Esprit Turbo project car - part3 - the further continuation

[Lotusfab]

Thanks lads, will make a list. If there's anything anyone else would like me to check out? Not sure how helpful the museum will be, but fingers crossed! 

[Andyww]

Areas such as under door seals, edges etc might show signs of previous paint. Problem is, primer will show as white.

What would be a real giveaway is if they didnt bother to repaint the under-bonnet area or some such.

Also does the bonnet, which is an HC one, exactly match the paint on the rest of the car?

On and of course check the paint code on the VIN plate!

[PhilW]

My cars have a lot of overspray on the underside and also behind rear lightclusters and number plate.  If the car was returned to the factory for a respray then its likely areas were just masked off which may mean original overspray is still visible.

I wonder how helpful they will be.  If they get someone being too inquistive they may think someone is trying to show their exhibit is not genuine.  I would say that is possible.

Good luck Fabian!

[G_Reaper]

41 minutes ago, Andyww said:

Areas such as under door seals, edges etc might show signs of previous paint. Problem is, primer will show as white.

What would be a real giveaway is if they didnt bother to repaint the under-bonnet area or some such.

Also does the bonnet, which is an HC one, exactly match the paint on the rest of the car?

On and of course check the paint code on the VIN plate!

Please bare in mind Lotus are car builders not your local paint shop. MPW & NCL had NO overspray etc. etc. the only evidence of their previous colours were the paint chips.

The Copper Fire car at Deezer is OPW654W and is a standard dry sump Turbo as per its press demo use when it was white. I have found no evidence this car had the engine swapped for a N/A. NCL did have a N/A engine fitted as I found when I had access to it in the early 1990s. The Deezer car is NOT NCL 10958 pre production prototype.NCL is privately owned in the middle east somewhere. The White car could be interesting as this car may have a N/A engine fitted as per the car sold by a Lotus dealer in the mid 80s stating it had connections with the Bond film. The advert stated the car was Turbo spec with a N/A engine fitted this car was only a promotional tool after filming that is its only connection to the film. See my post on another thread about the FYEO Bond cars.

[Lotusfab]

I’m not sure they will let me get anywhere near it, but I’ll ask and give it a go. Can’t see them opening the bonnet or even the doors. But I’ll ask. Bibs can the Lotus Forums assist to get me some access, may be we have some contacts that could help? This is all of great interest, all we need is a contact at the museum. I’ve tried emailing and calling within no luck. They haven’t answered the phone yet!

I’m taking the leather sample I have and a piece of my car to check the colour. Fingers crossed!

My next problem is there are two Deezer museums. One in Fort Lauderdale and the other in Miami. Have emailed them to find out which one has the Bond car!

Not holding my breath I may have to go to both!

[Lotusfab]

Mike,

I’ve lost track of all these cars. Please confirm the Copper Fire car in the Deezer museum is the one we see on screen in the film?

[stephenwhyte]

You’re maybe already planning on doing it Fabian, but I’d make a folder up of progress so far to show someone with influence at the museum - I would think that together with the pieces you mentioned you’re taking, would be enough for anyone to think they should help you. That and the fact if they know you’re from the UK, they’ll realist it’s unlikely you’ll be back every week for more and more reference inspections. A couple of photos of your S1 as the completed article, should also help to have them easily complying I’d think

[Andyww]

1 hour ago, G_Reaper said:

Please bare in mind Lotus are car builders not your local paint shop. MPW & NCL had NO overspray etc. etc. the only evidence of their previous colours were the paint chips.

 

I know but in this case the cars would have been on a tight timescale and they would have known that the colour change was only for filming purposes. Agree that they likely would have done a proper job but you never know. Are you sure about NCL as in some pictures it looks like there is white showing at the edge of the trim below the rear side window.

[Andyww]

Specifically this picture. Looks like some white showing through in various places. Although could be primer I suppose.

 

 

[Lotusfab]

Good news Chaps, I have just had a reply from the Deezer Museum. The car is in the Miami location. I have the name of a manager and they have said they will accompany me so that I can get a real good look at the car! 

So Im looking for paint chips

what engine it's got, that might be tricky as they won't want to open the boot due skis. There may be an engine cover underneath else I could have a look for a Wastegate? 

Any other info? I plan on asking them to open it.

