Religion and discrimination of Atheism

[Iconic Ride]

Not to put too fine a point on it, but exactly what would be the physical mechanism by which you could "carry over some of our past life?" And why would it be limited to "some" of it, rather than the entirety of it? If one's "mind" is the direct consequence of billions of neurons synaptically connected in a fantastically intricate web, what happens to it when that web has turned to dust? 

 

If you think that mind can exist independently of a physical brain, then no further rational discussion is possible. If mind were independent of a physical substrate, then we would not need our bodies at all. We would simply be intangible "thought clouds" floating in the ether. If that were so, how would one ever accumulate the physical experiences that define our lives?

 

Belief in reincarnation is but one more desperate attempt at refusing to accept one's ultimate passage "into the void." We are, after all, programmed by millions of years of evolution to not want to die. Perhaps stating the obvious, not wanting to die has great survival value. 

 

One way to deal with the reality of death is to consider the fact that (and here I paraphrase somewhat Mark Twain) being "dead" before your were born was not a great inconvenience. The same can be said about the infinity of years following your death. 

 

[molemot]

"The problem (if it can be termed that) with the concept of reincarnation, as most people define it, is that there is no "continuity" between lives. You can't import or export experiences from one life to the other. A "life" is a "life." You can't "know" you're were Caesar if you're not. If you could move from one to the other at death, then you ought to also be able to do that same thing, whilst still alive, with any other contemporaneous life form as well. You ought to be able to leave your current human life for squirrel life at will, yet this potential does not seem to have any verifiable evidence supporting it. "Present tense morphing" just does not occur."

 

I used to have lengthy malt whisky driven discussions through the night with my chum Dennis....he knows all the answers, now, but hasn't sent me as much as an email.....he believed in reincarnation. His theory was that whilst we were extant on the Good Earth, we had no memory of our past lives (not counting such things as hypnosis driven recall)....but when we were in between incarnations, we knew everything that we had done down the millenia. Then we selected what we wanted to be next.....Dennis, having been one of the last to be afflicted with polio myelitis, always said that he wouldn't be so hard on himself the next time round....not that the affliction slowed him down much, other than using the rudder in a slow roll or stall turn....!

 

The thing with all of this stuff is that we cannot know the answer in advance; it may even be, as Richard Bach wrote, that every man is his own Messiah and we all end up with whatever our own individual belief system foretells. Personally, I'm just anticipating fading away through the bright pink light into nothingness; but who knows what dreams may come when we have shuffled off this mortal coil?

[ramjet]

Michael...you weren't talking to anyone; just voicing your own hopes....and the nurse did her job....and a tragedy was averted. Hope it all goes well from there!!

 

 

And sadly there will be plenty of other people in the same position saying the same think not having a good outcome.  Luck of the draw and good medical staff.

 

Respectfully guys, that is your opinion. It hasn't been mine since that day.

[hyteck9]

IconicRide, It sounds like you are debating the existence of the soul (or spirit). It is a good debate, and one that science has been asking a lot about lately. Do neurons and proteins make us self-aware? Provide free will? Make us gay or straight? Dislike brocoli?

Science admits fully they do not know how matter becomes conscious. There must be another 'layer' someplace? Something intangible? A 'frequency' we have yet to learn how to dial in? Who knows.

IconicRide, It sounds like you are debating the existence of the soul (or spirit). It is a good debate, and one that science has been asking a lot about lately. Do neurons and proteins make us self-aware? Provide free will? Make us gay or straight? Dislike brocoli?

Science admits fully they do not know how matter becomes conscious. There must be another 'layer' someplace? Something intangible? A 'frequency' we have yet to learn how to dial in? Who knows.

[Iconic Ride]

Brian, it appears that your next incarnation has "jumped the gun," and begun an overlapping discourse with the forum prior to your shuffling off your current coil.  

[hyteck9]

Damn it George .. I told you to wait in the truck!

[Iconic Ride]

[stephenbirdsall]

My point in starting this thread was the discrimination in the USA against Atheists who are open about their belief. I thought Christians were meant to be above that sort of thing but obviously not and it strengthens my resolve not to ever be part of an organised religion.

 

I'm a little behind on things (I don't get on here often enough), but would like to add my thoughts 'from the other side of the fence'

 

I am a Christian, go to church, run the youth work at our church, etc, etc, but I'm only going to try and answer Kimbers point right now as there is sooooooo much in this thread.

 

The thing is, each and every Christian is at a different stage in their journey (to steal a phrase from popular UK TV). We are none of us perfect, in fact as a Christian, I am effectively saying that I recognise that I am a sinner (do things that offend God) and can do nothing about it, but that Jesus has paid the penalty for my sins, saving me from the punishment that should really have come my way.

 

Couple that with the fact of peer pressure and you have a number of people who claim to be Christians. In the past in the UK, that meant you had almost everyone going to church on a Sunday and sitting there for an hour or so, and they would claim that they were Christians. Only a few had the courage to stand up and say they weren't.

 

There has been a shift in recent years and more people are saying that they either don't believe there is a God or that they aren't sure. Either way, they don't make any claim to be a Christian. One common thing that is quoted is that they can't reconcile their expectation that Christians are supposed to be 'good' people, and the evil actions of some who claim to be Christian.

 

I think what is happening in the US at the minute (from an completely outsiders view) is closer to how things used to be in the UK, ie, a lot of people who claim to be Christians are simply those who go to church sometimes and see themselves as 'good people', or possibly more accurately, 'better people because they go to church'. When they encounter people who stand up and say they are atheists, they see them as 'bad people' and think that they have the moral high ground, allowing them to pass judgment.

 

In a more direct answer to Kimbers post, yes, Christians are supposed to be above that sort of thing, however we are not perfect. We still make mistakes.

 

I hope that makes sense.

[hyteck9]

I have some friends that have gotten more religious as they get older.   We have talked, and It all seems to stem from some kind of internal self loathing.  They seem to "connect" with the Bible because it confirms they are such terrible sinners and should feel guilt and shame for simply existing.   Then it says, don't worry, God still loves you despite how much you totally suck.  

 

This is not healthy for anyone to hear in my opinion.

 

Rather than tell people they are born bad and have an uphill battle to try to beg forgiveness and gain acceptance, I would much rather see a religion that states you have a clean slate from day 1, and just don't screw it up!!  haha

 

This incredibly insightful banter is brought to you free of charge too.  No donations required. 

[stephenbirdsall]

*grins*

 

I don't know if it's self loathing so much as having tried (and failed) to live up to our own standard of 'good'. Either way, I prefer to be told how it appears to be (to me), and how to sort it out.

 

 

Another way of viewing it could be,

1 You're born - you start off with a clean slate

2 You live - you decide that you don't want anything to do with God

3 You die - God says, OK, you can be separated from me forever then. 

 

 

BTW, I hope I didn't come across as saying that the people who are judgemental are not really Christians

 

 

Another BTW, glad to hear that no donations are required, I don't have none to give