Face lifted Evora

[chylld]

I just drove past one of the new Porsche Macan SUVs on the way to dinner. Was tempted to roll down my window and yell "that's not a real porsche!"

 

I was quite high up on the Australian Macan preorder list as it seemed to be the perfect do-it-all vehicle. However what I was mainly struggling with (even more than the exorbitant option pricing) was that I could never tell my friends and family that I own a Porsche. The badge, pedigree and engineering are all there, but having to explain "yes, it's really a Porsche, yes, the same company that makes the 911" was too much.

 

If I was going to own a Porsche, it would be one that any schoolkid would be able to instantly identify as a Porsche. Which is why I don't mind if Lotus makes an SUV as I have a "real Lotus". Common sense would suggest that this new crossover uses the "Evora architecture" (i.e. VVA) so I'm hoping that just got lost in translation somewhere....

[Al]

Yup I agree.  If it keeps the company alive and people taking about them then it is a necessary evil IMHO.  It will have spin off benefits and for somebody like me who has an Evoque and looking - no matter how loosely at a Macan for the future - it will give me another option and allow me to stay brand loyal like many Porker owners round our way with a Cayenne for the Missus and a 911 or whatever for him.

 

Mind you cross a rutted field in its and you may end up sitting on a VVA chassis at the other side!

[Stephan90]

I'm not sure if a crossover or SUV is a necessary evil. In fact I am more convinced that there is a niche that Lotus simply isn't good enough yet at exploiting.

 

I am not a market analyst but I am sure there is a market for exotic looking sports cars with a racing pedigree. What Lotus really lacks is the global marketing reach. It simply is not well known enough especially in the 'developing markets'. I have a lot of Chinese and Middle eastern friends and most of them don't really know Lotus.

 

More worryingly a male Chinese friend of mine said that while he liked the car he would not buy it in China because the name Lotus and sharing its name with the flower suggests something about his sexual orientation. Something which (at least the mainland) Chinese are very touchy about. 

 

So Lotus has the engineering nailed down but not the marketing. That is my opinion.

 

PS: Yes I agree, the 345bhp in the Evora are a bit 'ridiculous' for sports car terms. It makes the car a true sports car and not a super-car. The new Renault Megane RS should have 350bhp...

Edited December 19, 2014 by MrStephens

[Snoopy1969]

345 hp are not ridiculous - on public roads its more than enough, even on the Autobahn (ok, Thomas might disagree...:-) ) the traffic limits the car not its power. Since I own the Evora (2012) I have never been passed by by a faster car (if I do not want). If you see - for example - a wild tuned 911 its Suspension is normally that hard / track orientated that it will not drive 300 km/h on the Autobahn (remember Thomas comments on "Porsche GT3 behaviour on the Autobahn). Also I have never seen a Ferrari doing more than 270 / 280 km/h on the Autobahn.

just my 2p

[Stephan90]

I agree with you, otherwise I would have bought something that has 400+bhp.

 

However we are talking about what the market demands or what Lotus should do. And surely it would be 'easier' for Lotus to produce an Evora with 450bhp and shiny gold exteriour which will tickle some markets than producing some crossover/SUV abomination. So that the people who care about 'Oh my car has five bachillion horsepowerz' can buy an Evora without embarrassing themselves in front of their friends.

[Arregueti]

I would probably not buy the SUV myself but having the choice to do so would not harm.

 

People complain about the SUV not being a real Lotus, but then one could also claim that an over-powered sportscar, just to pose, is not a Lotus either... Add lightness and all that...

 

I think that the brand will need to evolve and we should not be dogmatic. Just ensure that the majority at least of the DNA remains and that whatever comes next is just brilliant to drive. Let's simply try to keep the best from the past and make it work in the future. Survival is the key word now.

[Stephan90]

But why try to do something that you have no experience at doing?
 

The Touareg/Cayenne/Q7 chassis was a collaboration of 3 very big firms. How can Lotus with its very limited resources compete with that?

