The Evora 400 Diaries

[Stuno1]

17 minutes ago, JayEmm said:

It's a really great car, I just cannot stomach paying over the odds for a Cayman that should not be a limited edition car. The other James was very complimentary about the Evora, we had a discussion later which was off camera and he said it was a very hard car to fault - considering he's someone who has had a string of German cars you would think that is high praise. Likewise him saying the Evora's interior was not an issue - it's a reason oft cited for people not liking the car, but not every Porsche owner feels the same!

Also, I seem to see Cayman GT4s fairly regularly on runs but the Evora is still a genuinely rare car that starts a lot of nice conversations with petrolheads

This. He wants a rare car but the fact is they are not that rare. Not as rare as an Evora on any case. Not entirely fair but on a recent trip to the ring I saw 15 ish of them. 

[JayEmm]

To be fair that is like going to Wymondham and saying "blimey, these Lotus are a bit common"

I've never seen more Porsche GTs together anywhere than at the ring. And that includes the Porsche factory!

[Danelaw]

Just had quick look on fleabay and there are plenty of Cayman GT4s for sale. I didn't bother counting but at a guess there are more GT4s for sale there than 400s so they look more common on a popular auction site too. Judging by the near zero miles on these GT4s they were all bought by speculators rather than enthusiasts that wanted to actually drive them. I wouldn't normally wish ill on anybody, but I do feel that speculators drive up prices for enthusiasts so I would not want to support their inflated prices by ever paying over list.

[chylld]

 

2 hours ago, JayEmm said:

Thanks @chylld. Seven seconds is a fair difference. The GT4 has a large amount more downforce than the 400, which should make itself known on track. It's stiffer too, much stiffer - again, great on track. Those tyres will help aswell, as will the weight difference. SMP looks like a technical track, lots of corners - tyres are going to be making a significant contribution there.

The thing that surprised me was how the 400 handled sudden changes of direction... the back steps out way too easily. I had several oversteer moments throughout the day, none of which were power-induced. I'd like to think I just haven't found the right way to drive it yet, but changing battery to a lighter LiFePo4 one and maybe even stealing the CF trunk lid from the 410 might be on the cards!

4 minutes ago, Danelaw said:

Judging by the near zero miles on these GT4s they were all bought by speculators rather than enthusiasts that wanted to actually drive them. I wouldn't normally wish ill on anybody, but I do feel that speculators drive up prices for enthusiasts so I would not want to support their inflated prices by ever paying over list.

The plus side is that enthusiasts who do buy a GT4 enjoy stronger residuals, meaning a lower cost of ownership for the car. A car that costs $220k (Aussie pricing) that will sell for $200k down the track is cheaper than a car that costs $200k but is worth $150k once you drive it off the lot.

[JayEmm]

The strange thing is I heard from numerous places that many of these cars we are paying over-the-odds for here, the dealers were actually discounting in Germany.

It's interesting if you look back in the past how many "limited edition" and rare cars were never actually that limited, they just didn't sell well to begin with!

[Danelaw]

19 minutes ago, chylld said:

The plus side is that enthusiasts who do buy a GT4 enjoy stronger residuals, meaning a lower cost of ownership for the car.

I take that point, but the residuals should be strong because it's a good car and not because the prices became over-inflated by speculators. 

[chylld]

Agree. Unfortunately the market is what it is, and you have to respect market forces (supply/demand) when considering the financial side of the equation. I suspect the general car enthusiast market wants the hardcore version of a luxury sports brand, rather than the luxury sports version of the hardcore brand.

Of course that didn't stop me from choosing the 400 anyway The GT4 won't get up my driveway, and doesn't have a rear seat for little ones. As James said in his video, it's ultimately the little things like these that swing the decision as they are both wicked machines.

[JayEmm]

Yes - I expect the reaction to an Evora is worth the price of admission alone in some places. It gets masses of attention here, hardly 50 miles from the factory!

[Danelaw]

This is an aspect of ownership which can only really be explained by experience. I suspect a devoted Porsche fan would need to buy a 918 to get an equivalent experience in this respect!

[JayEmm]

I once attended a car show a few doors down from a Carrera GT - got more attention than it, no idea how

[chylld]

It has more immediate visual punch, also helps that your car is yellow  CGT is better appreciated by petrolheads.

