Check Engine Light but no faults in Freescan

[sailorbob]

The T00T0900 tool is just a test lamp, you can use injector noid lights instead.

[bogle]

I got a new Rheostat from JAE for the center console dimming and it works!  I forget if there's two bulbs in the center console, so I might need to pull out the console to change the other bulb.   It took a little longer to solder the wires than expected and connecting back the harness in the steering column was a little tricky.  Looks like I'm missing the collar nut (behind the dimming knob) off the steering column.  Not sure if that part even exists - lucky just to get the rheostat.

 

I have the new reverse baulk (JAE part) for the gear shift to install, so I'll pull that center console out when I do that project. That will happen after the new injectors since I need to kill the Code 65 error.

[Qavion]

Good luck with the new injectors, Bill

 

Meanwhile.. I'm still building up the courage to install my second new ECU.... I still haven't figured out how I blew up the old one.

 

 

Well, I fitted a new ECU (second new one) and warmed up the car for about 10 minutes. Freescan was talking nicely to the ECU and all the data was available. Then, at some point, Freescan crashed, but this time, no CEL. I was able to reboot Freescan at will, so I don't know why it crashed. Too much data??? Doesn't like Windows Vista?

I wanted to get some data starting with a cold engine, warm up the car, then go for a drive, but when Frescan crashes, I lose all the recorded data.

 

When looking at the Freescan data, I noticed some really wild swings of the 02 volts and Rich/Lean readout. I don't know if this is normal or not. e.g. the Rich/Lean value range within a few seconds changed from 50 to 246. The manual says the range is ok, but I didn't think it would swing about so rapidly at a constant idle. Could this be related to a faulty O2 sensor (it's relatively new) or faulty injectors, or am I thinking too hard?

 

Thanks

Cheers

Ian

[Barrykearley]

From memory - my O2 values swing 0.1-0.9v I think is the standard range.

Somewhere it says if the number isn't moving when warm the O2 sensor is knackered.

If it's a new ecu - you may well get weird values whilst it goes through relearn.

I'm sure someone will be along who knows more......

[Bibs]

Working O2 sensor graph...

 

[bogle]

Ian,

 

Freescan states after warm up the O2 sensor should oscillate from 0.0 to .9 volts.  My recent Freescan log show at 85 C ranges from .035 to .8558 volts.  This is using the Bosch O2 replacement sensor which I put in about 2 months ago.

 

In regards to Vista, it's time to think about getting an XP or Win 7 laptop to run Freescan.  Not sure about Win 8 or 10 (but they would probably work).  Vista was notorious for hardware/software issues.  Win 7 fixed most of the busted things in Vista.  As I've only run Win 7 SP1 Pro on my main laptop which has Freescan,  I can't speak for the other platforms.  MAC is not supported according to Freescan and it's a use at own risk type of thing.  As I use up to 5 laptops from XP to Win 7 (Starter, Home, Pro and Enterprise), I would probably avoid Enterprise due to Bit Locker possibly messing with the USB port for encryption. 

 

Not sure how long it takes for the new ECU to learn the O2 sensor data.  I'm sure after the test drive, it should stabilize by the end of the run.

[Qavion]

Thanks, gents.. I'm feeling a little braver to take it for a test run

 

I have an ancient Win 95 laptop which is about to implode (the screen is barely visible). The only other non-Apple laptop I have runs on Vista. I see that Windows don't sell Win 7 any more and upgrading Windows Vista to Windows 8.1 is a clean install (files/programs lost).

 

For now, I'll see how much data I can get from my current laptop (I'll record in short bursts).

 

Cheers

Ian.

[bogle]

You might try CDW for a Win 7 laptop as they have a few IBMs and HPs with Win 7 Pro.  Sorry, forgot that the retail store don't have it anymore as they are blitzkreiging Win 10.  Go to www.cdw.com under notebooks.  I'm not sure if they sell to the public. 

[Barrykearley]

You need to do a full on relearn.

From cold - reset blm and iac

Start car - run stationary until fans kick in

Take for a nice drive 15 mins or so of nice mixed driving

Anything different and mine seemed to do strange things in the learn cycle and never got it right....

[Yellow Peril]

For mini laptops you could also look on eBay for an EEEpc running XP or Win7

Some models take a 12v input so you might be able to ditch the mains adaptor and go direct to the car loom

[Qavion]

Thanks, folks...

