Lotus Evora 400

[DaveC72]

Don't forget that the £72k price includes taxes.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the $ price is roughly $72k. (That is generally how UK/US prices work when things from here are sold over there).

 

 

This.  

 

 

$112K USA is pretty darn steep competition territory.

 

100k      GT-R  545HP with AWD      7:19  ringtime

100k      Vette Z06 /Zr1   650HP  with Magnetic adj. suspension   7:19 ringtime

90-120  Porsche (as mentioned)    7:19 ringtime

90-120  Maserati

95k       Viper  645 HP   RWD V10   7:12 ringtime

 

 

 

Here's what we would pay in the UK for these cars (and I've put the equivalent in US$ using todays rate of 1.57):

 

Admittedly the Viper is not sold in the UK officially so a little hard to do the comparisons, but you should get the idea...

NissanGTR £78,000 ($122,460) no options

Porker 911 Carrera £73,500 ($115,395) no options

Maser Gran Turismo £82,890 ($130,137)no options

 

This isn't me disagreeing with you Brian, but we kind of get a slightly differing pricing model over here, so the list price doesn't really seem that high when you consider you'll be getting a ton of kit included in the Lotus that will be options for the three above..

 

The US is such a critical market - you won't be paying anything like the currently exchange rate of $113K, in fact I'm guessing that it will be below $100K - and possibly by a decent whack

[the83man]

USA price is $89,900 (excluding local sales taxes) according to the press release.

[DaveC72]

USA price is $89,900 (excluding local sales taxes) according to the press release.

 

Note to self.  Re-read the press release...

[C8RKH]

Admittedly the Viper is not sold in the UK officially so a little hard to do the comparisons, but you should get the idea...

NissanGTR £78,000 ($122,460) no options - ACTUAL US PRICE TODAY NEW - $102k base (in GBP at today's rate £65k)

Porker 911 Carrera £73,500 ($115,395) no options - AUS PRICE TODAY NEW - $88k base (in GBP  - £56k)

Maser Gran Turismo £82,890 ($130,137)no options - ACTUAL US PRICE TODAY NEW - $133k (in GBP - £85k)

 

Lotus EVora 400 - US Price $90k which equals a UK price, at today's rate of £57k!!!!!  A £15k difference.

 

I know, the Government probably gets most of the difference in the Uk in Taxes.

[brightoncorgi]

It's hard to convey to potential customers what driving a Lotus feels like until you get them behind the wheel for a real drive.  This is a critical step Lotus needs to focus on.  How do you get new customers behind the wheel?

 

Performance data is great, but if the consumer does not get the Lotus experience, read stats don't convey the experience. 

[The Pits]

http://www.thelotusforums.com/latest-news/lotus-cars-news/lotus-confirms-evora-400-prices/

[C8RKH]

£79k list for my perfect next new car. It's a bargain but too rich for me, so can someone please order one as follows:

 

Evora 400 base in White (pearl)

Red Leather

Cruise

Forged Wheels

 

When it's five years old with around 20k miles I should be able to afford to buy it from you.....              

[hyteck9]

Press release said $89k ?   OK. that is better than $112k.    (yay for me!)

 

So let's take the hard look at the 400.

 

Moses, The Lotus experience TOTALLY IS hard to convey.  I agree it needs a better marketing campaign behind it specifically.

 

Andy, I feel the Lotus is actually a bit light on options.  Corvettes have heated/air conditioned seats now... Heads up display... driver selectable ride-control dampers, active-bypass exhaust , just to name a few.  and they do it all with the same weight as the Evora with a heavy v8 ( NA and even supercharged v8). 

 

On a personal note, I will also add that an LSD should have been standard on Espirts and every Lotus ever since.  A car company that survives on its reputation for suspension and handling should have accepted that the benefits of an LSD far exceed the little bit of extra weight it adds, back in the 1990's like so many other manufactures did.

 

As for suspension,now with dampers being controlled from the drivers seat, either via mag-ride or 32-position servos like the TEIN system, Lotus may find even the most 'perfect' static factory tuned setup is tough to market against dynamic setups where the driver gets to do what they want.

