Low p/ex offer - V6 Cup

[Freejack]

Today you should buy every special car from Porsche you could get.

 

GT4, Spyder, all 911 GT types. There is a change in product range which says, that the 4cyl. turbo charged engines are coming for Boxster / Cayman and 6 cyl. turbos for 911.

 

Could be a well choice to have one of the last 6 cyl. induction engine ever built.

 

People say, a GT4 RS will appear. 4 cly. turbo with hybrid (dedicated to the Le Mans win)

 

On the other hand, Ferrari are even more increasing. Friend of mine bought a Testarossa 9 months ago and now he could double the price.

 

Big disadvantage with these crazy prices is, that people fear to drive them.

[alias23]

The sooner Lotus stop the 50/50 finance the better... This will kick start the second hand market and allow existing owners to gain a decent resell value. Right now no one seems to be able to sell their Exige v6 at decent money on the second hand market...

To FreeJacks point it is a real shame to see the Porsches and Ferrari market getting to the point that we won't see these cars being properly used as people 'fear' the investment risk! Let's hope the market gets real over the coming 12 months and the bubble bursts!

[Bibs]

The sooner Lotus stop the 50/50 finance the better...

 

Better for people selling their cars after 12 months. Lotus are selling most of their UK cars through this finance scheme at present, it's been a big boost for them. 

[Trevsked]

The sooner Lotus stop the 50/50 finance the better... This will kick start the second hand market and allow existing owners to gain a decent resell value. Right now no one seems to be able to sell their Exige v6 at decent money on the second hand market...

To FreeJacks point it is a real shame to see the Porsches and Ferrari market getting to the point that we won't see these cars being properly used as people 'fear' the investment risk! Let's hope the market gets real over the coming 12 months and the bubble bursts!

I hear what you are saying but can't agree. We want Lotus to do well and there needs to be more cars out on the road and the 50/50 has facilitated this. How many of us would have bought our cars had it not been for the deal? We can't take the OP's offer as an example as we all know this can be bettered and it's worst case scenario. All it means is that Lotus with the V6 is closer following the depreciation of other marques which I have read on hear that many wanted to be considered as equal but now nobody wants to take the same hit in value as those cars, you can't have it all ways. I still think Lotus depreciate slower than most other makes but maybe that's wishful thinking.

Trevor.

[CTRMint]

I'd be curious to find out if any dealers read these forums, if they do I'd very much like to hear their view on the matter.

[Arregueti]

I agree that more Lotus cars on the road is good. It would be even better if Lotus could do the 50/50 finance in Europe, too.

[simon mac]

OK I think the sooner Lotus stop doing 50/50 the better for a subtly different reason.

 

Somewhere Black Horse Finance are getting paid. Lotus probably have just stuck the costs on and are front end loading the deal. To the point it effectively makes finance mandatory. (Yes I tried getting additional discount "for cash")

 

Effectively this just means the list price goes up. Now I have no idea how much Lotus are adding to the car, but there's a good chance many could find a better deal if they had a lower list price and access to favorable loan terms.

[Trevsked]

Would that not mean that customers would ultimately end up paying the same price after interest as they would on 50/50 interest free deal?

Trevor.

[simon mac]

Would that not mean that customers would ultimately end up paying the same price after interest as they would on 50/50 interest free deal?

Trevor.

Sure, but it  depends on your situation, and how much Black Horse are charging Lotus.

 

Unlike Porsche, Mercedes, BMW et al. Lotus don't own a finance company, so Black Horse will want a cut of every car on 50/50, and it isn't just a "discount" absorbed within group.

 

We of course have no idea how much this is. Never the less, it could very well be more than you or I could get by virtue of very low deposit rates for cash buyers, or those with stuff like offset mortgages borrowing against something less risky than a car.

[CTRMint]

Guys I'm not sure the finance including the 50/50 is available on the Motorsport products, so is it entirely relevant?

I know when I bought my Cup none of the Lotus 3 model/servicing/finance deals were available on the Cup car.