Steve I like your idea and will make something up. Looks like I have them onside so will see what I can do when I get there! Exciting stuff! 

[G_Reaper]

3 hours ago, Andyww said:

I know but in this case the cars would have been on a tight timescale and they would have known that the colour change was only for filming purposes. Agree that they likely would have done a proper job but you never know. Are you sure about NCL as in some pictures it looks like there is white showing at the edge of the trim below the rear side window.

Andy 100% certain about NCL. I have owned 2 Lotus prepared show cars they give extra attention to promotional opportunities hence the cars had "motor show" written on the inside of all panels. The white could easily be trapped polish. If anything very careful attention to detail would have been taken on these cars so at no angle would they show poor workmanship or differences between cars. Is that photo NCL?? The Deezer car was the car used at most promo events after filming. However they did forget to fit "Styled by G" badges on the Deezer car yet NCL had them fitted.

Hence in answer to your question Fabian the car actually seen in the film has "Styled by G" badges so I am fairly confident the Deezer car was not used for the Copper Fire shots but was a standby however which car was used for the white car shots earlier in the film is unknown. The colour on the Deezer car and NCL should be exactly the same as they were prepared at the same time.

Buddsy the vins on the Deezer cars are 10930 Copper 10929 White i believe this is documented with photos on the Bond car thread.

 

Cheers Mike

[Andyww]

18 minutes ago, Buddsy said:

Could you email and ask the contact for the vin. He might give it to you so we can see what it was/is?

 

buddsy

 

[Andyww]

19 minutes ago, G_Reaper said:

 If anything very careful attention to detail would have been taken on these cars so at no angle would they show poor workmanship or differences between cars.

But thats not a show-grade car. Just by looking at the small area of the picture:

Door seal mangled

End of door faded/missing paint

End of door bolt heads/washers not black

Latch corroded

Paint rubbed off on edge of sill.

Black around rear side window has bits missing.

Pedal paint all worn off.

The leather is of course perfect as it was retrimmed. It looks like a hastily-retrimmed and repainted car which didnt have any other prep work done. Probably NCL. They havent bothered to repaint the satin black areas at all.

[Andyww]

Fabian also check if either or both have roof stereos!

It should easily be possible to see turbo/na from underneath rear by the exhaust layout.

[G_Reaper]

2 hours ago, Andyww said:

But thats not a show-grade car. Just by looking at the small area of the picture:

Door seal mangled

End of door faded/missing paint

End of door bolt heads/washers not black

Latch corroded

Paint rubbed off on edge of sill.

Black around rear side window has bits missing.

Pedal paint all worn off.

The leather is of course perfect as it was retrimmed. It looks like a hastily-retrimmed and repainted car which didnt have any other prep work done. Probably NCL. They havent bothered to repaint the satin black areas at all.

That photo is after it has been used not straight out of the Lotus factory. It looks in pretty good condition for a used car.

These cars after filming would be used as promo tools the same as show cars so need to show the best of Lotus. I can vouch for NCL as I had full access to the car for a couple of hours in 1991 although it had signs of use and had quite a few miles on the clock as it had been privately owned for a number of years and used prior to Dr Nelson purchasing it for his collection. It certainly did not look like a rushed thrown together in a hurry prop as you suggest, I can also say my car MPW71V was extremely well finished NO overspray etc.

I don't think that photo is NCL. The car used in the film has "Styled by G" badges NCL has these fitted. The car in the film can clearly be seen on the footage has all the door bolts covered in black paint. As previously stated 10930 was used for most of the promo work after the film thus all the cars will have signs of use and it must be pointed out paint etc can flake off at any time when in use.

 

Cheers Mike  

Edited December 21, 2017 by G_Reaper2

[G_Reaper]

Some good photos of NCL before it was sold.

http://www.gettyimages.ch/fotos/for-your-eyes-only---film?mediatype=photography&page=2&phrase=for your eyes only - film&sort=mostpopular#license

[Andyww]

17 minutes ago, G_Reaper said:

Some good photos of NCL before it was sold.

 

Thats not the same car as it has a black steering wheel. 

The stills from the movie of the car in front of the hotel do show the end of the door in perfect condition, all satin black. So definitely 2 different cars here. As expected of course. The car in the above picture must be the Dezer car.