 

Finally.... success.... At least with the car. Not much luck with Freescan outside of the driveway however. With the (second) new ECU, the car ran perfectly. I went for the longest, sweetest drive I've had for years. (through a local national park).. and with new brakes, new tyres, new ECU, new alternator regulator, new coolant tank, new spark plugs, new belts, new charcoal cannister plumbing, almost new electric chargecooler pump, refurbished steering rack....

 

What actually fixed the car, I'm not sure. Did that faulty alternator regulator somehow damage the previous two ECU's or did the old ECU fail due to old age and the first replacement ECU wasn't quite remanufactured correctly?

 

Anyway, I don't think the car has been this good since I bought it 16 years ago   

 

Thanks again!

 

Cheers

Ian.

[Barrykearley]

Waaaawhooo

Proper pleased for you - it's sure smile time when its all running as it should be

[Yellow Peril]

Great feeling when it all starts to go right. Well done

[bogle]

Well back to my error code 65...

I installed the new RC Engineering injectors and the car sounds good and idles better than ever.  To remember users, I have replaced the battery and rebuilt the alternator.  Battery is now fully charging in between 13.9 to 14 volts in Freescan.  So now I'm down to the wiring.

However, the error code 65 occurs within 4 to 6 minutes from a cold start and within 15 to 30 seconds if warm.  The CEL goes off after the car is off for few minutes.  However, it will pop up fairly quickly after restarting.

I checked the resistance on the plug wires on the harness as best I could, but I'm not an electrician.  Is it possible to get a new wiring harness for the Brown J4 plug (just wondering)?

I'm trying to contact John Welch for assistance, but I haven't heard back from him yet.  Guessing he might be on contract work or vacation.

I'm able to drive the car and there is a little bit of hesitation in 1st and 2nd gear, but not bad.  The car gets to idle faster with the new injectors.

Is it common for a loose wiring in the harness or a short?

I'm going to reread the wiring workflow in the EMH in case I missed someone.

 

Thanks, Bill

 

 

 

 

[Qavion]

It's really hard to know where to start. The wiring goes in several different directions. I wouldn't be changing a plug, though. It's in a really awkward place and you would need quality crimping tools and double jointed arms. I would be getting a set of test leads with crocodile clips on the ends and some pins you can insert into sockets so you can check resistances "hands free" (including shake checks of wiring). 

I don't understand why it takes longer for the problem to appear when the car is colder. Perhaps the ECU has to go into closed loop mode before it checks this circuit. I have a similar time-related problem on another car and I've been investigating it for weeks. On the surface the problem seems simple, but all the initial wiring checks seem ok. Also, I've changed numerous parts without success.

Unfortunately, some of the Lotus injector wiring runs through that area in the rear right hand corner of the engine bay and the wiring is almost impossible to inspect there. Any hole in a bulkhead is a possible source of chafing, especially on a car which flexes a lot.

Have you looked at all the wiring runs to see which paths they take? Does the injector wiring run anywhere near the cam belts? 

I spent a few few decades as an electrician on aircraft. Most problems were due to faulty relays, faulty computers, contamination of electrical plugs (with water, oil, hydraulic fluid, etc), chafing of wiring in high vibration areas or people being careless in wiring areas. So... all of the above

This code sounds easy to diagnose, but there may be factors we are not aware of. I wonder if the circuit is getting the right timing information. 

By the way, did you change the fuel pump relay?

 

Edited September 25, 2015 by Qavion

[sailorbob]

Check the resistance of the injectors; the specification is 2 ohms +/- 0,1 ohms at 60 deg C. Some ecu's are bit fussier than others when it comes to tolerances and show error code 65 when aftermarket injectors are fitted.

Also check the resistance of the wiring between the ecu and the injectors to see if that's affecting the total resistance of the injector circuits.

[bogle]

Ian, 

Thank you for the schematic.  That helps to track things down.

I will check the fuel pump relay this weekend.  All relays were reseated recently to make sure they had a good connection and not melted like others I've heard about on the forum.

Agree, it sounds simple but it's taken a long time (one month) just to get to the point that it appears to be related to wiring after swapping out the battery, removing/rebuilding/replacing the alternator and the new injectors.

 

Derek,

The original injectors were triggering the code 65 as well.  But thanks for letting me know about them being touchy on ECM side.  I will recheck on the new injectors.  Luckily, John W. gets back next week and hopefully he can find it if I'm unsuccessful.

 

Bill

 

 

[bogle]

Hi Guys,

I've been driving my car waiting for John W to return on the 14th.  In the meantime, I have noticed that the Fuel Pump relay is really warm after driving more than 10 miles.  The Vacuum Solenoid Valve is also very warm.  Should I be concerned?  The hoses connected to these relays are not flexible but rigid, it that right?

