Nitron 3-way

[W31SSN]

As anyone had any experience with the Nitron 3-way system for track days and minimal road use (driving to and from circuits)?

[LF1]

Yup. We put them on our LF1 night and day on track. However, the standard GEO was very different on the original V6 to that on the 350 - you should have more negative camber out of the box which was one of the big things we were trying to resolve (and associated tyre shoulder wear).

They made the road feel better (I'd adjust using the remote reservoirs for road/ring use), they seemed noisier on the road but the ride was better, even on really bad surfaces.

I think the ideal spec V6 for cost/performance value right now is probably the 350 with suspension upgraded to Nitron 3way. @Randy at Hoffmans did our install and setup, I believe we had a custom build from Nitron that @Pat@Hofmanns was involved in.

Our overall ride height was dropped and rake introduced, the rear was similar height to the V6 Cup, but front about 5mm lower. This was a little inconvenient on the road as my splitter took a hammering. My understanding is the 3 way are identical to the 2 way installed on the V6 Cup with one of the adjustments in a fixed position. The Cup owners also swear by the setup - however I think mine was a little more agressive and I'd probably tone it down a little to start if I were to do it over.

[W31SSN]

@LF1  Great feedback, thank you.  Looking to pair it with a CupR front splitter and the big Eltech rear wing.

[TheKevlarKid]

Speak to Dave at Seriously Lotus, he's been developing  3-way nitrons on his V6 cup for exactly what you want, track and the drive to it..

And he's also on with a larger front splitter...

[Seriouslylotus]

42 minutes ago, TheKevlarKid said:

Speak to Dave at Seriously Lotus, he's been developing  3-way nitrons on his V6 cup for exactly what you want, track and the drive to it..

And he's also on with a larger front splitter...

Thanks Gav

Yes we have done literally thousands of road miles testing various valve/shim stacks with 3 way Nitrons, spring rates etc , We have also used the same set on track and come up with quite a nice set up. We also had Nitron put them on the dyno and then make a set of one-ways that are as close as possible on the mid point settings. These one ways are nice on the road, we will be at Croft next Wednesday to dial in a track set up.

The nice side effect of all the development is we can now pre set the 1 way and 3 way for the 130/136 ride heights as well as the recommended damper settings, so they are as close as its possible to get to a bolt on and go solution

Spring rates make quite a difference and the result were a little  surprising

Happy to chat with anyone that is even remotely interested...........

[Seriouslylotus]

2 hours ago, LF1 said:

I think the ideal spec V6 for cost/performance value right now is probably the 350 with suspension upgraded to Nitron 3way.

 My understanding is the 3 way are identical to the 2 way installed on the V6 Cup with one of the adjustments in a fixed position. The Cup owners also swear by the setup - however I think mine was a little more agressive and I'd probably tone it down a little to start if I were to do it over.

I could not believe the difference between the Lotus/Nitron 2 ways and the Proper Nitron 3 ways. Lotus have Nitron restrict the adjustment so the clicks on the 2 ways do about half that of the 3 ways. I also found the spring rates selected by Lotus on the two ways to be to firm at the rear on the raod and to soft on track at the front. The Lotus Nitrons use a 40mm front damper and a 46mm rear damper. The 3 way nitrons use a 46mm damper front and rear. So totally different animals so to speak!

Like I said happy to chat a length to any one interested. Far to much info and data to type on here...............

 

[LF1]

I'd heard the same when we made the decision to go 3 way over 2, but I did not want to annoy any cup owners by saying so here

On a similar topic but slightly off... the one way Nitrons you stock @Seriouslylotus for the Elise S3 Cup - how do they compare to the factory Nitron setup for the R? One way is necessary for production class regulations.

[Bravo73]

1 hour ago, W31SSN said:

@LF1  Great feedback, thank you.  Looking to pair it with a CupR front splitter and the big Eltech rear wing.

You might also want to contact @alias23. He has already been down a similar path. 

[Ishy]

Having been a little unhappy with my 3ways when first fitted (Nitron had just had the info provided to them by Lotus I believe)

Dave at Seriously Lotus has spent considerable time/effort, having a multitude of changes made to them. I've driven literally thousands of miles both road & track to get the setup right (I'm really picky)

Finally I have to say they are incredible far better than stock on road & much better balance on track.

As an alternative for your application with less road miles than me, I'd up the spring rates to the ones on Dave's car, same balance as mine but stiffer all round giving better performance on track but still compliant enough for traveling to track & back. Not saying I'd be happy driving it to the Alps & back though, if that's your thing you'd need the same springs as me....

 

[alias23]

3 hours ago, Bravo73 said:

You might also want to contact @alias23. He has already been down a similar path. 

 I guess I should get round to writing a little and updating my build thread about the new Eltech wing  

[DJW]

Ooooh I like that wing !

[Randy]

Just a quick note about our Nitron setups...

I've been working with Nitron for well over a decade now fine tuning their dampers.  We have always been the fastest Lotus out there on the race track and the damper tuning has been an integral part of that.  Other people have dabbled with it but we have tested literally hundreds of different valving permutations against the stop watch and on the road - nobody else out there has done anywhere near the volume of work we have done.  The 3-way Exige setup uses a derivative of the damper tune developed on my own race car and uses a substantially different internal setup to the stock Nitron including a different piston design (Dave G also uses this piston - I steered him that way to help him with his setup but he runs his own valving) as well as valving to my specification.

