Aerodynamics

[hast2]

Found this recently!!

Are they serious?

Some people have to much time and money to spare

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.a...mp;f=17&h=0

[Tentenths]

This, from 'green_meanie', made me smile...

"So!

Lets get this straight.

Your Lotus Esprit is a...

Fuel wasting

Badly designed

Poorly constructed

unstable (at any speed)

parts bin kit car

FFS why did you buy it??????????????????????????????????????

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Teigan you're a tit !"

[molemot]

Wondered what had happened to Teigan since he seems to have disappeared from this forum....obviously got his maths head on and looks to be enjoying it! Would be interesting to see what design he comes up with for his undertray.

[Advantage]

That's a typical Pistonheads thread on the Esprit forum. People that post on Pistonheads are a right buch of weirdos. Oh, er, hang on, er...bugger.

[chats371l]

I have just read the forum entry and you have to admit that it is rather amusing. You would think by the way he is going on that this Teigan guy is planning on taking his Esprit into outer space at some point in the future.

[Paul93Lotus]

I have just read the forum entry and you have to admit that it is rather amusing. You would think by the way he is going on that this Teigan guy is planning on taking his Esprit into outer space at some point in the future.

There are some real tools on there.

I remember when I first bought my Esprit.....

read this...all because I asked if there was a cheaper way to obtain the service manual than through Lotus...

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.a...;hw=Paul93Lotus

Some real jerks on there....I even got my topic closed. Nice way to welcome new blood. Just go there now for comic relief.

Edited January 29, 2007 by Paul93Lotus

[Simon350S]

ROFL!!! Nice to see Teigan is still an ASS!!!!! But this time hes not annoying us!!!! LOL

I can laugh now but there was a time I could have decked him!!!!

Your better off in here Paul by the sounds of it!!!!

Simon

[arbell9]

This web page to me seems to suggest that lotus had a pretty good grasp of car aero dynamics and wind tunnel testing.

http://www.grandprix.com/ft/ftpw021.html

Next, this Teigan (thats a girls name I think, google it and you will see) will be telling us he has actually made a Flux Capacitor after studiously watching back to the future 332 times and has found that time travel is possible but only if its installed in a Vauxhall Chevette and not a delorean, concluding that following an in depth windtunnel testing process, the chevette could reach the desired 88 mph before running out of road ....and also but more importantly that peeing into the wind makes you wet and warm!

I hope Darwinism takes effect soon on this bloke (tell me his gene pool hasnt been propagted!)

Alex

[Bibs]

Jimmy the Saint is no better...

http://lotuscarclub.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1091#1091

[Jonathan]

LOL I was genuinly interested

I was always under the impression the S1 was comparable to a brick aerodynamicly - it's been a while since I read that book, I recal they were really upset with it. Same with the S1 Elise much to the annoyance of Julian Thompson, esp when they re-done his back end

OK F1 stuff was different but road cars dont have to be an aerodynamic masterpiece esp at the expense of looks and styling.

I'd love to get one of the cars into a wind tunnel sometime, I wonder what model he used as well - I would have thought you need something of about 1/10th scale or larger to really get a good idea.

[cly_mitchell]

I don't know man, this Teigan guy may have a point. Think about that gutless John Player Special, and the 7. Lotus may not know what they are doing. :

Did Chevy call on Lotus to design one hell of an engine, that Chevy coud'nt even build, for the ZR-1 Corvette because of thier slip shot reputation?

Did Ford ask for suspension design on the GT because Lotus cars are un-stable at any speed?

This guy is right. I don't have to wait for his test. I'm taking my car to the scap yard today.

[98GT3]

Jimmy the Saint is no better...

http://lotuscarclub.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1091#1091

Am I right??? did the saint join the other forum over two years later just to slag you off Bibs - I'm just going by the dates and the fact that he has only made those two posts in total!

Phil

98GT3

[dodgy]

rules

Bibs

got to admit, his posts do bring a smile - sometimes

Edited January 29, 2007 by Dodgy

[V8Esprit73]

I'd love to get one of the cars into a wind tunnel sometime, I wonder what model he used as well - I would have thought you need something of about 1/10th scale or larger to really get a good idea.

You're right, 1/10th or larger is whats needed to get a realistic understanding of the flow etc.

I don't think he's actually using a model, seems more like a software package judging by the picture he's posted.

[Vulcan Grey]

You're right, 1/10th or larger is whats needed to get a realistic understanding of the flow etc.

I don't think he's actually using a model, seems more like a software package judging by the picture he's posted.

What? no... the Computer CFD simulation was me "Lotusse89". I was playing around with ANSYS MultiPhysics with various changes of the wing, tailgate, and front airdam configuration. I ran out of time with the software cause it was $24,000 per year lease or $74,000 for a license. I just posted that cause Teigan is an all knowing A$$.

Teigan used a bar of soap he carved to matchbox sized esprit wedge....

