Esprit Turbo project car - part3 - the further continuation

[Lotusfab]

Bought the Landrover slave. It's aluminium and seems quite well made. Externally it's as near as identical. The supply thread connector is smaller, which we know. But interestingly the hole leading from the inlet to the piston is smaller! This will effect the flow rate of fluid in and out of the chamber. Whether it will have any effect my gut feeling is no. Has anyone run their car with a Landrover slave? If not back to plan A -refurb the Girling!

All my powder coating is back and all the new bushes! It's like being in a sweetie shop! But oh, where to begin!

The lads at Aurora powder coating Aldershot have done a superb job. My header tank is like new, as are all the other bits. Every component on the car will have been zinc plated or powder coated! Will have to start pressing all the bushes in!

[Lotusfab]

x

[naasaa]

Are bushes all poly?

Lars

[jonroberts]

2 hours ago, Lotusfab said:

Bought the Landrover slave. It's aluminium and seems quite well made. Externally it's as near as identical. The supply thread connector is smaller, which we know. But interestingly the hole leading from the inlet to the piston is smaller! This will effect the flow rate of fluid in and out of the chamber. Whether it will have any effect my gut feeling is no. Has anyone run their car with a Landrover slave? If not back to plan A -refurb the Girling!

All my powder coating is back and all the new bushes! It's like being in a sweetie shop! But oh, where to begin!

The lads at Aurora powder coating Aldershot have done a superb job. My header tank is like new, as are all the other bits. Every component on the car will have been zinc plated or powder coated! Will have to start pressing all the bushes in!

Come on then Fabian - we're desperate to see the new power coated bits - post some photos !  On the clutch slave I suppose it might make the pedal return a little slower due to the reduced flow, but just fit it and find out, you have plenty of other jobs to be getting on with now.. :-)

[Lotusfab]

Some bushes are poly and some old school. They are getting awkward to find these days for dry sumps! Yep,your right Jon will have to try it. Build quality is fab for such a low cost and it's all aluminium! Will stick some powder coat picture on. There are boxes of bits and I have just taken a lot more. They are all wrapped in plastic and a hole box of zinc parts! It's so reasonably priced it's not worth the effort of doing it yourself. Their finish is hard to beat. Parts return as new! 

[910Esprit]

2 hours ago, Lotusfab said:

Bought the Landrover slave. It's aluminium and seems quite well made. Externally it's as near as identical. The supply thread connector is smaller, which we know. But interestingly the hole leading from the inlet to the piston is smaller! This will effect the flow rate of fluid in and out of the chamber. Whether it will have any effect my gut feeling is no. Has anyone run their car with a Landrover slave? If not back to plan A -refurb the Girling!

Yes I run one on my fully used Turbo - not just for pottering about on 35yo tyres.....   Clutch & pedal feel is identical in all respects.   I suspect they are quite widely used as replacements now, when compared to the price of an original.   (Have you checked SJ's price list....)        

[Lotusfab]

Thanks Steve, good to know.

[Lotusfab]

Want a sweetie? This is about 2/3 of the parts the rest is in a second batch. All the other components mostly new, unless they are perfect or better than the replacement part!"

[Lotusfab]

Update

second batch of powder coating finished. Only a few more parts and the entire car will,have been done. I dropped the car to Neil at Thompson Body repair today. We had a detailed look at the paint. We compared test cards of the Lotus colour,self tinted colour and a Chrysler colour. The original colour is quite flat and not very metallic. In my opinion the Lotus colour has two much metallic compared with the original and looks lighter in sunlight. But I also think it looks better than the original paint, newer and fresher. For me the problem is I am building an exact Bond car and the paint must look flat like 1978 paint. Surprisingly, the closest match Neil has is a Chrysler colour. It's very very close but I think we can do exact. So it's over to the specialists. Hopefully the results will be an exact match. You may be shocked when you see this car as it will be very different looking to those that have gone before! I have six weeks to get the chassis rolling for the body. I think the engine will have to go back in after the body is on as there is no way it will be rebuilt in time. It's like changing rooms and the pressure is on!

[Fridge]

Be very careful with what you are matching it to Fabian. Unless you have definitive examples from the original Bond car, the films, publicity stills etc will all be colour processed depending upon their onward use.

I heard recently that FYEO had potentially 2 copper cars, with the interior shots being done with a car other than the one used on location. Copper Fire seems such a vague and rare colour it's likely there is not a definitive shade. With the cars being essentially props, the director and production editing team would be more concerned with the shots as a whole and the car colour differences being lost in the grade or detail.

If you haven't got the actual Bond car to work with would you not be best going from the actual paint mix information? Otherwise you are chasing a moving target so to speak.

 

Edited July 20, 2017 by Fridge

[Andyww]

About the colour though, surely paint suppliers would have the formula for whatever the paint code was on the bond car? 

Then they would be able to match what it was when it was new rather than paint the car to match aged paint? Do we know what the paint code on the bond car was?

Edit: My post overlapped Davids above and I think we are essentially saying the same.

 

[Fridge]

Exactly @Andyww

Yes, the code and paint mix is available.

