A/C Weight/Removal

[cammmy]

Hi All

 

Has anyone ever weighed up all of the A/C gear in an Esprit? Mine doesn't work (and I never use A/C anyway) so was thinking about pulling it all out next time the cambelt is due. I weighed up the gear from a Peugeot once and it was quite substantial.

 

Has anyone ever removed the A/C? Does the dash need to come out to get to the matrix? Do the hoses all run under the body?

 

I'd like to remove as much weight as possible but wouldn't go to the lengths of removing the dash.

 

Ta

Cam

[troutrou]

Can't tell you the exact weight on the Esprit, but removed it from one of my Renault 21, was about 35kg. At least it gives a reference point. The system in the Esprit being more compact (less space to shoe horn the evaporator in the cabin, and less volume to cool down, anyway), so the various components should be downsized compared to a saloon. 25kg would be a good estimate I guess. Now whether this is worth the effort (getting the evaporator out will be no fun indeed), is entirely up to you.

 

I am doing it on another R21 again because its 12valve N/A engine has zero torque below 3500 rpm and the 4WD transmission aggravates things much further, so every kg I can shave off, counts/helps... but for a powerful Turbo car like a GT3.. might not make much of a difference in every day driving. But sure enough, in theory, it can only help.  It all depends how much time and effort you are willing to put into it... as it's not gonna be a single week-end affair I fear...

[Mike6]

I removed the aircon from my car a while back and posted a thread about it. The weight saving is substantial particularly the compressor which I think came in about 12kg from memory. You also gain by not running the belt and pulley which all weigh and reduce efficiency. Also the rad at the front should come out and you will be surprised at the muck which builds up next to the coolant rad. You may also get a better cooling effect.. The pipes weigh a fair amount but I only took out what I could easily get access to. So, I didnt bother with anything under /behind the dash. Revoving the pipework also helps if you ever need to remove the sump which can be tricky due to the positioning of the aircon pipes. I reckon all together I reduced the weight by at least 25kg.

[cammmy]

Brilliant, do you know the name of the thread or have a link?

 

25kg is quite a substantial amount when it's free to do! I'll probably wait until the cambelt is due next year and have a crack at it then; since i'll be taking things to bits at that end of the motor anyway.

[dodge1979]

In reality you wont see any gain from removing all the ac components in terms of performance. So why not get the system working correctly? If you clean your rads you will have perfect cooling anyhow.if you have cooling issues or build up in the fins or between rads then theyrr due for a clean or refurb anyhow..

[cammmy]

I never use aircon, even in the cars I've had where it works. So I'd rather not lug around dead weight and I can always put it back in if I want to.

 

I've got no problems with cooling, it stays at a steady 80 unless I'm not moving and when the fans kick in, it comes back down immediately.

 

You can easily notice the difference in performance with a passenger in the car, and 25kg is 1/3 the weight of a person. Especially if you remove other little bits of weight wherever you can. It all adds up.

 

I care about reducing weight wherever possible, which is why I bought a Lotus over a 135i Coupe

Edited October 1, 2014 by cammmy

[Advantage]

That's a reasonable ethos to repeat, but it's worth remembering that the number of GT3s built with no aircon amounts to only a handful. I think it was single figures. By far the majority of buyers shunned the lightweight sports seats in favour of the heavy squishy armchairs too, so you'll be in the minority of those who pursue this mantra at all costs.

 

Like Darren suggests, you'll be doing well to notice 25kgs in a road car already weighing a podgy 1230kgs. And that advertised weight is without a/c, seats and stereo etc fitted.

[cammmy]

I have the fixed back buckets in there already.

 

The reason I'll remove it comes down to 3 questions.

 

Do I ever use aircon, ever (even when it works) - No

Will it cost money to fix it - Yes

Will it cost money to remove it - No

 

If it doesn't work, wouldn't get used and would cost money to fix, why leave it in there? If I'm in there to do the cambelt anyway, I may as well get rid of it and just put it back if I need to.

 

I'm not talking about spending thousands on a carbon deck lid to shave off 3kg. I am talking about removing 25+ kg of dead weight for free.

 

Mike6, do you remember what the thread is called?

 

Ta

Edited October 1, 2014 by cammmy

[Mike6]

Cam, I have had a quick search but cannot find anything. It could be part of someone elses thread but I have to be honest in stating I do not find searches here very easy. But it was as I stated above. 

 

There is a lot of weight to be saved by reducing redundant kit and that must however small give some benefit. Just removing the aircon belt will significantly help engine efficiency and as I said above removing the lot gives some added benefits.

[cammmy]

Okay cool, thanks.

 

I'll earmark this for when the cambelt is due.