Thanks,

Bill

 

[fflyingdog]

The relay will get warm ,it's only only in essence a switch on or off.may be worth checking the relay tray is seating the relays securely ,they do get loose over time mine did and caused a whole myriad of problems.Bit of a faff but worth dismantling and pinching each spade grip .

[Qavion]

The fuel relay normally has constant high current flowing through it, so yes, it should be warm. I'm not sure about the solenoid valve (for the turbo). You might expect it only to be active with turbo boost above 0.6, but I'm not sure how much energy there is in the variable duty 32 Hz "square wave" AC signal going to it (at 0% duty cycle). The fuse for this is10 amps, so there must be a reasonable amount of current going through it when it is at 100%. Generally, that relay area is not known for being cool, hence the modifications on the later cars to move the relays elsewhere.

I guess the main quality for the hoses should be that they don't collapse or leak. I have replaced a few of my hoses with OEM Lotus and they are quite resistant to being squashed with fingers, but I can't say they were overly inflexible, lengthwise. Or are you talking about the very solid "L" shaped pieces attached to the top/bottom of the solenoid?

Nick, did you actually remove the sockets from the relays, or just squeezed them in-situ? Any special tooling required? I've only come across removable pins/sockets on aircraft equipment.

Bill, relays are cheap and easy to replace. In time, the internal contacts can wear out. When the contacts open and close, you get arcing, which erodes the contacts (although some relays have diodes to help prevent this).

[fflyingdog]

Hi Ian,

 I disassembled the relay tray and squeezed each relay socket (in actual fact all the relay sockets are is spade grips and mine had lost their 'pinch'),as i said a bit of a faff but possible,i found quite a few that appeared to be a tight fit on some relay legs but others were loose giving the false impression that it was a good snug fit.No special tools other than a bit of masking tape to label up,but i found mine tended to sit roughly where they came out.

Eta.Speeling

Edited October 6, 2015 by fflyingdog

[Qavion]

Thanks, Nick.

 

Bill, just a thought on the solenoid relay... I forgot there were other solenoids being powered by that, too. Also, I have my electric chargecooler pump on that fuse as well, so mine will be plenty warm.

[bogle]

And here now the news...

After seeing John Welch, it appears my issue was a fouled ECU caused by my old fuel injectors failing impedance values. With a different ECU, I've driven over 75 miles and no CEL!!!

So I went to emissions testing today and failed miserably.  My Hydrocarbons were 9x the limit.  The legal limit is .8 - mine was 6.91.  My CO (Carbon Monoxide) was double the amount.

Anyway, my question to you all is would a new cat and new muffler reduce my emission enough to pass?  I have a suspicion that my cat and muffler are history.

Please note that I will be replacing my fuel tanks with new aluminum tanks over the winter.  I believe I'll go with the Boyd tanks with the rubber mats.  I have heavy fumes (note: gas is not leaking to the ground) coming from the top right tank.  Driver side is good, but the passenger with the fuel pump is not good.  God I hate that foam around the tanks!  Still I'm going to replace both tanks, put a new compressor, dryer/ receiver and go back to R12.  Black interior is too hot in summer. R 134a doesn't have the Artic cold I'm looking for as I'm interested in meat locker temperatures.

Let me know your comments.

Thanks.

 

 

[Qavion]

my issue was a fouled ECU caused by my old fuel injectors failing impedance values.

Just to clarify... The old injectors actually damaged the ECU? Was that just the base unit or the Memcal, too?

I was led to believe that the ECU had protection against that kind of thing, but I had my doubts from time to time.

 

Sorry to hear about your other problems

[bogle]

It's just the base unit that's affected since he transferred my Memcal to a known working loaner test ECU.  So yes the troubleshooting guide in EMH was correct since a couple paths indicated faulty ECU.  I was left with either a short in the wires since everything else had been replaced (i.e. battery, alternator rebuilt, new fuel injectors, new ECU) or bad ECU.  My old ECU had a CEL for the briefest amount of time, but then went away.  It wasn't until I changed to the newer ECU that I first experienced Code 41 (which John disabled) and then immediately after that Code 65 appeared in random intervals.  ECUs are definitely finicky things.

I still need to run Freescan and see what turbo values I got now that I'm not throwing a code.

 

Ian, 

Since I'll be having an engine out service for the fuel tanks, what are the benefits of the electric chargecooler pump.  I'm guessing it's simpler to do this job with the engine out?

Do you notice a difference?

Thanks,

Bill