Another Tyre Thread "New" Corsas

[RedViper]

I'm currently looking for some new tyres and debating whether to switch from Corsa's. I have just looked on the Pirelli website after reading last year that the Corsa derivative have been updated but it appears they have followed Michelin in that the new Corsa derivative tyre isn't actually something that will fit the Exige and is only available in 19 and 20".

It is even more confusing that there is a P Zero Corsa (which is new) and the P Zero Corsa System (in Exige sizes) which doesn't look to have been updated.

It is very frustrating the way the market seems to be going with bigger tyre sizes, tyre technology moves on so quick that the smaller tyre market is probably being left behind a bit.

Edited July 28, 2017 by RedViper

[MartynB]

I've found the glossy Pirelli website doesn't map that well onto reality when it comes to sizes etc. It may be that Pirelli are getting out of the non-supercar market, but I'd wait and see what actually comes through the supply chain. In the meantime, maybe it's a chance to try a set of Cup 2s?

[Arun_D]

For info, the Exige tyres follows Pirelli's Corsa System, which essentially combines the directional tread pattern Corsa on the front, and the asymmetric design on the rear. Additionally, as you know the Exige application has its own compound on an 'LS' sidewall stamping.

As Martyn says, it's a good opportunity to try something different.

[550superfast]

Do you want them for road or track or both?

[RedViper]

I already have a second set of wheels with Trofeos (non R) on but they very rarely get used. I have thought about just selling the extra wheels and plumbing for Cup 2's for year round. My wife also uses the car though and I don't want her to feel uncomfortable if she ends up driving it when weather is bad. We has A048s on our S2 and she didn't like that at all in wet so I swapped them for R1Rs.

So assuming I stick with two sets of wheels then the ones im replacing now will be used 100% on road and 95% time car is used.

2 hours ago, Arun_D said:

For info, the Exige tyres follows Pirelli's Corsa System, which essentially combines the directional tread pattern Corsa on the front, and the asymmetric design on the rear. Additionally, as you know the Exige application has its own compound on an 'LS' sidewall stamping.

As Martyn says, it's a good opportunity to try something different.

yeah, to be honest I have been happy with the Corsas although they do wear pretty quick. I just think the technology in those tyres is 3+ years old now and Michelin and Pirelli are offering new tyres/compounds just not in our sizes and its a bit frustrating. im sure the PS4S and the updated non 'system' corsas will be better?

Edited July 28, 2017 by RedViper

[Arun_D]

Based on the above I'd give the PS4s a try.

[RedViper]

18 minutes ago, Arun_D said:

Based on the above I'd give the PS4s a try.

I think that sounds like a winner to me too, last question is whether to go for 215/45 fronts or 205/45?

[550superfast]

3 hours ago, RedViper said:

I think that sounds like a winner to me too, last question is whether to go for 215/45 fronts or 205/45?

I'm using PS4 for road and wet track days in 215/45, very happy with them and good value too. It does raise the ride height a bit at the front.

[NANO]

Personnaly ... I have not yet mounted front tires 215 / 45 as I always have a certain "thought / fear" of having problems with the dashboard light that is constantly lit up after rolling (more than a few millimeters) compared to the original 205 / 45 ...

[550superfast]

23 hours ago, NANO said:

Personnaly ... I have not yet mounted front tires 215 / 45 as I always have a certain "thought / fear" of having problems with the dashboard light that is constantly lit up after rolling (more than a few millimeters) compared to the original 205 / 45 ...

not lights on here!

[swanny71]

I've been on PS4's (standard sizes) for a while now, very happy and definately prefer them to the Corsa's.

Steering is less fidgety but seems to have a more delicate feel, more grip, better ride and less road noise. Road use only so far but seem to be perfect for my needs.

[SamoL]

I'm on my 4th set of PS4s in standard sizes. More camber will be much more helpful than raising the front to get a 1cm wider tyre. Try them. I'm sure you'll like them. The only tyre I know I like on my Elise, but haven't tested on Exige is Advan AD08R. The reason I am hesitating is because there is nothing wrong with PS4 and I know no other tyre will last so long (almost double compared to Corsas). Unfortunately PS4 doesn't come in Elise sizes.

Best regards

Samo

[rallyesax]

Are you talking about PS4 or PS4S ?

[SamoL]

2 minutes ago, rallyesax said:

Are you talking about PS4 or PS4S ?

PS4S are not available in Exige sizes. They don't make them for 17" nor 18" wheels. I'm also not sure there is a really big difference between these two tyres, except in sizes and price points. Thread pattern is the same. And as they don't come in same sizes it's really difficult to compare them.

[MartynB]

Got to be PS4, PS4S is only in the larger sizes. So you're OK, but we're not 

[RedViper]

4 hours ago, SamoL said:

I'm on my 4th set of PS4s in standard sizes. More camber will be much more helpful than raising the front to get a 1cm wider tyre. Try them. I'm sure you'll like them. The only tyre I know I like on my Elise, but haven't tested on Exige is Advan AD08R. The reason I am hesitating is because there is nothing wrong with PS4 and I know no other tyre will last so long (almost double compared to Corsas). Unfortunately PS4 doesn't come in Elise sizes.