 

Ta

Cam

[Chillidoggy]

If it were me, I'd leave it in. But then I like A/C. And it's a selling point when that time comes around. You cut down your options if it's removed. Just saying.

[internets]

What Ian said, there was a very nice sorted GT3 for sale recently without A/C and apparently that was the first question potential buyers asked the seller which resulted in a no sale many times. I have heard dealers at the time almost threw in A/C at cost as not to hurt residuals and hence why most cars have it.

[cammmy]

Thanks for your input guys. I'm going to remove it; when it comes time to sell, I'll put it back in.

 

I'll leave the cabin matrix etc in place so It won't be much trouble to put back.

Edited October 3, 2014 by cammmy

[Advantage]

Which parts are you intending to remove? 

[cammmy]

Compressor, radiator, condenser, lines that run under the car etc. Anything that doesn't require a huge amount of work i.e. dash removal.

[Chillidoggy]

It's easier to go on a diet, and you won't notice the difference in performance with that loss of weight, unless you're looking to shave 0.25 of a second a lap off at Brands!

And it cuts your potential resale down by some margin. "Has it got A/C?" is the first question I'd ask, anyway.

[cammmy]

I don't have 25kg to lose. I'm 6' and <80kg. I already go to the gym four times a week.

 

The answer to that question will be "yes". Because it will be back in the car.

[dodge1979]

I would suggest your opening a can of worms not because of my personal view that itd be easier to keep and get it working but for this reason....

...the lines run through the left sill. Youll need to drop the radiator pack out of the front to get to the condensor which means youll have all the broken sheared bolts screw etc to replace. If its the first time the rad pack has been touched for a few years then this is pretty much gaurenteed to be a pain. You may or may not successfully move the oil coolers out of the way without breaking them at 200 odd quid each...then when its all down off the car you would be a fool to not replace the radiator at another 240 quid. Youll then need to either cut the condensor off the chargecooler rad as they share the same side frames in which case youll need to build yourself a spacer to correctly hold the chargecooler rad inplace firmly. The chances are the unit will be ok to reuse but with the age of it itlle probably disintegrate. .resulting in you sourcing another one (I have a very nearly new one spare) or youll have to have a custom one made at another 200 quid. Alternatively in order to not butcher the current condensor/chargecooler assembly you could just have a custom chargecooler rad made at...200 quid say. Then space it correctly and ensure its firmly fitted. Then you may well have to repair the fibreglass rad assembly frame/box thing before refitment using all new stainless fitting etc. Oh and possibly replace chargecooler hoses as the new rad will be in a different position or indeed be a custom unit with fitments in different positions.

Then comes the bleeding of the engine and chargecooler with new coolant if the correct grade..so you may as well replace the thermostat as well as a matter of course...

So. Having spent a lot of hours, 500quid odd on rads assuming the oil coolers dont do the usual and break. .if they do youll be looking at 1000 quid for the lots. Plus the repairs to rad shroud, cost of new fixings hoses coolant etc..

I would budget yourself for this one and weight up the cost of 25kg weight loss vs £1000 wallet loss

If you really think you want the system removed either take off the compressor off the engine and the belt at plug the two hoses with correct blanking plugs and tie them up out of the way for nearly free (maybe 10quid for two blanks) or open the big can of yummy squirmy worms.....

[cammmy]

To be honest. That's the kind of information I was looking for 18 posts ago. So thank you, that's much more informative. Up until now, The main point being made was 'don't remove it because I wouldn't buy it if it didn't have A/C'.

 

I'll have to make a call at the time as to how it all looks and whether it's worth doing.

Edited October 3, 2014 by cammmy

[Advantage]

In fairness, there's also been a number of posts saying don't bother because you won't notice the difference - and you won't. There's also been the crazy suggestion of fixing it...

[cammmy]

I believe 25kg is enough weight to make some kind of difference, especially if you reduce weight here and there when you can. It all adds up.

 

I'm not going to fix it because I never use A/C and would rather not have it in the car. I'd rather spend the money elsewhere.

[davevr6car]

Hi Cam,

 

I removed mine on my S4s, for similar reasons.

I live in Ireland and don't use the aircon, and if it gets too warm I just open the window which is usually open anyway to hear my engine note.

 

I removed the pump and some of the pipe work.

I reconnected the radiator into the Charge cooler rad, the same as the S300 to give me better cooling for the charge cooler, which is more power.

 

Its your car, so if you don't want it, just remove it!

[cammmy]

Ha, with the new exhaust and intake mod the windows are always down and the roof up. Can't get enough of that noise X-D.

I'm very interested in what you did with the A/C rad. How did you go about that? Were you able to measure a difference in temps with freescan or anything else?

Ta

Cam

[MikieP]

Hoot! Looking for a working, non-leaking SE compressor - mine leaks... Anyone have one on the shelf/