO the praise and the knowing you've done things right is when ppl keep coming back to you for parts/services.

Plus you get positive feedback when people say "which parts supplier shall I use".

This goes hand in glove to the bad press imo

I'd also love to see a place without moaning (hang on lemme think on that....) but it's always going to be there because you'll always have some degree of bad service or rip offs.

The most IMPORTANT example is a company called UK Sports Cars imo, I've read so many bad / questionable things about them and when I went to have a looksie I also came away understanding the impression - due to the action of people in the group a lot of owners and would be owners have been steered away from a money pit and/or a really bad Esprit experience.

When companies act like this in BAD faith they deserve to get crucified on forums. I know it's impossible to keep 100% of the poeple 100% happy 100% of the time (which is why I'm not in this business) but in the same way you have to factor for that and have disaster scenarios planned for.

I always get the impression becuase it's a Lotus and an Esprit, owners are often taken for a ride. Its our hard earned (well not in my case) money they're playing with and imo if they mess up without a reasonable excuse they're fair game.

[Tentenths]

Agree with what has already been said. But I'd like to amplify one of the points made by Bibs - if you do experience a problem please initially raise the issue with the organisation concerned before resorting to a 'public hanging'.

Most genuine businesses cherish their hard fought reputations and will bend over backwards to try to rectify a mistake or problem... if they know what it is.

Edited July 20, 2006 by Tentenths

[esprit350]

I agree with James, nothing worse than finding out that you ( supplier) has a problem via a third party (ie forum) First thought would be why didnt he /she come back to me before airing this in public..

[Guest Chelsea Martyn]

Bibs

Perhaps you could have a page or listing of these bodies with a star rating (like on e-bay) whereby a no star rating would be self explanatory without the liable stuff, and really good professionals would have power seller star ratings etc..

Just a thought

[Bibs]

If we added the companies into the Lotus Links section of the forum they can be 'star' rated in there...

http://www.glcforum.com/esprit/forums/index.php?act=links

Any good?

[oneshot]

That would be something like this then?

Dealer ratings

[dodgy]

thats great hmmm, no sjsportscars

[Mark Blanchard]

Wow, that

[Guest Chelsea Martyn]

A compilation of Bibs' and Oneshot's formats would be good.

I think that if the format allowed comments like Oneshots format does then it would need vetting or the liable monster creeps back in.

Maybe a list of what forum members have used each listed professional could be displayed which would link to a pm message, that way members could 'speak freely' about experiences without putting the open forum at risk.

[matk]

Are we in danger of overcomplicating things and re-inventing the wheel? Most rating systems I've encountered are mainly used by people complaining. They are usually skewed to bad service. In my case as a regular forum viewer I am already fairly confident of who I can and can't take my car to. E.G. I would always use PNM for my servicing but have seen previous bad comments about them. They haven't put me off, I simply make up my own mind. The information is already displayed in all the past threads and can be readily searched on.

Would most "Esprit Lovers" be more interested in doing this? Would less scrupulous individuals try and tilt rating against garages they've had previous negative experiences that were their own fault?

I agree with the previous comment where I think we should encourage people to go back to the provider initially rather than go flaming on a forum straight away. If I recall Roger had an exhaust problem which I believe was resolved satisfactorily after working with the garage, but the initial situation was posted immediately here. I'd be interested in Roger's input here after some reflection as to whether this was the right way to go?

Just my 2p not looking to convert anyone, just put a point of view.

Regards

Mat Kutub

1979 S2

[kccparis]

Would most "Esprit Lovers" be more interested in doing this? Would less scrupulous individuals try and tilt rating against garages they've had previous negative experiences that were their own fault?

We could solve this by giving an EBAY style type rating!

Positive and negative comments combined plus it gives the supplier the right to counter remark! Which would make posters think twice before commenting in the first place!

Just my 2pence worth

[Jonathan]

It's a good idea but I think in a tight nit community like this you're all going to end up with them all being 4-5 stars which kinda defeats the point.

As what happened to me, once in a blue moon something bad happens to you which is pretty unique from an otherwise reputable company which again is why I never went loopy on the forums about my prob because I just got unfortunate and TBH the vendor does a lot of support for the Esprit.

Most, if not all, of the UK main players have ties with people on here and LEW so they are by and large going to be good vendors because too many complains and Kato would pull them from the site + word travels quickly in a tight nit community like this - can't speak much for overseas but.

Of all the parts I have bought and work done on my cars I've only ever had 2 problems from main players where I would consider myself as being treated badly - pretty sure apart form the odd 1 or 2 that goes for across the board.

Dunno might be wrong but thats my opinion.

[Evil_Dr_Fish]

Mumsnet are in the firing line...

BBC News Story

Worth keeping an eye on...

Remember - Slander is prosecutable... Fair Comment is not!

EG...

"Here are my experiences with SportsCars vendor 'X' and I am now very unhappy..." is fair comment!

"SportsCars Vendor 'X' is a bunch of crooks" will get you a writ!

I have had to edit someone's post along these lines very recently myself so be careful guys!

YOU don't want to get sued and we don't want LEF to get shut down!

[Paul C]

The specialist i deal with the most is Steve Williams, i'm 100% happy

with his work and have recommended him to anyone that asks.

Now this guy has...

An Esprit

a Carlton

a 340R

an Elise

a Europa

some Elans

his race car

his business

And home life.

Between his various Loti he is in several clubs and forums,

then he has his race calendar, then his always busy business.

Just one example of a dealer/specialist in the Lotus circle, and

i imagine others are just as busy. Point is, the forum members

have the time to drum up multiple page threads about companies,

but the businesses concerned don't really have the same amount

of time to reply (if they had the time to read it in the first place),

It would be as productive as writing them an angry/happy letter

and posting it with no address on the envelope.

If we have any policy it should be this:

If something breaks on a Saturday/Sunday (as it always does),

then DONT name and shame, create a four page thread, and

tell the whole world BEFORE you get the chance to speak to the

guy on the monday and give him a chance to sort it out.

[karmavore]

How about a complaints exchange program?

If a UK dealer is a scumbag let one of us Yanks know and we'll say so. We all know the US policy on extradition to the UK! Ha ha ha...

If a US dealer is bad we'll have Lince post comments from Columbia. They