I struggled with what I wanted out of my 400 but gained clarity over the past month.

At Cars and Coffee I was relegated to the 'poverty' area (mind, cutoff was ~BMW M3). I understood and respected the organisers' decisions, but I was still felt incredibly butthurt for some reason. I was jealous of the attention received by the star of the event (a McLaren 675LT) and mentally committed to getting a McLaren again. 2 days after the event I couldn't really care less though as I had no interest in joining the poser crowd.

Then at the track there were multiple 675LTs, GT3RSs, Huracans... driven by properly-skilled drivers. The atmosphere was totally different; there was no gawking over cars or leaving doors up for photos. Instead, the day was all about maximising the capabilities of drivers and their cars, pushing braking points, using more kerbs, watching laptimes tumble. Nearly 2 weeks after this event and I am more pumped than ever.

I think there are different levels of ownership. Buying to pose, buying to enjoy, and buying to develop as a driver. As much of a head-turner the car is, and as much as I enjoy letting friends/strangers check out the car, my focus has shifted almost entirely to how the car can help me become faster and how I can use the car to the fullest of the abilities crafted back at Hethel.

[Bibs]

1 hour ago, chylld said:

The thing that surprised me was how the 400 handled sudden changes of direction... the back steps out way too easily.

I'd have the tyre pressures then geo checked if I were you. The back is lively but only when prompted, not by its own volition. 

[C8RKH]

@chylld@chylld My, granted, very biased view is that 90% of people who buy a Porsche do so for the badge and what they percieve the badge says about. Oooops, where did  put those coffee beans.

10% by them for driving and driving focused ownership experience. Fairy nuff.

I don't think anyone really buys a Lotus for Badge snobbery. it is usually about the drive, history, ethos, club etc.

I tend to get on with Lotus owners. Just seem to be enthusiasts. Most Porsche owners I know are qute frankly just knobs and view their Porsche like some women view a Prada handbag.

Now as the McLaren. yes please. Don't care what anyone says or thinks. Just yes!

[chylld]

What I was alluding to in my last post is that I no longer care about what anyone else thinks about my car

For me the "benefit" of a car is how much I enjoy driving it, as well as how much it will let me develop as a driver.

The "cost" is the total cost of ownership, which is determined by market forces. Limited this, badge that, whatever.

Whatever badge snobbery / handbag posing game others are playing, all I see now are different car options that are stepping stones upwards to my goal of being the best driver I can possibly be.

I'm currently in an Evora 400 and was recently seriously contemplating an upgrade to a 991.2 Carrera 2S. It is faster than the 400 but would cost more as well.

A McLaren 540C is much faster than the 911, but total cost of ownership would likely be quite similar, so that is my next stepping stone. Once I max the performance of the 400 (with the excellent pitcrew support we get here from the Lotus dealer/race team) I will upgrade to track rubber, max that, then buy the McLaren.

/braindump

[PaulCP]

17 minutes ago, C8RKH said:

 

I don't think anyone really buys a Lotus for Badge snobbery. it is usually about the drive, history, ethos, club etc.

I tend to get on with Lotus owners. Just seem to be enthusiasts. Most Porsche owners I know are qute frankly just knobs 

Hmmmm, depends which forum you are on,.

Try putting a post on the playground that, as a Lotus owner you have just bought a VX220, then stand back for the hurricane of abuse coming your way 

[geartox]

@JayEmm  Thank you for the video comparison. It's finally more interesting to get feedback from car's owner than from a "journalist" expert.

Edited November 20, 2016 by geartox

[Barrykearley]

That's nowt - try posting up here you've bought a Porsche ......worse still a broken v8 esprit 

8 minutes ago, PaulCP said:

Hmmmm, depends which forum you are on,.

Try putting a post on the playground that, as a Lotus owner you have just bought a VX220, then stand back for the hurricane of abuse coming your way 

 

[C8RKH]

25 minutes ago, PaulCP said:

Hmmmm, depends which forum you are on,.

Try putting a post on the playground that, as a Lotus owner you have just bought a VX220, then stand back for the hurricane of abuse coming your way 

Been there. Done that and got no flaming!