 

So what is my point?  I don't know... I guess I just want to see Lotus reflect its heritiage.  The 400 won't be the lightest, it won't be the fastest in a straight line, it won't be the stickiest  (base model corvettes now pull over 1g lateral).  It won't be the most technologically advanced...  so what is Lotus's 'differentiator'?    Driver experience I guess..  The one thing that doesn't present well on paper, and is sort of already claimed in marketing by BMW  (the ultimate driving experience). 

 

( btw, this soapbox is me trying to HELP.  haha.  Lotus..  You have got to stand for something, and demonstrate it flawlessly, or you won't survive and I will cry. )

 

I will do my part and get a 400 and drive it for everyone to see.  But Lotus doesn't make it easy to explain to friends that for the same money I could have gone 0-60 faster, or turned harder, or had more this or that.  No sir, the only answer to that question is to hand them the keys and let them understand for themselves. 

[atlasapl]

 

£79k list for my perfect next new car. It's a bargain but too rich for me, so can someone please order one as follows:

 

Evora 400 base in White (pearl)

Red Leather

Cruise

Forged Wheels

 

When it's five years old with around 20k miles I should be able to afford to buy it from you.....              

 

White, yes. I would also have (if I had any money), the black pack and the full alcantara interior as well. Cruise and forged wheels go without saying.

[Al]

Weh hay!  Not as bad as I'd feared.  

 

Still can't afford it anyway as a house to start and finish building first but by then the Targa will be out and any teething issues sorted out.  Yup Brandon,  now can you just order your Targa demo in Ardent Red with black pack and cruise control.  Sorted.

[Bibs]

Lotus have traditionally avoided LSD's as they felt they compromised turn in too much.

[hyteck9]

understood...  Though LSD's designs are adjustable/variable  for just that reason.  

Edited May 19, 2015 by ramjet

[chylld]

The 400 won't be the lightest, it won't be the fastest in a straight line, it won't be the stickiest  (base model corvettes now pull over 1g lateral).  It won't be the most technologically advanced...  so what is Lotus's 'differentiator'?    Driver experience I guess..  The one thing that doesn't present well on paper, and is sort of already claimed in marketing by BMW  (the ultimate driving experience).

 

In a nutshell, this is the main challenge that Lotus faces. Obviously, most of us have seen past the paper stats and been sold on the Lotus driving experience, but the average Joe will simply not get that far.

[auRouge]

Aurouge:

Is Lotus is planning on using a V8 570/650ps, 7 Speed Twin Clutch, Carbon Fibre tub, adaptable electronic/magnetic suspension, hard folding electric roof with Carbon Ceramic disks...?

No I don't suppose it is. But then, who needs all that when the Evora 400 Spider / Targa whatever will be 98% as good, 99% as fast on real roads, 97% or better on track and 50% of the price. I know where my smart money would go, but accept that some people just want to pose...

I also buy an Exige as a toy with the £15k - £20k I won't need to spend on new Carbon Ceramic brakes after 3 years.

Hahahaha - each to his or her own, you earned it, you have the right to spend it how you want. :)

98% as good as a Ferrari 458 Italia... Hmmm okay

[The Pits]

It depends what you consider the 458 to be good at. The Evora has nicer steering, better ride, more accommodation, is more discreet, more economical and it's also rarer!

For impressing others and making a wealth statement the Ferrari wins hands down. It's also much quicker on the autobahn but is it really any faster A to B on the road? I think we all know it isn't for the same reason that nothing will get you to B meaningfully quicker than a Golf R on the road. And don't forget that Ferrari used the Evora as a benchmark during the 458's development.

I'd much rather have a manual Evora than a shouty auto Ferrari. That might seem like rose tinted specs to some but I just know I'd enjoy driving the Evora more, more of the time. the Speciale however, that's a different matter...

[ramjet]

If Ferrari used the Evora for a benchmark, what levels (handling I presume) and did they beat it?

[C8RKH]

Yes Aurouge, maybe my spectacles are rose tinted, but in my opinion, having driven a 458 on the road (not the track) and now owning an Evora, I would say it is 98% as good.

