Lotus in the post DB era

[Gus82]

In case there is confusion about my post were I mentioned the "original 'new' Esprit project", it was with reference to the cancelled MJK era project that was to be spun off the Evora set, not the Dany Bahar era car. £80,000 sounds about right for that project considering the Evora originally started at just under £50,000.

Of course anything developed recently will be in line with the £123,000 price quoted by Bibs and I assume that includes a unique Lotus developed engine and gearbox. I have no idea what the projected price of the latest Esprit project would be if they used a bought in engine instead.

[TBD]

The quintessence of all I'm reading is that DRB have recognized the importance and value of Lotus Engineering, but are only half-heartedly commited to Lotus cars.

Clearly scrapping the Esprit would have meant a major financial write-off and a full pay-out ot the banks that provided the loans. So DRB has no option other than to continue. But it should be equaly evident that the only way Lotus can ever become profitable will require a major upscale in production volumes as conceived in the DB-plans. The Esprit most likely won't reach those numbers, as a stand-alone model it will be facing the toughest competition in a tight market dominated by Porsche, Ferrari and Lambo (i.e. VW and FIAT). In fact going head-to-head against the McLaren MP4-12C is going to be hard fight to win.

I still expect DRB to sell Lotus as soon as they are in a position to do so without losing too much money. But, I'm still convinced the future for Lotus is bright as long as all of the big carmakers have a vested interest in Lotus Engineering.

Of course, DRB could always decide to bring out a new Proton Elise, developed by Lotus Engineering and rebranded as Lotus for the non-Asian markets.

[Moxie]

The Exige S will always remain a specialty car, not a car that will open up new markets.

I know what you mean, but my dealer is getting 5-10 calls a week about the Exige S. Call it a call a day. They never even got calls like that about the Evora, so I think they could move quite a few of them here.

Moxie, is this not an issue which could be raised with your legislators rather than private enterprise? They're the ones who make up the prohibitive and often bullshit rules. Smart airbags indeed!

Honestly I don't know if it's primarily a Federal safety issue or a California emissions issue. I assume the former. Is the Exige S not reinforced with steel in the rear like the Evora? I think that was the biggest engineering concession they made for US safety standards--that waffled steel in the rear sub-assembly for the 50mph rear impact test.

[Kimbers]

In case there is confusion about my post were I mentioned the "original 'new' Esprit project", it was with reference to the cancelled MJK era project that was to be spun off the Evora set, not the Dany Bahar era car. £80,000 sounds about right for that project considering the Evora originally started at just under £50,000.

Of course anything developed recently will be in line with the £123,000 price quoted by Bibs and I assume that includes a unique Lotus developed engine and gearbox. I have no idea what the projected price of the latest Esprit project would be if they used a bought in engine instead.

You aren't far off Angus. If I remember right the press releases had the Evora starting price at £47000 and the Esprit at £75000, but I also remember that changing due to development costs to circa £85,000.

[richardvg]

To bring out a completely new car yet based on existing chassis and engine would make sense .The Esprit should be seen as the ultimate.

I hereby stick to my original plan ...bring out an Elan with all the modern looks etc (as per pics) ....base it on the existing Exige.

You will still have die hard Exige,Evora fans and an entirely new gen of supporters with the newbie.

Once it proves to be a hit ,charge what you want for the Esprit ..

[Exploded]

or do a facelift Evora and call it Elan...

The Evora is a fail in marketing terms, (a fantastic car to drive though) but the Evora exist for over 4 years now and when I took one to a family party a few weeks ago, nobody had ever heard about it, let alone seen one... There never was a real specific (worldwide) marketing campaign for it, sadly.

[Bibs]

Its 3 the month after next, first cars are are soon to be MOT'd.

[Exploded]

Yep, I miscounted a year but it doesn't change the fact, it was not properly marketed, imo.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Exploded

[Bibs]

5 car of the the year awards soon after launch was pretty solid marketing. Its not marketing which has been the Evora's problem, IMO. People complain the early quality was an issue and it's price, not it's marketing.

