Door Panel Removal

[MalcolmS]

Hi,

Earlier this year I bought an 1982 Esprit Turbo and I have just had the first problem....

When I got home on Friday afternoon the driver window didn't shut properly. Its stuck at half way and won't go up or down. Its not the fuse as I can hear the motor try, so something is jammed.

This morning I have tried to fix it but failed at the first hurdle! Can't get the inner door panel off.

I have undone the 3 screws behind the door handle but the panel is still fixed firm and it's not clear why to a novice like myself. There don't seem to be any other screws lower down the door.

How do you remove this panel?

Cheers,

Malcolm

[Chris Southam]

On my '79 S2 the door cards have a plastic trim around the door handle - loosen the three screws within the door handle and then pull out the plastic trim top and bottom. Once that's done there's four screws, two either end of the door card and then it's a case of passing the handle through the door card.

Probably completely changed by '82 so may be no help at all!

[ramjet]

Pics may help some of us to assist you Malcolm.

And welcome to TLF.

You should also duck over to the Introductions thread and say hi over there.

[irox]

Probably of no help whatsoever; on my '98 the door panel wraps around the fiberglass door core at the bottom where there are two screws on the left and right which cannot be seen unless you tuck your head under the door and look up.

Cheers

[Choppa]

On my 1986 S3 the door card removal is as Chris describes but there is only 1 screw at each end securing the door card to the inner door frame, roughly on the same level as the inner door handle.

Slewthy had a thread on here recently where he described how he sorted out his window lift mechanism, use the forum search and you'll find it, should help you get things sorted.

[MalcolmS]

To everyone that has taken the time to reply, thank you very much.

Attached are pictures of the door where I can find no further screws to undo!!

Choppa, I am no computer whiz and have not been able to find the Slewthy thread you refered to. Do you remember the title of the thread or is there some way of searching for threads started by Slewthy?

Thanks,

Malcolm

[Choppa]

http://www.thelotusforums.com/forums/topic/22404-1986-s3-na-project/page__st__220#entry418236

You've got the one at the front, but on the second picture mine has a screw roughly at the same level as the lamp It looks like you've got the inner door handle released so if there really isn't a screw anywhere else it should lever off from the lower edge, take care! Is it possible that a PO may have used something like sealer to hold the rear part of the card in place?

[slewthy]

Hi Malcolm,

I didnt start a thread on this - thats why you cant find it! I just mentioned the window lift in another thread - my resto one - post 231 on page 12 to save you searching.

Your door card does seem odd. You seem to have removed the front single screw and the one at the back? The door handle also slackened off and expensive plastic edges removed - yes?

The only other thing that I can think of is the solution I can see on mine - someone ?original? had fitted some foam strip to the underside of the door moulding so that the door card fitted more snuggly. It might even have been double sided stuff.

When I first removed mine, there was a definite amount of force needed to overcome this. In otherwords, pull the bottom of the card from under the door moulding. Dont try the top - its hooked over the free edge of the door.

My door is off at the moment, cardless so if you need any pics as you progress, let me know.

[MalcolmS]

Choppa, Slewthy, thanks again for the replies.

Seems clear this is stuck on in a none standard way so i will just have to use force to pull the bottom away.

I'll leave it for Monday now as the football starts soon. Will let you know how i get on.

Thanks,

Malcolm

[Lex Templar]

Hi Malcom,

My car is away at the moment so can't have a proper look, however looking at your door it is a little different to mine I think comparing photos. Note screw and seems to be more overlapping leather at joins.

Here is my door.

By lex_templar at 2012-07-02

Edited July 2, 2012 by Lex Templar

[skiing]

I would say that your car has been re-trimmed and that is why you cannot see the screws - mine does not have them either (and was re-trimmed) I remove the three screws hidden behind the plastic square door release. I then very carefully, slide the two halves of the plastic trim which surround the metal door release mechanism upwards and downwards (they divide in the middle). I then lever the door card off the door from the bottom, carefully pushing the release mechanism through the door card. You need to be careful that there are now wires which you can snag / pull out.

[MalcolmS]

Ta Da.... door panel is now off!!!

As you all said... it was just a case of pulling it off from the bottom. Was a tight fit but easy enough once i got past the fact there were no screws.

Now the reason i wanted to remove the door panel was to fix the jammed electric window. I can see that the glass has come out of the guides in the bowels of the door.

I'm sure I will be back with some questions but I'll have a go first and see how far I get. I do have slewthy's description as below..

I have now rebuilt the drivers door and window. I fitted the window lift mod, routing power to the motor direct from the battery, controlled by 2 relays from the original wires. Works nicely BUT the key to get the window to run quicky was actually in the spacers for the frame and the channel guide. Essentially, there were too many spacers in the channel guide fixing, to the extent that the window was being bowed as it tried to rise and fall.

The clue to this was the window position in the frame channel ie it was not central in the groove.