[Andyww]

What was the code, was it A19?

That seems to be the only copper in the list in the service notes which is not clear over basecoat. AFAIK Lotus only started to use clear over basecoat in around 1987.

[Lotusfab]

Thanks Chaps. I have the original Copper fIre fuel cap Matt lent me. It has a laquer coat which has gone milky. A small section has been thinned to reveal the original colour. We have compared the samples I mentioned to this original cap. The Lotus paint code is very different. It looks very similar without sunlight. As soon as light is on it it appears much lighter. If you look closely the density of metallic is much higher in the A19 Lotus paint formula than the original. You've just given me an idea. I should have taken a microscopic picture and posted the results. Then you could see the difference.

Matts cap is clear over basecoat and is from about 1981?

[Andyww]

Are you sure that is original paint as I dont think they were using clear lacquer at that time.

But I dont see how you can tell what the paint looked like out of the factory by looking at a 35 year old sample of paint. The metallic surely would look less pronounced owing to age. Its got to be better to have it match new from the formula rather than 35 year old paint surely? 

Lotus would have painted the bond car originally using their paint code formula, not some special variation.

[Lotusfab]

I have a sample of the A19 paint. The fuel cap is totally original. It definitely has a clear layer over base. The clear had gone milky. We have polished a tiny area to reveal a darker original metallic paint below. The edges of the cap have not faded and the polished area is darker. The A19 colour looks to be a good match indoors. In sunlight though it's too shinney because it's too metallic, so it looks lighter. If you look closely the metallic flecks in the new A19 paint are different. There are either more if them or they are larger. The number and size of the metal flecks determine how metallic it is and I think this should not be afffected by age as they are Aluminium powder flecks? A company that specialises in paint matching is producing a formulation. Hopefully this will match. the Chrysler paint code is almost identical to the A19 indoors but matches much better in sunlight as It has less metallic flecks and closely matches the original in size and density. 

If you magnified the paint you should be able to count the density and estimate the size of the Aluminium Flecks. I may try this before the final decision is made.

[Dan E]

What I love Fabian is that you are the only person in the world that will know, including everyone on here, I might do my wife's family tree you are both related at some point in history. 

[Lotusfab]

????????????

PS if there are any paint experts on here I would value any input? Does the A19 code break down into constituent weights of components and Aluminium pigment? Maybe the Metallic powder has changed since 1980?

[stephenwhyte]

Andy makes an interesting point about the paint on the petrol cap having lacquer on it and he's probably relating to his white Turbo not having any lacquer. Most paints would not have had lacquer back in the early 80's and for reference my red Turbo has no lacquer on it. But I wouldn't expect it to have it either - I'm wondering though if a Metallic paint such as Copper Fire had lacquer, hence why this cap has it? 

[Andyww]

14 minutes ago, stephenwhyte said:

 I'm wondering though if Metallic paints had lacquer, hence why this cap has it? 

Ah, it looks like the service notes are misleading. The paint codes list the ones which have clear lacquer and A19 is not one of them. But I think you are right, the met colours must have had lacquer.

The ICI part number is listed as P4220311 and the data sheet for the P422 paints states they are basecoats:

https://buyat.ppg.com/Refinish_SSA/Common/ShowPdf.aspx?AppId=2&BrandId=1&LanguageId=en-GB&IntDialCode=44&PdfId=6163&ProductCode='P422'

But that raises another issue which is the basecoat with lacquer missing is going to look different to the same paint with lacquer. 

[stephenwhyte]

I'm sure whatever Fabian chooses will be right as he's not one to do things wrong from what I understand, and his efforts to get things the way they should be have to be applauded. I can't wait to see it painted........but maybe do a little area first to test & be sure.

[Lotusfab]

I have seen the polished section of fuel cap. The outer surface is milky but shines and where it's polished is clear and shines. Neil told me it has a clear coating which has turned milky with age. Matts car had never been resprayed. Conclusion there's a coating over the base. Would a metallic base shine without a clear coat? Any thoughts or expert knowledge much appreciated. May call Lotus and ask them. 

[Fridge]

I really think you need to take a look at how metallic paints were applied in the 1970's, having owned a car from that period.

I certainly wouldn't base your opinion on a petrol cap. It will have aged for starters, being in sunlight. It's not conclusive of the original colour IMO.

[Lotusfab]

Taking it back to basics. The metallic is simply metal flecks in the paint. If these did not have a clear coat you would have to buff the surface to make it shine. Surley this would expose the flecks that would then degrade? I think there must be a clear coat over Metallic which is buffed to give it a shine. 

I have done some research, but stand to be corrected. I believe a paint code like A19 would be different depending on which manufacturer made it. The variance would be very small. But what about changes in the metal pigment? Maybe a match for  the original paint could be achieved using A19 and reducing the metal content to match the original? Maybe find out the metallic pigment part of the Chrysler paint,, which looks very close and combine this with the A19 code?

Hopefully this is achedemic and the experts will get a perfect match over the next few days. Will post here if they do!

[TAR]

I think it's great that you are having this debate. It's all great food for thought. 

The interest in such a small detail just goes to show how much people want to support your efforts.