Tom had our first version of the V6 damper tune and we have further developed it since then and I actually spent a day at Nitron last week testing our latest evolution.  We don't have a 'one size fits all' setup though and I tune each set of dampers to suit the customers requirements but starting from baseline setups which I know work.

If anyone wants any help/advice on Nitron feel free to drop me a line @ Hofmanns.

[Seriouslylotus]

2 hours ago, Randy said:

Just a quick note about our Nitron setups...

I've been working with Nitron for well over a decade now fine tuning their dampers.  We have always been the fastest Lotus out there on the race track and the damper tuning has been an integral part of that.  Other people have dabbled with it but we have tested literally hundreds of different valving permutations against the stop watch and on the road - nobody else out there has done anywhere near the volume of work we have done.  The 3-way Exige setup uses a derivative of the damper tune developed on my own race car and uses a substantially different internal setup to the stock Nitron including a different piston design (Dave G also uses this piston - I steered him that way to help him with his setup but he runs his own valving) as well as valving to my specification.

Tom had our first version of the V6 damper tune and we have further developed it since then and I actually spent a day at Nitron last week testing our latest evolution.  We don't have a 'one size fits all' setup though and I tune each set of dampers to suit the customers requirements but starting from baseline setups which I know work.

If anyone wants any help/advice on Nitron feel free to drop me a line @ Hofmanns.

Sorry Chris, No I don't use that piston, it was terrible for road use!! Yes ok on track

I have also been involved with Nitron but only since they started in a shed in Guys back garden

The development I have done with the V6 includes about 5000 miles of road trips around Europe, (Three different cars) and literally hundreds of laps at various circuits, again on 3 different V6 Exiges. Very few people race so I have concentrated on road manners and track day set ups, sure you will agree that's about 99% of V6 owners....

[Randy]

Interesting you are back on that piston.  Trouble is, that piston itself generates too much damping force so you end up with a poxy shim stack and that murders the body control.  Yes, you have a small seat pressure from the thin shim stack which will help aim small bump compliance but there are other ways of improving that without resorting to a compromises on the piston.  On the single ways there are some modifications I make to the pistons themselves to improve small bump compliance on the road and on the three way there is another modification I make to a separate part to achieve the same result.  It took me two years of testing before I was even comfortable to sell the 46mm kits as with the stock piston they couldn't match the performance of the old 40mm's although now I've got them very well nailed down.  

[RedViper]

I guess what you are both saying is that if you want some Nitrons don't buy bog standard Nitrons, buy either one of your kits

[Trevsked]

For an average guy like me that does the odd track day but likes something more focuses towards track than road, are the Lotus one way Nitrons a good choice?

 

Trevor.

[Ishy]

2 hours ago, Trevsked said:

For an average guy like me that does the odd track day but likes something more focuses towards track than road, are the Lotus one way Nitrons a good choice?

 

Trevor.

Not in my opinion!

No doubt you have heard all the tales of massive understeer... well it doesn't have to be that way.

[Trevsked]

I didn't feel I suffered with under steer in my V6 Cup and when I tried the 250 Cup at Castle Combe that didn't seem to under steer either. Perhaps I'm not going fast enough.

 

Trevor.

[LF1]

I never felt the V6 suffered from understeer - like Trevor says I probably was not pushing it enough. 

The Elise Cup on the other hand I am finding does - but I am pushing more these days. A suspension upgrade is definitely the next upgrade on that. 

[alias23]

14 hours ago, Trevsked said:

For an average guy like me that does the odd track day but likes something more focuses towards track than road, are the Lotus one way Nitrons a good choice?

 

Trevor.

I've had one way for a while and don't seem to be doing too bad on track ?

That said if you're doing quite a bit of track work say 10-12 a year then yes 3-way is the way to go.

[Trevsked]

As with all these things personal taste and driving style play huge parts in what's right for any particular driver. I'll crack on with the standard suspension for a few track days and see how I get on first. Thanks for your input fellas.

 

Trevor.

[Randy]

10 hours ago, alias23 said:

I've had one way for a while and don't seem to be doing too bad on track ?

That said if you're doing quite a bit of track work say 10-12 a year then yes 3-way is the way to go.

One ways are a great choice, probably 98% of the dampers we sell are one way as they are the right choice for most people.  With three way its nice to have the control over the slow bump which allows you to adjust balance but TBO most people wouldn't know what to do with it anyway.

[alias23]

14 hours ago, Randy said:

One ways are a great choice, probably 98% of the dampers we sell are one way as they are the right choice for most people.  With three way its nice to have the control over the slow bump which allows you to adjust balance but TBO most people wouldn't know what to do with it anyway.

I'm now at the stage of needing 3-Way to be fair... ?

On 05/08/2017 at 08:52, Trevsked said:

I'll crack on with the standard suspension for a few track days and see how I get on first. Thanks for your input fellas.

I would suggest getting your car a decent geo before going on track. This will make a big difference as stock geo isn't great on track hence people complain of major understeer.

[chumaxa]

My car has got the 3 ways now, -10mm height overall, do not remember the precise numbers, + rake, bit more camber at the front, I can not say what was best, but the car is just way more stable, on B road, understeer has disapeared ( I had some on the road / curborough). 

What do you guys run has as bump and rebound ? 

[Seriouslylotus]

1 hour ago, chumaxa said:

My car has got the 3 ways now, -10mm height overall, do not remember the precise numbers, + rake, bit more camber at the front, I can not say what was best, but the car is just way more stable, on B road, understeer has disapeared ( I had some on the road / curborough). 

What do you guys run has as bump and rebound ? 

Depends on springs and what valving you are using......

More info needed please....