Scottish Independence

[Alfa2Evora]

8 hours ago, Colin G said:

Referendum 2 happens and I'm done. **** the SNP............

+2 on that here, Colin. I wouldn't trust that lot to run a bath let alone a country. Jennifer and I have already formulated our own personal exit plan - we've even got the shipping container for the Evora priced and I've spoken with motoring authorities in NZ about importing and registering it there. We won't be hanging around long.

 

[C8RKH]

I'll be in touch David re the shipping container costs. I still do not figure why she ( Nicola, not the Guerrilla) wants to alienate her biggest market (4x bigger) for a smaller one where the exports volumes have been declining.  Talking about poking your friend in the eye then asking yourself around for dinner. I really do think in the current climate that if she wins Indyref2 then Scotland will be cast into the wilderness and not a rUK single tear will be shed or a finger lifted if she then comes calling yet again (history repeating itself?) for a bailout in the future.

New Zealand sounds nice.

[Chillidoggy]

Her latest wheeze is Scotland having a separate EU trade deal. Presumably that will include the old EU "freedom of movement" cobblers, so those north of the border could well be looking forward to a "jungle" camp on the newly reinforced national border when they realise how bloody cold and miserable it is up there, and can't wait to migrate south. Machine gun towers, and gun emplacements will naturally be required on this side.

Or we could simply build a big wall, like in Calais. Wait, hasn't something like that happened before........?

 

[Andrew C]

19 hours ago, Alfa2Evora said:

+2 on that here, Colin. I wouldn't trust that lot to run a bath let alone a country. Jennifer and I have already formulated our own personal exit plan - we've even got the shipping container for the Evora priced and I've spoken with motoring authorities in NZ about importing and registering it there. We won't be hanging around long.

 

You got room for an Esprit and Evora 400 

Andrew 

[C8RKH]

Lol. Where will she get the money from to pay for it? After all, of course, the EU will just give it all up for free, yes?

 

Trade office in Berlin and all over Europe. Still not heard when she is opening one in her biggest market, or where in that market, in the rUK!

[Chillidoggy]

And of course, the Scots will be forced to accept the euro as their currency. Still, if the dish of the day ends up being 'Shit a la Greque', then bail-outs galore will no doubt be forthcoming.

[C8RKH]

Well, we'll be forced to comply with a Brussels imposed fiscal policy that will get us on track to the Euro in 3-5 years and they, the Scottish Government, will have very little say in the matter or their fiscal policy for about 5 years.

Now, if that is what "freedom" is. Or indeed being "independent" is, then, well, I'll just go and eat my shoes.

And if anyone could tell me how likely the Scottish Government is to pass the convergence test for entry to the Eurozone?

What is measured:	Price stability	Sound public finances	Sustainable public finances	Durability of convergence	Exchange rate stability
How it is measured:	Consumer price inflation rate	Government deficit as % of GDP	Government debt as % of GDP	Long-term interest rate	Deviation from a central rate
Convergence criteria:	Not more than 1.5 percentage points above the rate of the three best performing Member States	Reference value: not more than 3%	Reference value: not more than 60%	Not more than 2 percentage points above the rate of the three best performing Member States in terms of price stability	Participation in ERM II for at least 2 years without severe tensio

 

Just think. rUK has the £ which will be a basket case for several years post-brexit. BUT, and it is a big BUT the rUK can do whatever it wants with it's fiscal policies and interest rates and debts and bonds to drive growth and the economy.

Scotland leaves the rUK, but then has to wait for 2, 5, 10 years to meet the convergence criteria BEFORE it gets the Euro. In that time, it's economy is linked to the rUK £. A currency whose policies and drivers and strategy it has no say in what so ever. What will that do to the Scottish Economy and how will that impact on the meeting of the convergence critieria. In fact, we could see a situation, where the rUK is so pissed off with the Nats in Scotland after Independence that they "play around" a little with the currency just to feck us all over, well and truly. And Mrs Sturgeon and her Nationalist MSPs (cos they will have no Nationalist MP's in Westminster) will not be able to just jump on a train or plane (well, as long as they have their passport I guess maybe they could go) to Westminster to bellyache and complain. They'll not be able to get hand-outs from Europe as they won't be in their straight away. Oh, bejeesus, thank Christ we have oil!  Oh shit, it's nearly gone. OH, it's OK we have wind. Christ, at least we'll still have some lights on in Scotland.