Edited January 30, 2007 by Vulcan Grey

[Tony K]

I admit not knowing anything about the Esprit's aerodynamic design (or a lot about aerodynamics in general), but I was always under the impression that the Esprit's (S1) body was designed to produce downforce at speed, but it was at the expense of drag, and that is why it does not perform as well in acceleration and top speed as one would expect, especially comparing the power-to-weight ratio with the similar-engined Elite and Eclat. Am I waaaaay off in thinking this?

[wiseraven]

What? no... the Computer CFD simulation was me "Lotusse89". I was playing around with ANSYS MultiPhysics with various changes of the wing, tailgate, and front airdam configuration. I ran out of time with the software cause it was $24,000 per year lease or $74,000 for a license. I just posted that cause Teigan is an all knowing A$$.

Teigan used a bar of soap he carved to matchbox sized esprit wedge....

Interesting. Does that show pressure contours with red=high, green=ambient, blue=low? If so, it doesn't look right to me (disclaimer: I only did basic aerodynamics as part of a private pilot's license course). That big red blob suggests a whopping amount of downforce where the air is moving fastest (because it's stretched over the car), and should therefore be at lower pressure.

One of my workmates is going out with a professor in the field of fluid dynamics (he briefly achieved national notoriety for his back-of-an-envelope analysis of the effect of all of the George Cross flags on cars at the time of the soccer World Cup - being Italian didn't help his cause!). I'll try to persuade him to pass comment - it would be interesting to hear his views rather than those of someone widely regarded as a moron (I'm too new round here to have my own opinion).

Phil

[Vulcan Grey]

Interesting. Does that show pressure contours with red=high, green=ambient, blue=low? If so, it doesn't look right to me (disclaimer: I only did basic aerodynamics as part of a private pilot's license course). That big red blob suggests a whopping amount of downforce where the air is moving fastest (because it's stretched over the car), and should therefore be at lower pressure.

One of my workmates is going out with a professor in the field of fluid dynamics (he briefly achieved national notoriety for his back-of-an-envelope analysis of the effect of all of the George Cross flags on cars at the time of the soccer World Cup - being Italian didn't help his cause!). I'll try to persuade him to pass comment - it would be interesting to hear his views rather than those of someone widely regarded as a moron (I'm too new round here to have my own opinion).

Phil

Actually that's Velocity not pressure.

Yeah that was an early test, and the wind tunnel ceiling was too low, compressing the air above the car... Ignore all that...

I had actually modeled all of the different wing configs (SE, 92 SE high wing, 91 X180-R, 93 taller SE wing, 94 S4, 95 S4s-97V8, 98+V8, 99 Sport 350). Then I had the different tailgate configs (glass back SE and notch back 92SE-04V8). And I had the normal SE front air dam, and deep air dams of the X180-R and Sport 350.

The glass back of the SE caused early separation and turbulence before the rear wing, and little down force. The later cars notchback caused a recirculation zone with smoother integrated airflow into the wing, and effective down force from below the car.

Edited January 30, 2007 by Vulcan Grey

[USAndretti42]

Was he planning to design an undertray without testing in a moving ground wind-tunnel? That doesn't seem right. Also it sounded like he was running a home-made CFD simulation on his own computer. It's my understanding that a normal Fluent CFD half car model (assumes the car is symmetrical) has 12 million plus cells in the mesh used for the simulation which needs a big computer or an array of computers to do the sums. I would suggest that his computer model was probably next to useless.

[V8Esprit73]

What? no... the Computer CFD simulation was me "Lotusse89". I was playing around with ANSYS MultiPhysics with various changes of the wing, tailgate, and front airdam configuration. I ran out of time with the software cause it was $24,000 per year lease or $74,000 for a license. I just posted that cause Teigan is an all knowing A$$.

Teigan used a bar of soap he carved to matchbox sized esprit wedge....

Ahh my apologies for mixing up who'd posted that picture!

It didn't look like the results i have for similar studies but you've explained it in later posts.

I saw the PH rubbish ages ago, for a guy that supposedly owns a Lotus he does a damned good job of hating every last bit of it.

Leave him to it "over there" he'll end up talking to what seems to be his favorite audience - HIMSELF!

[Bibs]

rules

Bibs

got to admit, his posts do bring a smile - sometimes

Read your sig

[WayneB]

Tiegans vast knowledge of aerodynamic principles must come in really handy when hes designing his ladies handbags

Edited January 30, 2007 by WayneB

[Vulcan Grey]

Tiegans vast knowledge of aerodynamic principles must come in really handy when hes designing his ladies handbags

NIIICCCEEE Wayne! Too bad he'll never see your masterpiece. We could email it to him?

[Tentenths]

Look's like Wayne's just lobbed a bloody great rock into the P'heads pond

Edited January 30, 2007 by Tentenths

[WayneB]

I couldnt resist !