S4 vs GT3 - the age old dilemma

[Davswilson]

I already feel some what of an imposter on this forum as I'm still not an esprit owner so I hope no one minds me throwing in a few questions here and there.

From day 1 my focus has always been an S4 and to an extent still is but lately the potential of going for a GT3 has been crossing my mind.

My desire for an S4 is the same reason most people have a car in mind as they grow up, posters on walls, opening a magazine as a kid etc etc. As for the specific reason I've always liked them you could argue in lotus terms are superficial such as the rear wing/wheels and the advances in reliability to a certain extent. I do like the GT3 which again superficially are the same cars less the wing but I do prefer the oval dash in later models and the idea of the updated or V8 gearbox (correct me if I'm wrong) does appeal as I know the s4 box is far from the best having driven one a few years back.

My question really though is what is the difference sat behind the wheel? The S4 is slightly more powerful but has anyone driven the 2 and in real terms is there a noticeable difference in performance? Handling wise I would expect the 2 cars to be exactly the same but does the different box make much of a difference and is there anything to split the 2 on reliability?

Any opinions would be welcome.

[Trevsked]

Having had a GT3 with the later dash and currently got an S4 project I would say the GT3 is a better car. The later cars are the one to go for with better braking system and the newer dash makes the car feel quite current. There's something to be said though for the older dash as the vents work quite well blowing cool air onto the driver but the downside there is a little less efficientcy at demisting the screen. Earlier dash has more theatre so nice perhaps if the car is occasional use. It's generally recognised that the later the Esprit the better as they improved all the time and I subscribe to this. I don't believe the gearbox was the same as the V8 unless you are referring to the later type linkage but that was the same for the early and late V8's in that it changed the mechanism around 97-98. Late GT3 gets a better wiper mechanism, better brakes, better dash and general build quality improvements. I also think the 2.0ltr engine is free revving but less torquey than the 2.2 but benefits from being kept on the boils.

Trevor.

[Gasman GT3]

As a GT3 owner (1996 so pre face lift) I am obviously biased but I believe a GT3 gives an all round better driving experience and is widely regarded as the best handling Esprit.  As far as I know the gearbox in the GT3 is the same as the S4 being the UN1 transaxle, not the best gearbox in the world but you get used to it (dont expect anything like the DSG on your A6 if you have it).  Trev is right, the later the car the more reliable, over the 10 years I have had my car it has been as reliable as any mainstream production car I have had and only let me down on a couple of occasions.  Bear in mind these cars are now getting on a bit, an S4 will be 20 years old now and the youngest GT3 15 years old so stuff will be wearing out if not alreadt replaced.  IMO the secret to Esprit ownership is keep on top of things, and spend the money when it needs spending.

 

If you fancy a trip out in a GT3 any time let me know.

[jimblob]

Like trev I have had both as well although it's difficult for me to tell you which one is better because my GT3 is a much better condition car vs my s4 so for my experience the GT3 is miles better. As for the early dash vs the later one in pictures I would agree that the later one looks better but in the flesh I find it seems a little cheaper to me more like a cost cutting exercise than a style one. The lack of information from the fewer dials that the later dash provides would have always bothered me had I bought the later set up. Also if GT3 is your thing the mk1 GT3 has an interior unique to that model not found in any other esprit which is something else I like about it ☺. You need to go and have a good drive of both models to be able to make a decision as to what's right for you but i think all it really comes down to is a style choice as opposed to a performance one.

[dodge1979]

In reality it boils down to a choice of styling. There isnt a lot between any of the models (injection 4cyl and v8) in terms of performance that on the road you'll recognise a marked difference. In reality we dont drive around doing 0-60 times so its in gear performance that becomes important. As such your torque curve is more important than 0-60, top speed and bhp figures. As the s4 and gt3 have smaller turbos than the s4s for example theyll spool slightly quicker but again unless your tracking them your not going to get chance to really push them to the limits to find out the extreme differences (safely and legally of course) Handling wise they all handle (if set up correctly and in good order) fantastic and ride adjustments/changes can be made to suit style/preferences on all of them. I agree as trev mentioned above generally the later cars are put together better along with improvement in some areas. .ie gear change and braking sysyems. .but that doesnt mean the 93 onwards s4 is old hack. As its my personal choice, ill always argue that! People will always count the braking system on the s4 and s4s against it, but perhaps this is because they dont understand it and havent experienced it working correctly. And again its a personal preference on brake feel. So really, the question is down to style. Do you prefer the clean looks of no wing on the gt3 and its interior differences over the s4 with a wing. And do you prefer the earlier or later dash layout...