@chylld@chylld I applaud your approach and in my cack handed way was agreeing with you it is about the driving experience in my view first, and not posing outside a coffee shop.

I doubt I'll ever buy a Porsche, the image is too entwined with knobs and cocks in my warped and twisted head.

If I could work my man maths and shut down the small logic component in it, I'd be in a McLaren in a heartbeat.

However, I don't think I'd ever have the balls to drive a £150k car full on on the track. I certainly do not have the skills. But hey, that's why I bought a lowly superb VX220, to learn and push hard on the track.

Best of luck with becoming the best driver you can be. I really mean that and am envious of your journey.

[JayEmm]

I think there's an interesting philosophical question being raised here. It pertains to "the thrill of driving". It may be, in some cases, that is attained simply by going faster and faster.

For others it might be that it's more about the "sensation of speed" - you get a lot of people who will enjoy Caterhams etc... because you don't need to be going especially fast to get the car a bit sideways or have the wind blowing you around, etc..

Most of us will be in the middle somewhere. One thing I'd really, really like to see @chylld is for you to get a Komotec 460 upgrade. About £4,000-ish here and for that you get a HUGE power boost - nearly 20%, as well as a 20% torque hike. I bet that will make a fair bit of difference to how the Evora goes.

[Danelaw]

Having just watched the full GT4 vs 400 video (didn't have time to watch it all properly earlier), I have to ask if you both drove the same route?

I ask because although you remarked on how good the GT4 ride was, on the footage you seem to be jiggling about more than the chap driving your Lotus. Similarly, unless I misheard you commented that the GT4 was perhaps quieter, but on the footage there seemed to be more road noise at times with the GT4. It's quite possible that this is just due to the road surface for the final cuts.

I liked your conclusions even if it is a cop out. Thanks for doing these videos - comparison with a McLaren next? Until the 540 was released the nearest Mclaren competitor price wise was a pram, and the Lotus would beat that on all tests except parking. Talking of which GT4 without camera or parking sensors - WOW! Noticed you hadn't reversed it in for the final shots!

[JayEmm]

I reversed it in for the opening shot! I reshot the whole conclusion as I got home, looked at it and wasn't happy with it. Rather than trying to re-create my opening shot I just did a different setup.

With regards to your comments - yes we drove both on the same route, although some of the exterior shots I cheated and did elsewhere as we did those before the test. Any noticeable difference in shake is due to the fact I'm not very lean, or the fact that the edit means we were using different bits of road to talk (I drove his car further than he drove mine)

When I said quieter, that was mostly referring to engine/exhaust noise - it was noticeably quieter in the Porsche. I would love to do a McLaren comparison, it isn't going to be very fair, but I would be very keen to see what your extra £100k (or thereabouts) gets you. Or if there are any areas the Lotus scores higher.

[chylld]

6 hours ago, JayEmm said:

One thing I'd really, really like to see @chylld is for you to get a Komotec 460 upgrade. About £4,000-ish here and for that you get a HUGE power boost - nearly 20%, as well as a 20% torque hike. I bet that will make a fair bit of difference to how the Evora goes.

More power results in lower laptimes, but as it pertains to my goals it just extends the envelope of the car out a tiny bit and apart from changing my braking points and how gradually I apply the throttle coming out of corners, it doesn't really help me advance as a driver. Especially compared to R-compound tyres and balance/suspension/aero changes.

On the other hand, if I was just after driving enjoyment, I think it would be a worthwhile upgrade

[Danelaw]

For me the lack of parking sensors and a camera on a road car costing over £50k is inexcusable. When I started looking at Evoras I decided the camera was important to me, and they're now common on small hatchbacks costing a fraction of these supercars and having better rear visibility. I guess it may not matter for some people, but I can't see myself buying a new car for road use without sensors and a camera now.

The cost to the car manufacturer must be tiny and the weight can't be much either. I can't help thinking the journalists would slate Lotus for an omission like that, but wouldn't dare with some other brands. 

[JayEmm]

It was a very weird omission. The owner told me you couldnt even get them specced. And you really really want them if you are going to use the car every day

[swanny71]

Just enjoyed watching the 400/GT4 video, best one yet mate.