So the UK Government has no plan for Brexit. Well my little darlings. The first question Queen Nichola will get from me when she launches Indyref2 will be, "show me your plan post independence and in detail". Come on now. You shouted at Princess May when she did not have her Brexit one, so I am assuming you have a plan, in detail, with no assumptions and maybes and possiblies, as you demanded they had one.

If only the press in the UK had the balls to really go after the stories, rather than setup bloody football managers and talk about which celebrity is sleeping with whom and other such inconsequential trivia.

We're all doomed!

[Barrykearley]

Scotland will be just fine being an eu member after Brexit.

have your freedom..... no longer will the rest of the uk be subsiding the north.

we can then stop buying and investing up there and instead concentrate on the 'northern powerhouse' 

German Eurocrats will come in to replace queen Nicola - and Scotland will be another German enclave just like Greece.

maybe planet of the apes was based on this Scottish model

[C8RKH]

But that's my point Barry, Scotland will not GET IN to the EU for 3-5 years, maybe 7-10. So up here we will be in Limbo and on our own if we go independent. I mean, if the UK negotiates a Brexit deal, then Scotland leaves the UK, guess what, it has no Brexit deal even!  I really do not think people up here are asking the right questions and that includes the Scottish MSP's and Government.

[Barrykearley]

Yup I get it @C8RKH. Frankly I'm annoyed with the whole hype of getting a Brexit deal.

I say f@ck em...... lets get out... stuff your deal up your ass.

we will take WTO tariffs - happy days - lets get building in the U.K., manufacturing in the U.K., farming, trading etc etc - all in the U.K. 

Wont take many years and we will again be a true super power. While the eu lies in the gutter with the stench of its own filth and debt

[Alfa2Evora]

[C8RKH]

Yup. I'm coming round to your way of thinking too Barry.

On March 31st we should write to the EU and say," hereby take this letter as our official triggering of article 50".

On April 1st we should write another letter saying "we politely decline your offer of a negotiated settlement so we thought we would save you and us the bother of two years worth of meetings, negotiations, dinners, and slap up meals. As of now we are out - no negotiations, no deal, no obligations. Oh please switch the light off as you leave as we can't afford to pay your bill for electricity"

On April 2nd we send a letter to every government, trading block, and whatever and we say "hello. we cordially invite you to come to London, Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester, Cardiff, Leeds, Sheffield, Newcastle and Belfast for tea and cake and to do some mutually beneficial trade. Any time you like, the door is always open".

TVM. Job done. Let's get on with it.

[mayevora]

On 14/10/2016 at 23:00, Mark Blanchard said:

[Barrykearley]

[C8RKH]

From the Telegraph. Please can someone explain given these startling figures why Sturgeon and the SNP are so besotted with the common market and not playing a more positive role in Team UK?

The UK runs a £60bn trade deficit with the EU, despite single market access, while generating a £30bn surplus when trading with the rest of the world, with no single market. The EU is a declining bloc, its GDP growth having lagged every other region for a generation. The 85pc of the world economy outside the EU is growing far faster, offering Britain all kinds of trading opportunities.

[Barrykearley]

All true - but zeee German puppet masters won't let her talk about that

[Chillidoggy]

Sad thing is, the track record of the EU when it comes to accepting new member states is somewhat akin to immigration policy: It doesn't matter whether you meet the criteria matey, in you come.

Will they want another Greece in the form of Scotland? I wouldn't be at all surprised, expansionism appears to be the main priority.

[C8RKH]

Not sure that is totally true Ian. Turkey's first started it's joining discussions in 1987.

Serbia has been given a green light to start discussions with a view to join in 2020.

Behind them, we have Macedonia, Montenegro and Albania all queued up but with no future date set.

Then we have  Kosovo and Bosnia and Herzegovina which have all been promised the prospect of joining when they are ready to.

So what chance Scotland? Surely, as a minimum, it will take 5 years like Serbia? After all, Scotland does not have it's own currency or fiscal policy and control. Any country can apply but fundamentally it needs a period of time to prove it can survive within the EU.  It must have an economy that can cope with the EU’s market forces and be willing to accept established EU law and practice for instance. So that will take Scotland time to prove.

And finally, bringing in new members costs the EU a significant sum of money. The last I read, the UK's bill alone to encourage Turkey, Albania, Macedonia, Montenegro and Serbia to join was going to be £1.8bn by 2020. And here's the rub. If membership of the EU and the Single market was that attractive. Was that fantastic. Why would they need such huge "financial encouragement" to join?