 

Don't get me wrong, if I had the cash I'd love to splash it on a 458, 488, 599 etc. but would I be getting something that was 2 or possibly 3 times better than the Evora 400 for my 2 or 3 times extra outlay?  I personally do not think so. But woukld I enjoy owning one of the said Ferrari's? Of course I would. Though to be honest, whereas in the Lotus I usually get nothing but smiles, I can't help thinking in the Ferrari people would think I was in the coffee bean business.  Just saying.

 

I like the "ThePits" points. Owning a Lotus appeals to people who enjoy driving cars, and driving them well and driving them fast. It's a niche brand and in my opinion it should always stay so. By staying true to it's principles it can develop and produce great cars that people will buy and with improved manufacturing and quality control it will get more customers. It will never sell 100's of thousands of vehicles, but then why should it?  Why can't it exist for what it is? A niche supplier of fabulous motor cars, at an affordable price point, for the enthusiast. Niche does not need to mean cheap, poor quality, etc.  In fact in most instances, we seek out the "artisan" product and pay a premium for it. Strange then that Lotus do not charge more....

 

Leave Ferrari, Porsche, Audi and the rest to chase market share and don't get jealous of it - just remember that rather tha n buying an original oil painting, one of the few, you are buying a print - maybe a limited edition print, but a print all the same.  

 

Lotus. Please, just do what you do better, keep the customers you have loyal, and actually market your products, and you will grow.  Why is everyone so obsessed with figures on paper, be they 0-60mph times or BHP figures or sales figures?  Big is not always best or beautiful, and I'm a fat bugger so now that is true. I personally don;lt care that my NA Evora "only" pushes out 275bhp compared to a Vette's gadzillion or a GTR's quadmillion. I live in a beautiful part of Scotland, with some great roads and not a lot of traffic and struggle to reach the full potential of my lowly 275 bhp, god knows what I'll do with the extra 125bhp when I get an Evora 400.

 

I always wanted a DB9. I was intoxicated by that 6.0 litre V12 and the sublime looks. I"settled" for an NA Evora. Do I regret my decision?  After all a DB9 has an extra 200bhp and about an extra ton in weight too. No way. I guess it just shows it's horses for courses. I bought my Lotus to drive it. A lot of Ferrari owners bought it to pose and show off their wealth. Does not make them bad people, but ultimately, who will make the best driving car? The one who has demanding posers for customers, or the one who's customers demand th best driving experience. My money is on Lotus. But then, I'm not always right.

[Gravel]

IMHO the challenge for Lotus is to appeal to a far wider audience. There aren't enough rich faithful Lotus fans to make a profit and ultimately that's what business is all about.

Some of the adverse comments about the 400 remind me of Ramsey's Kitchen Nightmares - when the restaurant is failing because the manager won't change the menu for fear of losing the 5 regulars that turn up every other Thursday despite the restaurant being 95% empty.

JMG seems to get it - as pretty as the bespoke buttons are in the current car, it is IMHO a design FAIL that I can't bloody see them from the driver's seat! There is IMHO a big difference between special and quirky! Would an Audi interior in a car that was actually fun to drive really upset people?

[The Pits]

If Ferrari used the Evora for a benchmark, what levels (handling I presume) and did they beat it?

 

It was the steering and no Ferrari didn't beat it!

 

The Evora's power steering remains peerless.

 

The thing is, numb steering will still get you round a corner therefore it fulfils it's primary function. The secondary function is to communicate with the driver about the road surface and levels of front end grip. Most modern cars fail spectacularly at the latter despite it being the single biggest contribution to driving pleasure (an entirely sensory and emotive concept after all). Power steering typically sacrifices function 2 in exchange for easier parking and low speed manoeuvres. Such a compromise is out of place with a sports car, which is why the Exige V6 is such a tonic. The car's priorities are spot on.

 

The Evora remains one of the very few power steering systems left that delivers on both aspects. Porsche's 997 steering would be another example. That the move to EPAS hasn't hindered their success just shows you how little most punters care about steering. Maybe Lotus could make some savings by not bothering to dedicate countless man hours to perfecting a steering system. They could spend the time instead on 'what the market wants'. The result would be an immeasurably poorer car and ultimately you'd end up with a Porsche or Audi with worse build quality. There might only be a few punters left in the restaurant but I don't think anyone at all would want to buy that.