My advice to anyone with painfully slow windows is to loosen the frame fixings and if it runs better, something is out of true. Loosening the channel guide fixings would make no difference in this scenario.

Thank you to everyone for all the help to date.

Cheers,

Malcolm

[MalcolmS]

Hello again,

Today i got the window motor and window frame out of the door. The window fram is broken at the point where thay all seem to break so perhaps this contributed to the window jamming... certainly can't have helped.

I have glued it together with "Super Steel" and leaving that overnight to set. Hopefully tomorrow get it all back together and have super smooth electric windows.

Till then,

Malcolm

[slewthy]

Any chance of an image of the damage?

Simon

[MalcolmS]

Hi,

Just finished fixing the window and putting it all back together. I'll do decent write up and provide some photos tomorrow as i am knackered now.

Below is a picture of the window frame fixed with the "Super Steel". I was able to bond in the fixing strap to make a really robust fix. Very happy with it.

The window now runs from top to bottom at a very consistent speed. (It used to start of lightning fast and almost grind to a halt in the last 3 or 4 cm. I always gave it a little helping hand.)

Wish i could post a video :-)

Till tomorrow.

Thanks again everyone.

Cheers,

Malcolm

[slewthy]

Great! Never used super steel. How does it compare to the pre 'mixed' stuff like QuikSteel?

[MalcolmS]

Hi Simon,

Never used Quick Steel. Super Steel said on the front of the packet that it could be used on aluminium so I went for that without checking others.

This sdtuff set in 5 mins, fully cured in 2 hrs.

Cheers,

Malcolm

[peteyg]

Now you've adjusted the spacers, make sure the frame still makes a proper seal whent he door's closed or you're going to get a nice wet patch when you next wash the car or it rains. I had to compromise between angled frame to create seal and slower window as a result.

Pete

[MalcolmS]

Hi all,

In appreciation for all the help and advice offered I wanted to give you fuller write up which may help others in the future.

As you may have guessed, for me by far the most time consuming part of the job was taking things apart. Once I was past the inner door panel, the window jammed in a low position and the lifting arm both made access to the nuts releasing the motor and window frame very difficult especially the lower nut on the motor (yes there was only one) and the middle lower nut of the window frame. Below is a picture of the motor with only 3 fixing nuts as opposed to the standard 4. ( Had a problem uploading photos ... so no photos :-( )

The lower nut on the motor was easier to access once the window frame was out. Mentally this is now scarred on my mind as the 5 hr nut but I have taken steps to make it the 5 min nut if I ever have to do this again. Next photo shows the 5 hr nut now accessed by a hole I drilled to make it a 5 min job in the future. Also made reassembly a piece of cake.

An important point to keep in mind is that when you undo the top nuts retaining the motor, the door spring is now loose and the door can open too far. So best to mark the position of the motor before removal so that you can put it back in the same place when finished.

My window frame was broken so I had to fix that with the super steel as described in earlier post.

Once that was dried next job was to get the window frame back in. Looking at the ware in the channels I made a guestimate of where I wanted to increase the spaces and where I wanted to reduce. There is no magic formula for this as it will vary from car to car. Three points that I think are important to mention at this point.

1/ The window glass needs to be in the frame and held in the up position with gaffer tape or similar.

2/ The door should be on the car so you can keep checking the car to window frame fit. No point having a working window if there is now a gap and its leaking.

3/ Once I was happy with the frame position I took off the gaffer tape and checked the window went up and down manually. Check this with the door open and again with the door closed.

While doing this I saw that the guide rail (the bit of metal that the wheeled carriage runs up and down) was getting further and further away from the carrier channel ( the bit of metal at the bottom of the glass) as the window approached top. This would obviously introduce a lot of force and friction and was why my window used to slow alarmingly as it approached the top. To fix this I put a washer behind the upper fixing of the guide rail to get the distance between guide rail and carrier channel constant.

After that it was just a question of reattaching everything. Carrier channel to carrier plate. Electrics to motor. Get the wheel of the lifting arm into the carrier channel and finally bolt the motor in position it came from.

Considering how long it had taken to disassemble it was amazing how fast it went back together. Final check that the window runs smoothly from top to bottom and back up. Then on with the door panel and job done.

Thanks to everyone that helped with advice, esp slewthy (Simon) who did send me a lot of details.

Cheers,

Malcolm

[slewthy]

Hi Malcolm,

Nice write up. My motor also only has a single lower bolt but I was able to get to it via a pre drilled hole as you have made.

[MalcolmS]

Just one nagging final doubt in my mind....

Do I have to seal the fiberglass where I have drilled a hole through it ?

[Mesprit87]

I'd put some resin to seal it up but then again, it's not like it's going to sit in oil and soak.

If everything is back together, I wouln't bother.

[MalcolmS]

Thanks Luc. I'll get some resin.