 

I think the best strategy would be to continue to reuse as much as possible. Keep the Evora chassis. Throw in some more POWEEERR and label it a super-car. The GTE could have been just that but that didn't work for some reason(?).

 

Why do we still not have an Evora convertible?!

[RODOLPHESPRIT]

That crossover may use the VVA chassis, but it will never be called Evora! JMG knows enough about marketing to make sure that would never happen.

There are still enough possible names starting wih an "E" around.

May be Error !!!

[Snoopy1969]

On a Long term view: the Cayenne Thing will have a negative Impact on the value of the brand Porsche - in Germany the resale value of "old" Cayennes is very low, a lot of them live their live at cheap outdoor sales People (for our German guys: Freilandhaltung beim Fähnchenhändler....;-)

I guess we won´t see a Porsche / car enthusiast that will open his Garage and says: "wow, my nice 10 year old "classic" SUV Cayenne...."never ever....... 

[diego]

No, the Cayenne was essential, though ugly and boring. Look at it this way, the Cayenne allows Porsche to build cars like the 918 and GT3, neither of which they earn any money on. 

 

So, if Lotus finds 10000 for the Eugly or Eboring SUV and builds the new Esprit with the money they earn through that I'm all for doing it!!! 

 

i 100pc agree.... i couldn't give a toss about them doing it, who knows if they build an SUV and its good i may get one too!

[diego]

345 hp are not ridiculous - on public roads its more than enough, even on the Autobahn (ok, Thomas might disagree...:-) ) the traffic limits the car not its power. Since I own the Evora (2012) I have never been passed by by a faster car (if I do not want). If you see - for example - a wild tuned 911 its Suspension is normally that hard / track orientated that it will not drive 300 km/h on the Autobahn (remember Thomas comments on "Porsche GT3 behaviour on the Autobahn). Also I have never seen a Ferrari doing more than 270 / 280 km/h on the Autobahn.

just my 2p

 

i completely disagree - and if you want to sell into new markets to new customers unfamiliar with the product a 2+2 70k sports car cannot have the same hp as a hot hatch (which may even be lighter or the same weight!), its got failure written all over it - pub talk counts as do the magazine road tests and reviews and awards which are as much about headline figures as feel. the Frenchman is correct, it is all about being the fastest car in your segment at your price. having it in the corners methodology almost killed off lotus and stopped me buying one for the best part of a decade.

 

you either keep up or you die off. i think they have finally learnt this lesson.   

 

the problem is the hot hatches get the latest gen blown engines, lotus have to find a safe way to up hp and maintain respectable co2....  all possible i suppose. 

[Snoopy1969]

I know that was coming.....but I respect your Point of view, surely I know that my Point of view is not the "only and true"

 

- well, under a  "Marketing" Point of view your Statement esp concerning the "new" customers to the brand might be correct but I want to stress the fact that objectively no on needs more power, also: the fun and enjoyment in most situations won´t be more if I would have 100 hp more.

[Stephan90]

Lets look at a potential buyers choice who isn't an absolute Lotus fanatic and who does most her driving on normal roads:

 

Lotus Evora:
£53'000.--
280bhp

0-60 4.9s

3.5L Toyota engine

 

Lotus Evora S:
£62'450.--
345bhp

0-60 4.6s

3.5L Toyota engine

 

Porsche Cayman 2.7:

£40'000.--

271bhp

0-60 5.7s

2.7L Porsche engine

+ Porsche badge

 

Porsche Cayman 3.4GTS:

£56'000.--

335bhp

0-60 4.9s

3.4L Porsche engine

+ Porsche badge

 

Jaguar F-type Coupe 3.0 V6 2dr

£50,025

336bhp

0-60 5.1s

3.0 V6

+ Jaguar badge (something to be showing off with? I don't know)

 

Lexus RC F

£59'995.-

477bhp

0-60 4.5s

5.0L V8

+ Lexus badge (haha yeah that doesn't work does it)

 

So to be honest guys, the Evora isn't exactly best at anything tangible. Yes it might be best to DRIVE but that is hard to sell on paper, in a TV ad, etc. etc. And from personal experience it is almost a little embarrassing when somebody goes: "Oh wow nice car. How much power has it got? 400? 500?" "350" "Oh really... erm... my Focus RS has more." WTF

 

Edit: I forgot the Evora S (which is what I drive btw) because it is even worse value for money.