[lotus34]

I'm sure you sell for a lot more privately.

What colour is yours?

I bought my 2013 Pewter Grey recently with 5k miles @ £55k from a specialist. So I thought I would have bought yours without any doubt if you advertised it 2 months ago.

Fyi, main dealers are selling their used CUP for £60k.

Just out of interest, where did you buy yours from and what's the reg on it?

[Trevsked]

Guys I'm not sure the finance including the 50/50 is available on the Motorsport products, so is it entirely relevant?

I know when I bought my Cup none of the Lotus 3 model/servicing/finance deals were available on the Cup car.

You are correct, it's not available on Motorspot items. I think though the 50/50 deal does have an effect on values of Motorsport cars the same as the regular road going cars and therefore relevant. This started because of a poor offer by a dealer chancing his arm and not wanting to support customers for future purchase. By the same token the dealer probably put the offer out there as a starting point and in actual fact probably not that far off the true value. I would think that particular car would maybe trade at late 40's, say £48k leaving the dealer to put the car on the forecourt at possibly £57k and accepting £55k maybe. Now as the car is a Cup it will have run out of warranty so will need an I dependant warranty arranged at say £700 so he's made circa £6k on a £48 k investment. Now I'm not saying the dealer isn't turning a decent profit but the car isn't for everyone and may sit on the front for 4 months and unless he's cash rich he's borrowed the money and the interest will be cutting further into his margin plus all the overheads of keeping the car clean and secure, it's also getting older by the day.

Am I talking crap? :-)

Trevor.

[The Pits]

Going back to your valuation CTRMint, no idea what the deal was in your case but presumably you didn't have to pay VAT on a car exported to the IOM? If so that's a hugely significant detail that has been left out. Not only is the depreciation far less in your case but also a UK dealer has to pay VAT if they want to buy the car outright and bring it back to the UK. The new price without VAT is somewhere around £55k. In that case a £45k offer is not at all unreasonable. The dealer would have to pay £9k VAT and work off a £54k break even price.

No idea what the full story is in your case and apologies if I've got that completely wrong but I really think it should have been mentioned if it is the case.

[Barrykearley]

You are correct, it's not available on Motorspot items. I think though the 50/50 deal does have an effect on values of Motorsport cars the same as the regular road going cars and therefore relevant. This started because of a poor offer by a dealer chancing his arm and not wanting to support customers for future purchase. By the same token the dealer probably put the offer out there as a starting point and in actual fact probably not that far off the true value. I would think that particular car would maybe trade at late 40's, say £48k leaving the dealer to put the car on the forecourt at possibly £57k and accepting £55k maybe. Now as the car is a Cup it will have run out of warranty so will need an I dependant warranty arranged at say £700 so he's made circa £6k on a £48 k investment. Now I'm not saying the dealer isn't turning a decent profit but the car isn't for everyone and may sit on the front for 4 months and unless he's cash rich he's borrowed the money and the interest will be cutting further into his margin plus all the overheads of keeping the car clean and secure, it's also getting older by the day.

Am I talking crap? :-)

Trevor.

Complete non-crap statement.

I'm afraid the dealer needs to make a profit. It's the nature of the market. You buy a new car - I'm afraid it drops like a stone in value in the first year. It is not a phenomenon unique to lotus.

A dealer retails a car - takes full commercial liability for it - that is not free of risk or cost.

The best secure investment for your money if you are that worried - stuff it in your mattress and tell no one,,,,,,,,,

[Mark Blanchard]

My advice is never buy a new car unless you want to keep it for a long time.  Otherwise, unless you're a millionaire and don't give a $hit or you just want to waste your money then don't buy one.  I've never bought a new car in my 42 years and never intend too.  And just so you know, HMRC define cars as a wasting asset.

[Barrykearley]

The hmrc see cars as a wasting asset - so I'm afraid there's a clue there...... Rarely do they not go down in value - and the first years always the killer..