No. I really do think it is time someone stood up to Queen Nicola and the SNP and really got them to put on the table their "known facts and figures" and their "known commitments" re the EU. We have already heard 3, or was it 4, EU members state clearly that they would veto Scotland's automatic entry. How do we let governments get away with such behaviour and politics where they basically disregard and do not hear anything other than their own rhetoric. It is astounding and does not reflect well on me, and my fellow citizens of Scotland, when we do not call the SNP to account for this but idly let them get away with it..

 

[Barrykearley]

Once Scotland's independent - should at least make all the houses up there affordable for everyone not Scottish 

[Chillidoggy]

Andy's hit the nail on the head - no-one is calling Queen Nichola out on her bullshit promises. Trouble is, what opposition does she have in Scotland?

As for acceptance - I reckon human rights violations are probably behind the delays in acceptance, and Scotland hasn't got a bad track record with those. Well, not in the same sense, unless you count the Mars Bars and Buckie.

[theelanman]

the thing I also reckon is that they secretly want to be isolated......

they have a severe hatred of the English.........and want nothing to do with us other than have our money....

but if they can get the cash elsewhere and get away from us they be really really happy.......

and shes sabre rattling and creating a mindset through it all of hate the English and especially the tory English

[Chillidoggy]

"they have a severe hatred of the English.........and want nothing to do with us other than have our money.... "  A little like certain hate-preachers, eh?

I'm not entirely sure that the majority of Scots hate the English, but Queen Nich appears to me to be stirring up such sentiment.

[theelanman]

Ian

that was what I was getting at........she is directing the view of great animosity

 

[C8RKH]

I agree, the vast majority of Scot's do not hate the English. There is however a significant proportion of Scots who for some reason feel hard done by for events that happened well over 300 years ago.  It might be a cliche, but it is true that that fooking fairy tale of a film, Braveheart, with Mel "what a twit" Gibson seemed to stir up all sorts of emotions that have been re-enforced with Songs like "Flower of Scotland" which is all about beating back the English.

When you confront many Scots ( usually SNP supporters granted ) about their english racism - (this is 100% true - I was called a traitor by an elderly woman in Tesco's in Dundee for buying Tesco's own brand "English Sparkling Water"!!!  - old lady or not I can tell you she got a torrent of non-profanity included abuse from me for being a racist, bigoted, slug of a woman and by the look on her face she was not expecting it!) - they get all defensive and say oh, it's just a joke or just a ribbing. However, after 22 years in Scotland it categorically is not that any more. There is a real bile, a real bite, from many of these people who seem to think they have been so hard done by.

I love reminding them that in real life, not in Braveheart, it was the Scottish Earl of Mentieth, just outside Stirling who had offered William Wallace a safe place to stay before he sold him out to the English for English silver.

I also love reminding people that it was a Scottish King, the son of Mary Queen of Scots, who whilst he was on the throne negotiated the union of the crowns that brought the Kingdoms of England and Scotland together under one crown and monarch.

I also love reminding people that it was the Scottish Government and her senior bankers greed who took Scotland to the point of bankruptcy over the ill fated new Caledonia / Darian project in Panama that forced Scotland to go cap in hand to the English for a bail-out who in turn insisted on a political union and so we got one Government for England and Scotland - obviously this was not repeated some 300 years later by the Scottish bankers of HBoS, RBS, LLoyds et al?

None of this I am sure is actually taught in Schools up here at all. Instead, kids get the romanticised view of a peaceful country of land, heather, honey and farms - let's not talk about the Clans who raped, pillaged, buggered, and killed each other for hundreds of years or the bitterness between the Highlanders and the Lowlanders etc etc. The only things they are taught is about things like the Highland Clearances, where it is was the nasty English again. Funny how the main benefactors though turned out to be Scottish Lairds!

I honestly do not know where this "chip on the shoulder" and "blame the english" for everything mentality comes from with these Nationalists. They want to live in the past, dream of Scotland's glorious past from 1100 - 1600! Well, if they are not careful the SNP will have us all bankrupt and living in mud huts and using peat to keep warm all over again.

I'm lucky in that I was born in England to a Scottish mother and an English father. Half my family is one and the other. I've lived in the wonderful country that is Scotland for 22 years. I've got a heap of family and history all over the West Coast. Many of them are Nationalists and I am sure I am tolerated, as opposed to welcomed, because I am family. That is how deep seated the hatred of the English can be. I truly cannot believe it. And it truly flies in the face of the carefully crafted picture the SNP try to paint.

[Barrykearley]

I blame Rab C Nesbitt for it all....