Edited December 19, 2014 by MrStephens

[TBD]

You forgot the Evora S, which is the only model to compare after the N/A as been discontinued.

 

Lotus Evora S:

£ ???
345bhp

0-60 4.4s

3.5L Toyota engine

 

Its faster and much more exclusive. 

[Don.Hasi]

 

Also I have never seen a Ferrari doing more than 270 / 280 km/h on the Autobahn.

 

but me F50 full flat out on the A3 (ca. 330 km/h) ... first there was only noise.... than a quick red flash... awesome noise followed by silence... and me at 210 km/h just smiling and having the feeling, that i was in reverse...

 

 

 

: "Oh wow nice car. How much power has it got? 400? 500?" "350" "Oh really... erm... my Focus RS has more." WTF

 

I am not sure with that... all Rover-Elise owners have to answer exact this question with 120 BHP! and a bit more is the answer... And it does the trick as we know... It is the opener for most petrolheads into a new (lighter) world

[diego]

I know that was coming.....but I respect your Point of view, surely I know that my Point of view is not the "only and true"

 

- well, under a  "Marketing" Point of view your Statement esp concerning the "new" customers to the brand might be correct but I want to stress the fact that objectively no on needs more power, also: the fun and enjoyment in most situations won´t be more if I would have 100 hp more.

 

 

 

i used to drive a 458 and maser gts a fair few miles on the autostrada and autobhan.... having the extra 100-200-300bhp was fun in its own way but completely useless in the real world. so i agree..... 

 

but its what drives sales that counts. you simply cant offer a £75k+ sports car in this day and age with the same output as a £40k hot hatch. useful hp or not the technology gap / arbitrage through lighter and more complex materials etc just inst there these days, everyone is using the same tech. so it just wont translate into meaningful sales outside the die hard enthusiasts. and selling to them is clearly not the new business plan... just my 2p... porsche could prob get away with it because they are the market leader. 

 

wait a min? dont you have a komo hp upgrade on your evora? perhaps im wrong but wasn't it you that posted a film being nearly out dragged by an audi estate 3.0 ?

 

apologies if it was another chap on here! 

Edited December 19, 2014 by diego

[Snoopy1969]

no komotec here.........just for completeness ;-) (TBD here has the full kit but I cannot imagine that he had "Problems" with an Audi estate)

 

 

At least our Points of view of the consequences of the market and the behaviour of customers are very near.

 

One "real" Problem in my eyes is that not so many People are interested in a sports car, but in a SUV/ limo with a sports car badge (even if it is a rebadged mass vehicle)

[diego]

My apologies

[Snoopy1969]

Everything fine!

Off topic: I really appreciate that TLF is a forum which members act in a way people would (normally) act seeing each other and having a polite talk! Different opinions create an interesting forum but that has nothing to do with being unpolite.

[LotusLeftLotusRight]

I read 2WD crossover and Evora convertible. If they manage the latter as a 2+2, I will be placing an order at launch. I bet it's 2+0 only though. As for a 2WD crossover? Meh, but I don't have to buy one, so I'm not fussed if it makes money. It will certainly be better looking than anyone else's.

[TBD]

Actually a Lotus crossover would be exactly the car for SWMBO. 

And I could the get an Exige instead of an Evora. 