Exactly

[Mark Blanchard]

Didn't see your post.  I read that on the Mustang forum from a member who was a Financial adviser.  I'm even more going to not going to buy a new car!!

[Barrykearley]

That is why you can buy a Ferrari for £1M then sell it for £2.5M and pay absolutely no tax on the gain..........

Just wish I had the £1M and knew which one to buy!

[simon mac]

Going back to your valuation CTRMint, no idea what the deal was in your case but presumably you didn't have to pay VAT on a car exported to the IOM? If so that's a hugely significant detail that has been left out. Not only is the depreciation far less in your case but also a UK dealer has to pay VAT if they want to buy the car outright and bring it back to the UK. The new price without VAT is somewhere around £55k. In that case a £45k offer is not at all unreasonable. The dealer would have to pay £9k VAT and work off a £54k break even price.

No idea what the full story is in your case and apologies if I've got that completely wrong but I really think it should have been mentioned if it is the case.

 

I'm pretty sure IOM has VAT agreements with UK, so not necessarily true in the same way as Jersey/Guernsey.

 

Out of interest are Cups WVTA for EEC Conformity? (My logic here being lack of airbags changes the crash test results, compared to the standard V6S, hence only being sold by Motorsport and under the 2k car limit for approval for a single "manufacturer")

[Bazza 907]

Buy a Ferrari for £1m and sell for £2m....?

 

Fine if you buy and get out before the music stops and the market goes pop.

 

Exactly the same happened in the last classic car bubble that burst in 1989. 

[The Pits]

Yes it peaked with a 328 going for £197k - in 1989! Even now he still wouldn't get his money back. Buyer beware!

I've recently heard of a testarossa with an asking price of over £300k! For the last 20 years it's been 50k for a really good one. When the free money machine runs out of steam there we are going to see the true meaning of horrific depreciation!

[Trevsked]

:-) that's true, will make the original post figures look like an attractive proposition. Not sure it's any time soon though.

Trevor.

[V6Cup]

We're a funny bunch us Lotus owners, talking down the values of our cars. Whilst I don't want to drive a Pork their owners seem to be very successful in talking UP the values of theirs..!

 

I can't help but think the OP has shot himself in the foot here. As I see it one cheeky trade bid does not capture the value of the car and the subsequent panic implied in the title of the thread does none of us any favours. Don't forget we are talking a Motorsport product here which traditionally have always held very firm in terms of pricing - they are limited supply and special cars.   

 

Of the four Cup cars I know of that have changed hands on the used market, one has gone in the 55 - 60 bracket, 2 have gone at 55K and one (the white Hethel demonstrator car) for between 50 and 55. 

 

There is a different market for these cars where 50/50 deals on standard V6s has no bearing whatsoever. Yes it is a smaller market but I have no doubt whatsoever that there is a buyer for this car well into the 50K mark who understands the product and is aware of what else is out there in this price bracket (not much) which competes with it.   

[Bibs]

I've changed the title, it's more appropriate.

[Trevsked]

We're a funny bunch us Lotus owners, talking down the values of our cars. Whilst I don't want to drive a Pork their owners seem to be very successful in talking UP the values of theirs..!

 

I can't help but think the OP has shot himself in the foot here. As I see it one cheeky trade bid does not capture the value of the car and the subsequent panic implied in the title of the thread does none of us any favours. Don't forget we are talking a Motorsport product here which traditionally have always held very firm in terms of pricing - they are limited supply and special cars.   

 

Of the four Cup cars I know of that have changed hands on the used market, one has gone in the 55 - 60 bracket, 2 have gone at 55K and one (the white Hethel demonstrator car) for between 50 and 55. 

 

There is a different market for these cars where 50/50 deals on standard V6s has no bearing whatsoever. Yes it is a smaller market but I have no doubt whatsoever that there is a buyer for this car well into the 50K mark who understands the product and is aware of what else is out there in this price bracket (not much) which competes with it.   

Was anyone talking down values?

 

Trevor.