[Trevsked]

All comments so far are really saying similar and bottom line is not a huge amount to choose between the two.

 

Trevor

[Vanya]

You can't go wrong with either car - I've not driven a GT3 but it has so much praise heaped on it despite being down on torque (216 lbft contra 263 lbft of the 2.2 910...) and bhp.

 

As Darren has pointed out above, the braking conundrum is misunderstood and with a tiny bit of time and effort the old Delco Morraine/Powermaster system can be made to feel fantastic. I wouldn't care too much about the gearbox differences if you're worried about durability - the 'box is well specced for the four cylinder cars and you'd have to be a real fiend to cause damage there.

 

The gear linkage was improved for the later cars leading to a slightly more precise feeling gear engagement so that might be something to factor in but I wouldn't say it's a deal breaker if you get an S4 - plus you get that sexy spoiler included contra the more spartan GT3.

 

 

There isnt a lot between any of the models (injection 4cyl and v8) in terms of performance that on the road you'll recognise a marked difference.

 

You mean between 910 and 920 engines? The 918 difference is staggering - the torque is so broad compared to the peaky 4-pots!!!!

[dodge1979]

Performance...not torque was meant in that sentence. Ie general driving etc through gears and on a general outing. However, I do have more torque than a v8 anyhow out of my "peaky 4-pot"

[Vanya]

Performance...not torque was meant in that sentence. Ie general driving etc through gears and on a general outing. However, I do have more torque than a v8 anyhow out of my "peaky 4-pot"

 

Not arguing the stats - the 4-pots and v8's are very closely matched, and you're right the total torque output of the 4 is monstrous, but the V8 is a much lazier ride - especially around town. Anyhow don't wanna derail the thread here.

 

I vote S4. For the spoiler alone.

 

Ok ok, a P.S. has to be added here in praise of the Esprit 4-pot - yesterday I drove my father in law's MB CL600 V12 which puts out just under 400 hp in normally aspirated config. Fair enough the thing weighs 2,1 tons so there's some girth to get going there and there is lots of power to tap into, but jumping into the Turbo SE immediately afterwards and flooring it felt so much faster! Never would've thought 264 hp could feel so powerful... 

[dodge1979]

I second that!

[Gasman GT3]

Wings can look good on a GT3 too

 

[The Pits]

The GT3 has an excellent reputation as a drivers car. Sadly another Esprit variant I have yet to drive. But I'd be amazed if I didn't miss the S4's extra torque. Can we have some views from those that have driven both on the real world performance difference between the two? 

[Sparky]

I've driven loads of both.  The S4 is definitely quicker, initially, from a standing start - those 200ccs definitely make a difference..  The GT3 makes up for this with fantastic midrange response.  Ultimately I'd put them neck and neck in terms of putting yer boot down to achieve 60 or 100mph, but the 2.0l engine feels disappointing for the first second or so.  The GT3 feels much more nimble on the bends though.

 

I have absolutely no desire to put a wing on my GT3 (actually, I removed a V8 wing when I bought it).  The long transom looks just peachy on its own.

[Davswilson]

I agree with the spoiler - for me it would be sacrilege to put a spoiler on a GT3 or remove spoiler from an S4 - for me a car always looks it's best as it was meant to be particularly with an esprit the day it rolled off the production line. Of course it all comes down to opinions and taste but the S4s in standard trim does nothing for me at all. Having said that I'm not really a fan of the GT3 decals!

[jimblob]

We should have a drag strip day, would love to see how the different models match up. I'll throw the gauntlet down not gonna be beaten by any s4

[Sparky]

Cue Darren...

[jimblob]

Sod off highly modified doesn't count lol

I think everyone should bring a pack of lotus biscuits winner takes all

[pete]

Sod off highly modified doesn't count lol

I think everyone should bring a pack of lotus biscuits winner takes all

thought you were on holiday

[jimblob]

thought you were on holiday

I am, got the sunburn to prove it.

[Trevsked]

As there has been a GT3 pic it only seems right to balance with some S4 loveliness.

Trevor.

[s4simon]

The S4 will demand higher resale prices over the GT3 in the future - if not now.

[dodge1979]

Welcome to the brotherhood Trev... **gives virtual hug**

[Trevsked]

It's for sale :-) but thanks for the warmth. The pics don't show for me now, did when I posted but not this morning. Anyone else got the same problem?

Trevor.

[Bibs]

Fine yesterday, gone now. Probably a temporary glitch with photobucket mate.

[dodge1979]

I cam still see them..