Anyone who knows cars, reads the motoring press or enjoys motorsport will have heard of the Evora. If they've not, they probably don't know what an R8 or X-Bow is either!

[noe]

But that being said 'R8' for those non car people will be thought of as 'isn't that the sporty Audi?' ........ You then think they at least know the R8 when they are actually picturing in their head an Audi TT

And an x-bow they'll think is something that just fires arrows!

[Tallic]

All I know is I was told by my dealer who was told by Lotus USA or Group Lotus (not sure which) that it would cost $6M to get the car certified for the US, including everything--safety, emissions, etc. So it's certainly doable. Not sure how many they'd need to sell to make up the wonga, but over a few years on that platform I'd think it would be worth it in the bigger marketing picture, particularly since the car is so strong. All it's doing right now is pissing off American enthusiasts--and probably a fair number of potential marque converts--that they can't drive one at Sebring, Mid-Ohio, or Lime Rock, but they could in Cyprus, Estonia, and Oman.

you are so correct.

[alan]

But that being said 'R8' for those non car people will be thought of as 'isn't that the sporty Audi?' ........ You then think they at least know the R8 when they are actually picturing in their head an Audi TT

Thats because Audi is a big company & all their cars look the same. I would guess that near 100% of the "driving enthusiasts" who make up the traditional market for Lotus know about the Evora.

The issue is that the Evora breaks Lotus into new markets (or ones they have not been in for a while) so its not on the radar of someone looking say for an Audi, BMW or Merc.

[TBD]

Audi spends a few hundred millions on advertising every year (more than Lotus overall annual revenues) and places the R8 very prominently in those ads to demonstrate the brands technology excellence. So, even if you don't follow the motoring press you just can't avoid seeing the R8.

By comparison Lotus doesn't even place ads in those motor press issues where the Evora wins a test. So its no wonder that potential new customers never recognize the Evora as an option.

[Kimbers]

The issue is that the Evora breaks Lotus into new markets (or ones they have not been in for a while) so its not on the radar of someone looking say for an Audi, BMW or Merc.

Good point Alan and it should be pointed out that it was undermarketed by DB who seemed intent on marketing "His" future products. At least when he first started at Lotus.

A good friend of mine in America who runs a dealership told me that DB spent more on one Hollywood party than the whole marketing budget of Lotus USA in a year!!

[Exploded]

Well the only publicity Bahar knew about was Motorsport...

As I said there never was real big campaign for the Evora.

[dodgey_rog]

DB spent more on one Hollywood party than the whole marketing budget of Lotus USA in a year!!

What a c**t!

I must admit though, i did like the new cars, his plan to show them all at once was a dick move. It sounds like this new guy has a similar business style to your old man Kimbers?

[Moxie]

A good friend of mine in America who runs a dealership told me that DB spent more on one Hollywood party than the whole marketing budget of Lotus USA in a year!!

Point of clarification: The catering bill alone was more than Lotus USA's annual marketing budget. Fact.

[fmxa]

It was a great party though!

[Iconic Ride]

OK, a bit of a sigh of relief that the "New Esprit" is apparently destined to be produced afterall. How could it have been otherwise? Lotus without an Esprit would be like Ferrari without a 250 GT. It just isn't done. Well, actually I guess Ferrari didn't get the memo, but I digress.

Seems from a number of articles that the "in house" V8 is a dead horse, so to speak. Breaks my heart. While I can understand (to an extent) the economics of such a decision in the current environment, a great deal of the Esprit's heritage is inextricably bound up with its bespoke powerplant. Lifting the hatch and seeing LOTUS embossed on the valve covers is part and parcel of the image intended to be projected with the purchase of the marque's flagship "supercar." Is the car now to be marketed in a Pininfarina-ish way as "Esprit, body by Lotus?" Detracts from the complete package somewhat, me thinks.

Hope springs eternal that Group will find some sort of compromise showcasing their engineering prowess by, at minimum, adding the expected Lotus touch with significant modifications to a "bought motor" in sufficient degree as to bear the marque's name somewhere on the resultant lump, in spirit if not in reality. It's essentially what they've done with the rest of the lineup, with reasonable success.