Sounds likee a win-win-win proposition 

[The Pits]

I agree with Diego that more headline bhp is needed to find new buyers and also with Snoopy that in the real world an Evora S is the very definition of 'more than ample' performance. It remains one of the fastest cars you can buy over rough surfaces. But new customers have to be found as there are simply not enough diehard Lotus cognoscenti to sustain the company. The Evora is worth every penny of the asking price to those who really understand it. But it just doesn't shine on paper and is losing sales at stage 1. Silly I know. But the market is an ass.

 

Alas I fear not even 400bhp will be enough to attract the attention of the ambivalent. Remember how crazy Lotus went with the Lotus carlton? The equivalent today would be more like 600bhp in an Evora! 400bhp is playing catch up, it's not doing anything to overtake. It's crucial that they get the weight down. Not because the current car really needs it, but to make a statement of intent that the company is back on course with the Chapman ethos.

[TBD]

Unfortunately the Evora will never be that car. The design is limited to a transverse mounted engine, which means limits engine choices considerably and, the Toyota V6 is one of the largest transverse mounted engines on the market. Anything bigger would have to be mounted lengthwise, meaning a complete redesign and no more 2+2 (or a ridiculously long wheelbase).

 

Toyota sets strict limits on what modification Lotus can make to the engine, not to mention the extreme cost of having to tear every assembled engine Toyota delivers in trying to do so. Lotus could possibly do a turbo version, but I can imagine the handling impacts (point and shoot vs. glide and drive) and the thermal issues. 

 

The Evora's marketing issues were, with the possible exception of the N/A as a launch edition, were never power. The Evora just didn't sell as expected because the existing customer base of Elige owners wasn't looking for such a car and the lack of a dealer network made finding new buyers very hard. Even now, put the Evora S and the Porsche 911 both in front of a potential buyer and you'll get a very good share of the market. I'm not even sure more power or lighter weight would have any impact on that comparison.

 

But, you have to put the car in front of the buyers face! So, JMG is doing the right thing in getting the dealer network up.

 

Just remember, the Evora is NOT a supercar and was never meant to be one. It remains the rare alternative to those bread and butter Porkers.

 

And to those comparing power levels with hot hatches are comparing an all-you-can eat buffet with a three star Michelin menu. That buffet has more food (and calories), but the three star menu is a piece of art with taste and class. 

[The Pits]

Here's the thing though, Lotus managed to far out perform their sales targets for the S1 Elise. A car that also didn't perform well on paper. The Honda S2000 offered twice the horsepower! It was also considered quite expensive (for the bhp) at the time. Yet somehow a normally ignorant market seemed to understand the whole idea of the Elise and also why it cost so much more than an MX5.

 

I guess essentially that the S1 Elise was something unique in the marketplace whereas the Evora is a cheaper 911 alternative. Most buyers stumped up the extra for the 911 without ever trying an Evora. Thomas is spot on, if you're going up against such a popular and well resourced opponent you can't do it quietly. To take on British Airways, Richard Branson used every trick in the book. Nissan  were smart with the GTR. In terms of sales it's barely even a rival to the 911. Another car Porsche could have (and should have ignored) but they went out of their way to get up Porsche's nose and suddenly it looks like a credible rival. The rebel alternative to Porsche's stuffy establishment. BA vs Virgin all over again.

[Breeze]

In my mind the Evora sales were hobbled from the start by Bahars announcement of the phantom five. That was such a stupid thing to do so soon after the launch of the Evora. He also set about undermining and destroying the existing dealership network rather than trying to enhance it. I'd also suggest that the Evora S should have been the launch edition with the N/A Evora being announce later. The original launch edition simply never had the BHP to impress.  Certainly the Toyota engine is a bit of a problem though. Even in supercharged form it still only produces 345 bhp, which from a 3.5 l capacity is pretty indifferent in terms of BHP / Litre. I have no doubt these numbers could be made very much better with a little thought and application as people like komotec have done ( though quite what their CO2 and consumption figures are like I don't know. )