 

They need to forget about Porsche and focus instead on doing what they do and do it well. The numbers are already picking up, amazing really considering the recent turmoil. If they get the next few cars right and really improve quality, they can only grow from here. Porsche went very quickly out of fashion in the late 80's, it can happen again. Ubiquity can cost you when you're promising something exclusive. Last time TVR benefitted hugely in the UK. TVR built a whole new range of cars and engines off the back of it. It could well be Lotus's turn next time round.

[C8RKH]

Gravel, re "Would an Audi interior in a car that was actually fun to drive really upset people? " The answer to this is YES!

 

A very good friend of mine with a long history of nice cars (F40, F50, 512, 360 Spider, F430, 911's, many classic Merc SL's, Bentley Arnages and GT's and Azures, etc etc) looked at an R8 and turned it down because (1) it was an Audi and (2) it had an Audi interior.  A current work colleague who has a highly modified 500+bhp R8 V8 hates the interior - it's just like a TT he says.

I wouldn't buy an Audi even if it was fun to drive, just hate the image and the fact they are two a penny. That's why I'm arguing for Lotus to do what it does, but better, get profitable but be content with it's niche.

 

There's a difference between being a profitable business and chasing bigger and bigger revenues and profits. And as for quirkiness / build quality the R6 cabin isn't pretty and the R6 is one of the least reliable cars according to JD Power / Which surveys. SO even the "big" profitable guys don't always get it right.

 

I know, I'll take the rose tinted spectacles off.

[Gravel]

Fair enough C8RHK - the danger is that you'll end up getting asked for Pagani money if you want the same degree of bespokeness.

I just don't want to lose a hand trying to operate the drivers window switch! I could handle less bespoke switches as long as they were properly placed!

[Bibs]

They're much more accessible in the 400 as the grab handle is deleted.

R8 run out the LMX is £160k and people are buying them. Imagine if they spent just 10 mins in an Evora...

[C8RKH]

I get your point Gravel, I guess we both want the same thing - a strong healthy Lotus company with a strong and healthy product line up of cars we want to, and indeed do, enjoy driving. 

 

Have to admit, although the switches are awkward on the dash / centre console for the current Evora, people I've had in my car genuinely feel the love for the fact it is real metal and not plastic. They seem to love the fact that they believe it means the car was "engineered".  But then same people have not tried to use the mirror switch on the door from Ford, too much for my short fat hands.   hahahaha!

[Gravel]

They're much more accessible in the 400 as the grab handle is deleted.

R8 run out the LMX is £160k and people are buying them. Imagine if they spent just 10 mins in an Evora...

Good to hear Bibs. Really don't want to ask but does the 400 have cup holders? IMHO that's what a potential R8 owner would notice before driving the Evora!

[Gravel]

I get your point Gravel, I guess we both want the same thing - a strong healthy Lotus company with a strong and healthy product line up of cars we want to, and indeed do, enjoy driving.

Have to admit, although the switches are awkward on the dash / centre console for the current Evora, people I've had in my car genuinely feel the love for the fact it is real metal and not plastic. They seem to love the fact that they believe it means the car was "engineered". But then same people have not tried to use the mirror switch on the door from Ford, too much for my short fat hands. hahahaha!

Agreed - I want Lotus to succeed too! If it weren't so bloody brilliant to drive the quirks wouldn't annoy me so much as I probably wouldn't have bought one!

I do like the machined metal look of the switches but IMHO they have to either be easy to see, or have a very good tactile feedback when pressed if you can't see them. To me they have missed out on both fronts.

I know a lot of this is fixed on the 400 but stuff like this gets mentioned in reviews that put people off arranging test drives!

I love the feel of the metal in the centre of the steering wheel - that IMHO is special in a good way! The Evora is a wonderfully engineered machine but as 99% of that is under the skin, IMHO the bits that you can see/hold/touch are crucial to the experience of owning or more importantly, wanting to own one.