Still, given the amount of time, money and effort already put into the new V8's development, a sadness envelopes me that such prodigious work should be shelved. Wonder if the bolt pattern might match my current chassis? I can be stubborn as a mule, so why not drive one?

[TBD]

Hopefully the Esprit won't end up with a junk gearbox like the Evora. Lets hope for a decent drivetrain from Audi (4.2 ltr. V8 or such)

[bingoking]

Sad that the other cars have been binned but glad that it looks like the Esprit is going ahead. Makes the chois much easier.

Shame about the V8 engine though.

I wonder what they will do with the engines that are running about Norfolk in the Dancing Donkeys!!!

[Exploded]

Lotus should have been more clever and developed a light weight 6 cylinder engine, with a displacement from let's say a 1.5 up to a 2.2. In 1986 1.5 V6 engines already had over 1200 BHP. I agree they didn't last long and had big turbo lag way back then. But we're almost 20 years further in time and tools and materials have developed.

If Lotus had invested in such a product, they would have found many other companies to sell their engine to and could divide costs. The big manufacturers are not waiting for a 4.8 V8 these days with high emissions.

[mdavies]

Hope springs eternal that Group will find some sort of compromise showcasing their engineering prowess by, at minimum, adding the expected Lotus touch with significant modifications to a "bought motor" in sufficient degree as to bear the marque's name somewhere on the resultant lump, in spirit if not in reality. It's essentially what they've done with the rest of the lineup, with reasonable success.

Hear, hear. That's something I see as deeply important. And it needs to be modification real enough for a strong whiff of the Lotus spirit. Leaving aside constraints imposed by whichever engine supplier - I assume some, to protect themselves - it's not just a matter of special cam covers etc.

Re the Evora engine, for me it's truly important to be able to say that Lotus has worked on it, and I mention that some Toyota engine people, when shown the developed version, found it hard to believe that no internal changes had been made. (Absolutely certain I have read that from an authoritative source, but cannot recall it. Help?) Intake/exhaust systems will be special naturally, but more than that is needed. IMO, the fact of Lotus modification is even more important than whatever actual performance gained. I suggest that few people discuss the Ford Duratec engine in their BAC Mono; no, Cosworth will be the name mentioned. And proudly highlighted on the car, too! (This example does not conflict with my contention - Cosworth embodies it's own spirit and is not a car manufacturer.)

Naturally, there are costs. But given the choice between something marketed as a new Lotus at £85K with an excellent, but known to be essentially standard, third party engine, or an alternative at £95K with an engine that unquestionably bears a Lotus stamp, I would buy, and bet my marketing budget, on the higher priced product. In that price range I will only pay for a Lotus, not a cross-breed, however "good".

[TBD]

A key point in buying a third-arty engine is that you generally buy it complete including its warranty. That's what makes this so attractive in the first place, but it alsomeans that once you start modifying the engine you lose that warranty (just like w do when we start tuning it) and everything gts much more expensive. Also, you won't have access to the design and manufacturing tools used in bulding the engine, so that your mod's get more difficult. So, if Lotus does decide to use a third party engine it will be hard to add much Lotus to it. If I remember correctly, even the Evora S only exists because the supercharger was already available on an Australian Toyota model.

To date all the stuff about cancelation of the in-house V8 seems to be from the rumour mill. I haven't seen anything confirmed by Lotus and changing the powerplant at this stage in the development will certainly delay the launch beyond 2014.

I will keep hoping for the in-house engine as long as Wolf Zimmermann is still on the webpage as CTO. Can't imagine him staying on board if they kill his baby.

[Kimbers]

I wonder what they will do with the engines that are running about Norfolk in the Dancing Donkeys!!!

A little bird tells me that they the engine wasn't as far into development as everyone was lead to believe. In fact of the 3 mules only 1 was running and that not well.

So I don't think its a huge issue its been cancelled.

Trev, woulda liked to have been to one of DB's parties just so I could say I was there