But what "use" would the car have had? Both cars were driven straight from the factory to Cortina.

[Dan E]

i enjoyed a lot of them photos, missed the lotus 

[stephenwhyte]

Think we were supposed to stick to page 2 Dan......however I can confirm page 3 stood up to its reputation!

[jonroberts]

37 minutes ago, G_Reaper said:

Some good photos of NCL before it was sold.

http://www.gettyimages.ch/fotos/for-your-eyes-only---film?mediatype=photography&page=2&phrase=for your eyes only - film&sort=mostpopular#license

Yes, some good ones of the car too. 

[Andyww]

Some of those ladies look they have also been resprayed from white to copper fire

 

[G_Reaper]

37 minutes ago, Andyww said:

Thats not the same car as it has a black steering wheel. 

The stills from the movie of the car in front of the hotel do show the end of the door in perfect condition, all satin black. So definitely 2 different cars here. As expected of course. The car in the above picture must be the Dezer car.

But what "use" would the car have had? Both cars were driven straight from the factory to Cortina.

The images on the link are 10958 Pre prod 1 NCL just before being auctioned as such. I believe this was the time when Cars of the Stars venture of a 2nd museum site was failing so cash was needed.

OPW654W 10930 had all the promo stickers applied on its return from filming NCL never had these stickers applied.

MPW is pictured outside the front of the factory with a biscuit coloured hide steering wheel, however when I bought if DIRECT from Lotus it had a black steering wheel. A steering wheel change does not a different car make ;-) the light coloured steering wheels will show wear very quickly and are easily replaced.

The cars as can be seen on the threads on this forum are pictured at various events, some events linked to the film and some not directly linked to the film. I have a test report where a road tester states he is driving the Copper Fire Bond car around the Hethel test track for some fast laps and the photo shows the car with empty ski racks. Lotus used to get their moneys worth out of PR opportunities back in those days.

 

Edited December 21, 2017 by G_Reaper2

[Andyww]

The picture with Carole Bouquet looks very much the Dezer car, the museum pictures also show the whiteness on the edges of the black trim. I would bet if they let Fabian open the doors they would have the tatty satin black. 

I had always assumed that picture was taken on the movie set but I suppose that could be a false assumption.

I am sure its been mentioned somewhere already but the white Dezer car is all over the place, missing side decals and the nose badge and decal in the wrong place. That might confirm Mikes conclusion on the Bond Car thread that the white Dezer car was prepared specially for show purposes after the movie.

[G_Reaper]

You have also got to remember the white car was in private ownership until approx 1997 hence it lost its stripes etc. Peter Nelson will have bought it for a  low price hoping to return it to its former glory. The white promo car is one of 2 chassis numbers all I need is for Buddsy to confirm the reg of 10929 which I am confident is OPW664W not OPW667W (OPW667W I suspect came to a sticky end in the early 80s and was converted to BBS 5 Stud).

Also studying photos of 10930 OPW654W 80s photos the 007 decals on the doors are different to current decals and it had james Bond written on the nose above the Lotus badge. Something has happened which has required this car to need some restoration including the HC bonnet so you cannot treat this car as being in the condition as it left Lotus after its original re birth to Copper fire.

Cheers Mike

[ANDYR]

Hello all.  Fabain, I'm looking forward to hearing about the visit.  If work allows I might be in Florida end of Feb, but it's a long shot in the hands of others... . 

Max500 tells me that he put his hands on the original FYEO car back in the day and the ski racks were made of balsa wood and sprayed.  Remember. It's a prop from nearly 30years ago.  Not a functioning rack.  For those still taking stimulus from creative endeavours, we're now on the CAD files.  My cousin and I are cutting out bandsaw cut prototypes following templates made on a CAD package.  Offering up the rack to the car and seeing how it looks.  As a final decision I'm screwing these racks into the body.  as long as the holes line up, they can be plugged neatly in the summer/not in use with plastic threaded fittings (like a number plate holder for example) or simple rubber plugs.  It's may car after all....  didn't like the thought of taking a bend at 50mph to see x2 sets of skis, racks from suction pumps ripping off the paint and end in the verge or worse, someone else.  So drilling and screwing is.  final material is 12mm polycarbonate and then a bespoke ordered aerosol can of matching paint.  should be good mid Jan...