Best regards

Samo

Im already running more camber -1F / -1.75R. Will probably go for more in front next time the geo is checked which I normally have done once a year.

Im going to go for the PS4 probably with 215 fronts based on all that's been said here thanks everyone

On ‎28‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 17:15, 550superfast said:

 It does raise the ride height a bit at the front.

Enough to clear a pheasant? already on splitter #2 after a pheasant decided to kamikaze itself

[rallyesax]

5 hours ago, SamoL said:

PS4S are not available in Exige sizes. They don't make them for 17" nor 18" wheels. I'm also not sure there is a really big difference between these two tyres, except in sizes and price points. Thread pattern is the same. And as they don't come in same sizes it's really difficult to compare them.

Yes i know but as you wrote down that PS4 did not exist in Elise sizes I was surprised. I thought only PS4S was not matching Elise and of course Exige as we already mentionned. Didn't know the problem for the Elise.

Actualy, PS4 and PS4S are quite significantly different in terms of technology and compound... The pattern look quite the same of course because we need to have some family link in between our sport tire family.

[SamoL]

14 hours ago, rallyesax said:

Actualy, PS4 and PS4S are quite significantly different in terms of technology and compound... The pattern look quite the same of course because we need to have some family link in between our sport tire family.

That's interesting. Is there a good comparison of compounds and technologies used available somewhere on the internet?

[SamoL]

One more thing you should consider when you decide about the front tyres for your Exige: in 205/45R17 PS4 has fuel efficiency E. In 215/45R17 it has C. Which means that most probably 205/45R17 is softer. And you get enough thread life to match the rears. So wider tyre might not necessarily mean more grip.

http://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/michelin-pilot-sport-4

[RedViper]

42 minutes ago, SamoL said:

One more thing you should consider when you decide about the front tyres for your Exige: in 205/45R17 PS4 has fuel efficiency E. In 215/45R17 it has C. Which means that most probably 205/45R17 is softer. And you get enough thread life to match the rears. So wider tyre might not necessarily mean more grip.

http://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/michelin-pilot-sport-4

Maybe I am being naïve but surely every PS4 tyre is made of same compound?

[Bibs]

@rallyesax would know for sure

[rallyesax]

Every PS4 RT tires (replacement market) use the same compound. But OE tires do not . So if you buy Audi or BMW spec tires, they will probably have different compound than RT model in order to suite the car among a long list of other differences. In this case of course Rolling Resistance values are impacted. And for different sizes of the same tire, RR is impacted as well because the contact patch on the ground is different (size,shape,etc...) and the thickness of some components inside might be different at different places...

 

Regarding PS4 vs PS4S of course the are different. The 4S has a bicompound summit with different compound from a PS4. The inside uses Aramid material for a belt that you wont find in PS4. And a long list of differencies.... Their own lateral and longitudinal rigidity is very different.

Simply, they are not made for the same cars  as a M3 is quite different from a 330i. Family similarities and coherency but a Gap in performances.

Edited August 2, 2017 by rallyesax

[RedViper]

3 hours ago, rallyesax said:

Every PS4 RT tires (replacement market) use the same compound. But OE tires do not . So if you buy Audi or BMW spec tires, they will probably have different compound than RT model in order to suite the car among a long list of other differences. In this case of course Rolling Resistance values are impacted. And for different sizes of the same tire, RR is impacted as well because the contact patch on the ground is different (size,shape,etc...) and the thickness of some components inside might be different at different places...

 

Regarding PS4 vs PS4S of course the are different. The 4S has a bicompound summit with different compound from a PS4. The inside uses Aramid material for a belt that you wont find in PS4. And a long list of differencies.... Their own lateral and longitudinal rigidity is very different.

Simply, they are not made for the same cars  as a M3 is quite different from a 330i. Family similarities and coherency but a Gap in performances.

Thanks for the detailed response.

please can you tell me why these two tyres have different rolling resistance then when they are not OE specific. I think this is what Samo was referring to

 

[rallyesax]

I do know exactly what causes the Gap between those two precise tires, I would need to see their construction sheet to tell you and Im in holidays 

But as they are not the same sizes, it's easy to guess that the contact patch size is different. It can only be that and some product thickness differences inside to give the good match related to the size and speed/load index of each tire

[SamoL]

On 8/2/2017 at 11:18, rallyesax said:

The inside uses Aramid material for a belt that you wont find in PS4. And a long list of differencies.... Their own lateral and longitudinal rigidity is very different.

Looking at Michelin's web site it is quite difficult to figure out how these two tyres are different in construction. If there is no Aramid in PS4, then Michelin shouldn't advertise that Aramid is used in PS4.

This text: "Technology: a hybrid belt of Aramid and Nylon ensures optimum transmission of steering instructions onto the road" can be found on this web page: http://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/michelin-pilot-sport-4

Edited August 3, 2017 by SamoL